Investing in a proprietary homebrew ecosystem?

[McKnuckle]

Don't know where you live, but brewing outside is not always fun or even possible. Just keep that in mind. I started with propane and 3 vessels. Satisfies the tough guy caveman instinct to brew with flame, sure, but try running out of gas mid-brew. Or getting stung by bees that won't stop dive-bombing your wort. Or frozen hoses in the winter. Screw that!

So I moved to induction years ago, then added an all-in-one system to augment my options. Electric and indoors, all the way!

 

[KookyBrewsky]

Don't know where you live, but brewing outside is not always fun or even possible. Just keep that in mind. I started with propane and 3 vessels. Satisfies the tough guy caveman instinct to brew with flame, sure, but try running out of gas mid-brew. Or getting stung by bees that won't stop dive-bombing your wort. Or frozen hoses in the winter. Screw that!

So I moved to induction years ago, then added an all-in-one system to augment my options. Electric and indoors, all the way!

I live in FL currently. Our stove is flat top electric and can barely bring 2.5 gallons of wort to a boil. It's simply not an option if I want to move onto BIAB. I'll use your bad experiences as a teacher and keep two things of propane on hand. We don't really worry about bees here, our backyard is 75% butterflies since I raised/hatch them and 25% various lizards that eat everything else. These new lizards are very obnoxious though that started popping up about a year ago. Apparently they hitched long rides underneath peoples cars from up north and started breeding down here. I've seen them as large as a foot+ in length, they look like huge bearded dragons.

An all-in-one would be great but they're expensive for a noob. The eControllers from say, Ss Brewtech are almost $1,000 alone. Any cheaper recommendations? I am not opposed to propane nor all-in-ones as our backyard as previously stated is relatively calm for brewing.

How about this, if you were me, what would you do? I'm not looking to spend $3,000 for an ultra-advanced setup, but I'd have no problem dropping $1,000 or so on something that'll last me for years to come and not worry about upgrading it in any sort of way.

My current bottleneck is our electric stove. I need a propane burner or an all-in-one just to do BIAB due to the increased wort volume.

 

[Gduck]

Or getting stung by bees that won't stop dive-bombing your wort. Or frozen hoses in the winter. Screw that!

So I moved to induction years ago, then added an all-in-one system to augment my options. Electric and indoors, all the way!

I get some yellow jackets that buzz around in the summer, but fortunately never had any give me real trouble (other than occasionally fishing one out of the wort). But the frozen hoses thing, ugh, yeah that sucks. Pretty much halted my brewing from December to February. Plus cleaning up when that wind is whipping and it’s below freezing sucks. Don’t have any kind of sink in my garage so I’m standing outside with the hose like an idiot. Last week put in my order for an Anvil Foundry, and I’ll be excited for when it finally ships!

 

[McKnuckle]

Kooky, "if I were you" I would probably get an Anvil Foundry with pump kit for $479 and a 220V line to run it. I would spend the rest of the dough on a keezer and a couple of kegs with all the required accouterments.

Alternately, you could DIY an 8-10 gallon kettle with a pickup tube, ball valve, and a made to fit Wilser bag. Couple that with an Avantco IC3500 (220V) induction cooktop and you're all set. Buy an Anvil pump later if you want to experiment with recirculation.

I'd get one extra keg to use as a fermenter, along with a floating dip tube and a spunding valve. Ferment 4.5 gallon batches in that bad boy, either under pressure, with spunding, or just a simple blow-off (all at my whim of course!).

Alternately, instead of fermenting in kegs, I really like the $130 Anvil stainless fermenter. It has everything you need and nothing you don't. Can you DIY a stainless fermenter with a sealing lid, airlock port, and a rotating spigot? Yes... but this one is easy to buy.

Hey, you asked. I know it's overwhelming and there are so many opinions to consider.

 

[eric19312]

good advice in here. Starting out many brewers focus most of their attention on making wort. Making beer actually involves three steps...making wort, fermenting the wort to get beer, and packaging that beer for consumption. For $1000 I can get you from beginner to advanced on one of those areas but not all three. And to me it is silly to be advanced on only one.

Here is what I'd do

Making Wort: single vessel BIAB on propane burner.

• Get a 15 gallon stainless steel kettle. Either get one with a spigot or add a spigot. Avoid one with a thermometer as it will be a PITA with the bag. You can find one that comes with a burner or buy the burner separately. Like you said get a spare tank.
• If you do your own spigot I like the weldless bulkheads @Bobby_M sells at BrewHardware.com and have used tons of his fittings over the years.
• Get a nice BIAB bag from @wilserbrewer and a pully system from him too.
• You are also going to want a decent chiller. Lots of cool choices there I wish I hadn't settled on a 50' copper IC when I did and spent the extra on a Jaded but this thing does get the job done.
• Pump is nice to have but I think you can add that later.

Fermenting Beer

• Fermentor - those Anvil brew buckets look like a decent deal and will last. You can also go with plastic carboys, plastic conicals, spiedel tanks. Lots of good options. On your budget not looking at steel conicals or unitanks. I believe fermenting in kegs is good choice too lots of people that try it never look back. I'd lean in direction of something that can handle at least a couple PSI of pressure to enable pressure transfers to kegs. I do think you will want at least 2 so even Anvil will take a bite out of your budget.
• Fermentation temperature control. A used fridge or chest freezer might be close to free and a $25 Inkbird dual stage temperature controller. Cheap heat source.
• Yeast management - nice to have stir plate and flask set. Up to you I am happy with dry yeast.
• Oxygen - nice to have lots don't bother but I like mine.

Packaging and Serving

• If you like the process you will like it more and probably stick with it much longer if you get into kegging.
• Chest freezer with collar or score a used fridge and build kegerator
• Regulator
• Kegs
• CO2 bottle
• Lines/Shanks/manifold

One last thought - of these three areas, I believe the quality of the beer you make will be impacted most by the fermenting process, then by the quality of your packaging process, and lastly by the quality of your wort production process. Making wort is a lot of fun and feels the most like brewing but IMO is just not as important contributor to quality of the final product as fermenting and packaging.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

If I got any of the all-in-one grain brewing kits, I'd likely just spend part of the $1,000 on a Grainfather but try and get it during a sale on a brewing site, say 10-15% off which isn't uncommon, leaving me $150 for the freezer and I'd need just a bit extra for the temp control and a recipe or two... I think fermenting in the plastic buckets is fine because the yeast basically solidifies on the bottom after three weeks and I've had no issues with them.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[McKnuckle]

I believe the quality of the beer you make will be impacted most by the fermenting process, then by the quality of your packaging process, and lastly by the quality of your wort production process. Making wort is a lot of fun and feels the most like brewing but IMO is just not as important contributor to quality of the final product as fermenting and packaging.

Brother Eric preaches TRUTH! Heed every word of this, grasshopper!

 

[Kharnynb]

A grainfather, or one of those customised cheaper "tea urn" biab systems are def. a good start and will keep you brewing for a long time.

I use a Bulldog brewer, which has served me well.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

A grainfather, or one of those customised cheaper "tea urn" biab systems are def. a good start and will keep you brewing for a long time.

I use a Bulldog brewer, which has served me well.

Bulldog looks pretty nice, they look similar. Prefer to support smaller companies if possible but Bulldog looks to be more of a UK product whereas the Grainfather is readily available here in the US.

I think a a big purpose of this thread has been just talking things out, saying foolish stuff and getting over it and then move on to the reasonable and more intelligent decisions... Like trying to get a Grainfather, chest freezer and temp controls for $1,000 or less

If I went with @eric19312 's advice, it'd probably end up costing a bit less with a more intricate knowledge of the equipment, although the Grainfather connectivity would be lost. It'd use no electricity save for the chest freezer, but if the lights ever go out I could resort back to my shoddy storage tub and a wet towel by using that propane setup...

Though getting a nice 15 gallon brew pot is a large chunk already with the false bottom. Even Igloo setups are not cheap. I do not want a crummy brew pot, that's one of my main desires from all of this. My brew pot was only enjoyable to use for 2 brews, then became a hassle, although it's ultra cheap and from a starter kit. You simply don't know certain things until you dip your toes in, no matter how much you read online.

Regarding kegging... Ignorance is bliss so far. I have no qualms with bottling, it's zen like for me, no real hassle since it's done so infrequently. I fill 4, cap 4, fill 4, cap 4, all my bottles are sanitized and drying before I start on that plastic rack thing. I've read most people that keg don't come back from it. Clean up is still as much of a hassle as on brew day with bottling though, but not bad.

 

[Bassman2003]

A lot of ways to go here. Grainfather's are solid. If cost is an issue then I would look at the Anvil foundry or the Mash & Boil. I went with a wine fridge instead of a chest freezer to save my back (it is elevated so easy to lift in and simple drain out) and to have internal temp controls. I agree with Eric on fermentation being the most important. Good luck in your search.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

A lot of ways to go here. Grainfather's are solid. If cost is an issue then I would look at the Anvil foundry or the Mash & Boil. I went with a wine fridge instead of a chest freezer to save my back (it is elevated so easy to lift in and simple drain out) and to have internal temp controls. I agree with Eric on fermentation being the most important. Good luck in your search.

Thanks, I think I’ve settled on that path, the final product may vary though. Anvil Foundry doesn’t seem to be available for a quite while, but I didn’t plan on making this purchase for a while anyway unless a great sale comes along. Virus affects it all :/

Anvil and Grainfather are my top two interests outside of BIAB, which I’d need to drop a fair chunk of change on anyway for a proper brew kettle. At that rate... who knows where I’ll end up.

What size / brand wine fridge?

 

[Bassman2003]

I have a GE but you would need to research as many do not have enough space on the inside for buckets or other fermenters. I say wine fridge because the wine versions often have the temperature range 39-65f rather than just a "fridge" which is meant to be cold.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

I have a GE but you would need to research as many do not have enough space on the inside for buckets or other fermenters. I say wine fridge because the wine versions often have the temperature range 39-65f rather than just a "fridge" which is meant to be cold.

I'd prefer a wine fridge with temp controls because a chest freezer with temp controls turns on and off constantly which I assume decreases the mean time between failures. I'll get what I can get though, locally.

 

[Jim R]

No matter which freezer or refrigerator I owned I would still buy an Inkbird or similar temperature controller. Then you have total control of the temperature, the allowed temperature range, the delay to keep the unit from switching on and off too frequently plus you can also control a heater with the same accuracy. It is a major upgrade to the refrigerators built in thermostat with total control (for $35).

Right now my Inkbird is set to maintain 65 degrees and gives a digital display in tenths of a degree. The refrigerator will turn on at 66 degrees (set at 1 degree variation) but will only run the refrigerator every 10 min max to prevent cycling too frequent. I find that as the yeast heats up the fermenter slowly during the day, it seems to run the refrigerator for about 10 min about twice a day to maintain 65 degrees in my basement. It is also set to turn on my heater at 64 degrees if needed. I can then easily program in a diacetyl rest by raising the temperature for a few days if I choose.

 

[McKnuckle]

Yeah, an Inkbird is not really optional for fermenting in a fridge or freezer. Not sure that point was clear before but it should be. Never use the temp controls on the appliance itself if you want any precision, not to mention the ability to mount a probe on the fermenter itself. And many fridges don't fit many fermenters. Always match the two with careful research.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

I get some yellow jackets that buzz around in the summer, but fortunately never had any give me real trouble (other than occasionally fishing one out of the wort). But the frozen hoses thing, ugh, yeah that sucks. Pretty much halted my brewing from December to February. Plus cleaning up when that wind is whipping and it’s below freezing sucks. Don’t have any kind of sink in my garage so I’m standing outside with the hose like an idiot. Last week put in my order for an Anvil Foundry, and I’ll be excited for when it finally ships!

What made you go with the Anvil Foundry? Their units won't be in until May potentially, which is around when I'd be willing to order one since the price is not as bad as I had imagined. The Anvil Foundry and Mash and Boil are my two choices. The Mash and Boil with pump is on sale for $350 which seems like an excellent deal, plus I have $20 in rewards points...

 

[McKnuckle]

A couple of things to note:

Anvil allows a 240V option for much faster heating. M&B is 110V only. It's gonna be slow.

Anvil temp controller is accurate to a degree or so. M&B has a 5 degree tolerance band (as a brewer of lagers and proponent of step mashes, that disqualifies it for me).

Check out the comparison chart on their own page. They waited a while to enter the market, and when they did, they tackled some of the weaknesses of competing systems.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

A couple of things to note:

Anvil allows a 240V option for much faster heating. M&B is 110V only. It's gonna be slow.

Anvil temp controller is accurate to a degree or so. M&B has a 5 degree tolerance band (as a brewer of lagers and proponent of step mashes, that disqualifies it for me).

Check out the comparison chart on their own page. They waited a while to enter the market, and when they did, they tackled some of the weaknesses of competing systems.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like I'll be waiting, only problem is the 220V seems preferable. I see people either deal with slower brews or buy this sort of heating rod, which I'd rather not do. I don't recall any 220V outlets in our house besides in the hot laundry room. Are there solutions to that other than having an electrician modifying our existing circuits? The Anvil does look quite nice.

Edit : step-up transformer? After inquiring on our house's circuitry... I'm not too electrically savvy.

 

[McKnuckle]

There aren't any hacks that I know about or which I'd accept as a homeowner (with a wife & kids to protect). So I had an electrician run a proper line to my work/brew room. Problem is, with larger batches you just need more power to have efficient heating. 110V is fine for 1-3 gallon batches, but for heating a lot more water it's tedious.

The Anvil at least has 110V standard, with the option to switch the plug and move up to 240V. Other units don't offer that flexibility.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

There aren't any hacks that I know about or which I'd accept as a homeowner (with a wife & kids to protect). So I had an electrician run a proper line to my work/brew room. Problem is, with larger batches you just need more power to have efficient heating. 110V is fine for 1-3 gallon batches, but for heating a lot more water it's tedious.

The Anvil at least has 110V standard, with the option to switch the plug and move up to 240V. Other units don't offer that flexibility.

Yes that's true, I see it's switchable. Worst case I just brew in the laundry room. I don't necessarily want to brew in my room anyway with my synth equipment in there. Guess I'll have to figure it out before they get back in stock which affords me some time

 

[eric19312]

This looks like a pretty good option if you are willing to spend $1k to make wort. Can do 10gal batches which I don't see as capability of other systems. Also looks pretty simple to operate and break down for cleaning. I mash (and then fly sparge) batches with 25-35 pounds of grain in same kettle he is using so don't doubt the claimed numbers on target gravity. This is double the max grain bill you can get from the all in ones mentioned above.

https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Wort-Hog-5-10-Gallon-BIAB-240V-269p3987.htm

 

[KookyBrewsky]

This looks like a pretty good option if you are willing to spend $1k to make wort. Can do 10gal batches which I don't see as capability of other systems. Also looks pretty simple to operate and break down for cleaning. I mash (and then fly sparge) batches with 25-35 pounds of grain in same kettle he is using so don't doubt the claimed numbers on target gravity. This is double the max grain bill you can get from the all in ones mentioned above.

https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Wort-Hog-5-10-Gallon-BIAB-240V-269p3987.htm

EBIAB looks pretty neat, Clawhammer was the first one I found. The only issue is the voltage and having to almost keep the lid on entirely during boil. I imagine it's not about letting steam out that we keep the lid off, but to not let condensation drip back in. That one looks to solve that problem though.

I really like the Anvil Foundry and it's likely the thing I'll splurge for when I want to/it's available.

 

[Gduck]

What made you go with the Anvil Foundry? Their units won't be in until May potentially, which is around when I'd be willing to order one since the price is not as bad as I had imagined. The Anvil Foundry and Mash and Boil are my two choices. The Mash and Boil with pump is on sale for $350 which seems like an excellent deal, plus I have $20 in rewards points...

Basically everyone noted why I’d go with the Anvil already. I also talked to the guys from Anvil at the last HomebrewCon and they kind of won me over. It just seemed the best option that fit within my budget.

Waiting a month or two to get it was the only thing that did make me waffle a bit, but I’ve got enough propane left for a couple more batches anyway so I’m not in a huge hurry.

I’m going to sadly be running it off 120 for awhile as that’s all I’ve got, and doing anything with the electrical in this house is sadly not within the budget for the foreseeable future. But hey, the slower times don’t bother me any. As I said in another thread, brewing is the time I get to hangout in my garage, futz around, and have a little quiet from the kids for a bit.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

Basically everyone noted why I’d go with the Anvil already. I also talked to the guys from Anvil at the last HomebrewCon and they kind of won me over. It just seemed the best option that fit within my budget.

Waiting a month or two to get it was the only thing that did make me waffle a bit, but I’ve got enough propane left for a couple more batches anyway so I’m not in a huge hurry.

I’m going to sadly be running it off 120 for awhile as that’s all I’ve got, and doing anything with the electrical in this house is sadly not within the budget for the foreseeable future. But hey, the slower times don’t bother me any. As I said in another thread, brewing is the time I get to hangout in my garage, futz around, and have a little quiet from the kids for a bit.

Yes that's no worry for me either. It's something I'd like to get fixed in the future but as long as 120V makes beer without causing any negatives outside of time spent (which isn't really a negative) I'm fine using it. homebrewing.org was my first site and also the one that sells StirStarters (which I like for their simplicity and lifetime warranty). It's my go-to but I've ordered a little from Northern Brewer. Anvil was the one that always caught my eye on that site, even moreso than the Grainfather but I didn't know too much at the time. Still, the Anvil is a very sleek looking system. Congrats.

I have one extract left and my first two brews will be drinkable in about one week. Then I will be on the perpetual path of planning my beer drinking around my beer brewing and vice versa!~

 

[KookyBrewsky]

After further consideration, I've determined that a propane-based BIAB is my route. It's a middle ground, between extract and all-grain, and will not be reliant on electricity. I'd actually love to brew outside since 90% of extract brewing has been in the house for me and it can be messy at times. It'd be nice to not care.

Is it reasonable to do 5 gallon BIAB batches? I take it I'll need a hoist of some sort?

 

[grampamark]

After further consideration, I've determined that a propane-based BIAB is my route. It's a middle ground, between extract and all-grain, and will not be reliant on electricity. I'd actually love to brew outside since 90% of extract brewing has been in the house for me and it can be messy at times. It'd be nice to not care.

Is it reasonable to do 5 gallon BIAB batches? I take it I'll need a hoist of some sort?

Lots of people do 5 gallon BIAB. Plan on at least a 10 gallon kettle to do full volume, no sparge, 5 gallon batches; a 15 gallon kettle would be better if you have any plans to do high gravity batches.

@wilserbrewer, one of the sponsors of this board, makes brewing bags and offers a small rope hoist with a locking mechanism. There are quite a few satisfied customers here.

I have the opportunity to brew in a second location a few times a year, where space for brewing, storing, and serving is limited. I do 2.5 gallon BIAB there. I use an 8 gallon turkey fryer and don’t bother with a hoist because the wet bag probably doesn’t weigh more than 10 lbs. I have a stainless steel colander which fits across the top of my kettle so I don’t need any other means of support while draining the bag.

BIAB is probably the easiest and least expensive way to get onto all grain brewing and the required equipment can be used later if a change of method is desired. I think you’ll be happy with your choice.

 

[McKnuckle]

Brewing in a bag is a method of all grain brewing, full stop. It's not a middle ground on the way to anything. It stands on its own. Good luck! Sounds like fun.

 

[KookyBrewsky]

Game plan changes daily, but I'm not in a rush. The only thing I could rush is drinking these brews that still need a week bottle conditioning...

Right now, I think I'd like to invest in a high quality brew kettle and fermentation chamber since they take the most abuse, I'm also thinking Spike. Then I could just BIAB in my large Spike kettle using some of the Wilser bags That would reduce the amount of accessories I need to get a clean beer.

Should I want to expand to traditional all-grain brewing I could just grab some of those Coleman Extreme coolers and do the CPVC or copper tubing manifold...

Opinions?

 

[Gduck]

Game plan changes daily, but I'm not in a rush. The only thing I could rush is drinking these brews that still need a week bottle conditioning...

Right now, I think I'd like to invest in a high quality brew kettle and fermentation chamber since they take the most abuse, I'm also thinking Spike. Then I could just BIAB in my large Spike kettle using some of the Wilser bags That would reduce the amount of accessories I need to get a clean beer.

Should I want to expand to traditional all-grain brewing I could just grab some of those Coleman Extreme coolers and do the CPVC or copper tubing manifold...

Opinions?

Seems a sensible route to me. While I’ve never done the brew in a bag, lots of people swear by it, and I’ve had plenty of good beers brewed by folks who use that method. It’s not the equipment, but the brewer! But anyway, going that route leaves you plenty of options and allows for future expansion.

 

[grampamark]

Should I want to expand to traditional all-grain brewing I could just grab some of those Coleman Extreme coolers and do the CPVC or copper tubing manifold...

Opinions?

Once more, for effect-BIAB is all grain brewing. It’s been around long enough, and is in sufficiently widespread use, to be considered “traditional”.

Any process which involves converting the starches in malted grain into fermentable sugars, and using the resulting wort to produce beer, is an all grain process, regardless of the assortment of pots, kettles, coolers, pumps or plumbing involved.