Intertap beer faucets

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Oh I understand what your saying And I see your point but the truth is its is a common issue when you contract chinese suppliers to make things in your name. It looks like youhave a situation were that employee did something he should legally be accountable for in this case but im kinda shocked it was allowed to go on for a couple years without anyone else at the company catching on? I mean anyone who worked for kegking would have noticed these websites such as Williams selling these pretty early on right? I mean how can kegland legally even operate now selling your products and using your name? even the website is keg king and not keg land? it seems like there was some sort of legal split in the company for this to be allowed? it just seems really odd that a random employee could do all this and get away with it is all.

I once bought an upconverting dvd player that was sold directly by the manufacturer without the company whos branding was on the boxes involvement... I didnt know it at the time and jumped on it because was only $120 vs $350 which they previously sold for... The company actually discontinued the model product and sued the supplier over it and theres was quite a thread over at AVS forum about it not much unlike this one. They all had a major issue with the power supply capacitors failing and apparently the company whos brand was on it got out of honering the warranty on all of them because they couldnt effectively distinguish the real ones from the ones sold direct from the supplier because they gave too much control to the supplier as far as documentation and packaging right down to serial numbers and distributors.
 
Last edited:
So, from all of that, my take-away is "it's the exact same product from the same manufacturer". I understand there are clear business issues involved but I don't see any disassociation from whatever qualities are in the product. Whether sold through one channel or another, it's the same faucet, apparently...

Cheers!
 
augiedoggy said:
Oh I understand what your saying And I see your point but the truth is its is a common issue when you contract chinese suppliers to make things in your name. It looks like youhave a situation were that employee did something he should legally be accountable for in this case but im kinda shocked it was allowed to go on for a couple years without anyone else at the company catching on? I mean anyone who worked for kegking would have noticed these websites such as Williams selling these pretty early on right? I mean how can kegland legally even operate now selling your products and using your name? even the website is keg king and not keg land? it seems like there was some sort of legal split in the company for this to be allowed? it just seems really odd that a random employee could do all this and get away with it is all.

I once bought an upconverting dvd player that was sold directly by the manufacturer without the company whos branding was on the boxes involvement... I didnt know it at the time and jumped on it because was only $120 vs $350 which they previously sold for... The company actually discontinued the model product and sued the supplier over it and theres was quite a thread over at AVS forum about it not much unlike this one. They all had a major issue with the power supply capacitors failing and apparently the company whos brand was on it got out of honering the warranty on all of them because they couldnt effectively distinguish the real ones from the ones sold direct from the supplier because they gave too much control to the supplier as far as documentation and packaging right down to serial numbers and distributors.
Click to expand...

Keg King management at that time was not aware because two senior employees were in control of sales and procurement. It was only after a legal firm was called in to look at irregularities that it became obvious that Keg King products were being sold to the US out of a distribution centre in Shanghai. The Kegland name was registered by one of these people whilst still in the employ of Keg King. Kegland burst on to the scene after these people were removed from the business and is the subject of legal action from Keg King. Sadly it takes time fore this to go through the legal system but a judgement was obtained against Kegland in Australia last year forcing them to trial this year. However the court has no jurisdiction over what was done overseas in particular China. There was no legal split. The businesses in the US selling Keg King products were made aware of all this.

We cannot control what happened in China as the rules there are different. Our name and our logo was taken and registered by a Chinese person on behalf of a Chinese company that used to be a supplier to Keg King. It has caused us a lot of headaches and we even had to change our logo to avoid customs problems. Frankly it is a rather terrible situation when a business suddenly has to face that its trademarks, names and logos have been knocked off in another country. This was all done without the knowledge or consent of any kind by Keg King senior management. Happy to send you a copy of the supreme court judgement.
 
And here we arrive at the KegKing vs. KegLand battle that I eluded to. I'm sure KegLand has there own version of events.
And if you look hard enough, you'll find it...

My guess is that Williams and MoreBeer both carrying KegLand products is part of the reason they are not carrying the KegKing products. Since the EVABarrier tubing is not available at Northern Brewer, as it's a KegLand product. Nor is any other KegLand product as far as I know.

I'd be interested in the UltraFlo's once the interchangeable spouts are available (similar to the Intertap)
 
Kegland has the advantage of operating in the country were all the products are actually made by suppliers that chose to sell to kegland apparently with out exclusion contracts (which often expire after a while anyway) so I could see this being a sticky situation. I know they dont enforce in trademarks there. Ive heard the stories of the Buick clones made in china without GMs permission and Ive seen the fake apple store reports on the news... and we all see what happens over and over very often when something is made there for one company.. Especially when supply and demand is allowing these to be sold at high markups, soon everyone is selling clones (or the real thing) for less (30a nema plug based tri clamp versions of the ripple element for example) In some ways It can be argued that its capitalism at even a purer form than found here in the states.
 
augiedoggy said:
Kegland has the advantage of operating in the country were all the products are actually made by suppliers that chose to sell to kegland apparently with out exclusion contracts (which often expire after a while anyway) so I could see this being a sticky situation. I know they dont enforce in trademarks there. Ive heard the stories of the Buick clones made in china without GMs permission and Ive seen the fake apple store reports on the news... and we all see what happens over and over very often when something is made there for one company.. Especially when supply and demand is allowing these to be sold at high markups, soon everyone is selling clones (or the real thing) for less (30a nema plug based tri clamp versions of the ripple element for example) In some ways It can be argued that its capitalism at even a purer form than found here in the states.
Click to expand...
We really don't want any involvement with anything Kegland. We just object to our name being used. If people want to buy stuff from unauthorised sources there is not much we can do. We just want people to know that even though it says Keg King on the box it is not our product if not bought from an authorised reseller.
 
Will Fiala said:
[...]We just want people to know that even though it says Keg King on the box it is not our product if not bought from an authorised reseller.
Click to expand...

I expect it's rather uncommon for folks to question a retailer as to whether they are "authorized" to sell a product.
Have you considered a corporate name change?

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
I expect it's rather uncommon for folks to question a retailer as to whether they are "authorized" to sell a product.
Have you considered a corporate name change?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

That is pretty hard to do but we are renaming a lot of products. Like the Fermentasaurus became the Fermenter King etc.

Hopefully through sites like this and other avenues we can make people aware. Kegland in Australia tried to have our case dismissed but they failed in this last June and have been ordered to stand trial in May this year.
 
This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.
 
Dland said:
This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.
Click to expand...
lol except in the case of these taps its not even clear as to who invented them... Remember ventmatic took legal action as owning the patents to the design and is now getting or got paid for these...(At least the ones sold here in the states as far as I know)

I think I liked it better when a company designed and made their own products in house... you know the kind of industry this country was built on in the first place.. If you wanted to do well you built a better mousetrap and sold them at competitive rates.
 
Dland said:
This saga looks like a typical scenario; Company invents and markets product, decides to have product made in china to save money, product idea, design and even branding are stolen. It has happened countless times in almost every industry.

Maybe next time(if they get another chance or a new good idea) they will decide to make or have product made in country where intellectual property rights are enforceable.
Click to expand...

Well China is getting a lot better and the demand from home brewers is always lower prices so whilst I like your thinking it would mean customers paying a lot more for their kit. Hard to have it both ways. Lets face it not a lot of what we use in everyday life is made in developed countries.
 
Well I’m confused....

I have a couple of intertap faucets I bought from Atlantic Brew Supply in Raleigh a year of or two ago. No idea if they are real or not. I would think so since I bought from large, established LBSH. But now I’m not so sure.

In any case they work great.
 
Will Fiala said:
Well China is getting a lot better and the demand from home brewers is always lower prices so whilst I like your thinking it would mean customers paying a lot more for their kit. Hard to have it both ways. Lets face it not a lot of what we use in everyday life is made in developed countries.
Click to expand...

Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.
 
Special Hops said:
Well I’m confused....

I have a couple of intertap faucets I bought from Atlantic Brew Supply in Raleigh a year of or two ago. No idea if they are real or not. I would think so since I bought from large, established LBSH. But now I’m not so sure.

In any case they work great.
Click to expand...
Like mentioned there are no "clones" They were all made in the same chinese factory except different people sold them under the same brand name and the main kegking in australia wasnt getting the proceds from the ones sold in the states. so they were legit products but not through legit middlemen whose name was used in marketing anyway.

Originally keg king australia had them made for australia and other countries ,not to be sold in the states... a couple employees apparently took it upon themselves to trademark the brand name in the US and start distributing them in the states and seller like Williams and atlantic as well as many others sold them here but supposedly this was not santioned by the real keg king company and they were not making any money off these sales and there fore should not have to support them as far as any warranty issues.. The people at kegking now went to a different manufacturer to make a new modified version of their taps and the old style are still being sold by Kegland if I have the story right...
 
Dland said:
Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.
Click to expand...
Yet sooo many do... because prices are cheapest for labor in china... those taps likely cost kegking about $5-10 a piece wholesale...

Same thing happened with the Tri clamp based ripple heating elements a couple years ago... Brewboss had them designed and made in china... brewboss and brewhardware sell them for $75 plus shipping each... I start seeing pictures of them on alibaba stating they start at $9 each depending on quantity ordered... I order 2 samples for $16 each plus shipping... report my finding here and am basically told im lying about what I paid and then later im told they are dangerous and inferior... fast forward and its now known 2 companies make these in china (Dernold and Yuling) and they can be bought all over including ebay and from members here that decided to import them in quantities and resell themselves for a proifit while still being less, without going through the original american company that originally came up with the idea to take the chinese camco element clones and mount them directly in drilled out 1.5 and 2"tri clamp cap with a 30 amp plug end attached... up until this point people were using screw in TC based adapters with cords attached to them which actually raised production cost.

Now if the element had not sold so well at such a markup we would likely not have seen the other sellers and brands popping up from china. at least not so quickly... look at the grainfather and all the copycats including the new chinese blichmann version... you can find most of those on alibaba too.


Hell I bought my whole 3bbl kettle system directly from the company stout uses to make them for literally about HALF the price including customs and shipping.... This tells me stouts markups are pretty good and explains why they continue to use that manufacturer despite them marketing and selling direct themselves in the same country. The big difference here is that company doesnt use stouts brand name..
 
Last edited:
augiedoggy said:
Hell I bought my whole 3bbl kettle system directly from the company stout uses to make them for literally about HALF the price including customs and shipping.... This tells me stouts markups are pretty good and explains why they continue to use that manufacturer despite them marketing and selling direct themselves in the same country. The big difference here is that company doesnt use stouts brand name..
Click to expand...

Nor did they likely develop the product or the design. They merely copy to the specs got from paying client, and the client paid, (one way or another) for the tooling up to make the product.

They just crank some out after or in between contract batches and sell tough their local channels at a fraction of price.

In some cases, there is less recourse if buyer has a problem, but seems to be working for you.....
 
Dland said:
Nor did they likely develop the product or the design. They merely copy to the specs got from paying client, and the client paid, (one way or another) for the tooling up to make the product.

They just crank some out after or in between contract batches and sell tough their local channels at a fraction of price.

In some cases, there is less recourse if buyer has a problem, but seems to be working for you.....
Click to expand...
Its possible.. or its possible its the other way around or a combination of both. But they sell direct at many places including sungoodmachinery.com and they make and sell much more brewing equipment that stout doesnt sell so.. (Also not all stouts stuff is made by them either). They are also a sponsor of the nano equipment section of the probrewer forum... Not your typical scenerio.. In fact Id venture to guess stout may have saw their products on alibaba as many distributors do because most of the stuff stout sells can be found on alibaba from different suppliers and are sold by different companies like affordable distilling for example some have miner design changes were were likely input from the original contracted company they are not supposed to use... This is the case for brewha and unibrau both using the same supplier for thier main conical kettle.

Not unlike the Malt munchier/kegco/ cerial killer/ northern brew/list goes on grain mills which you can order on alibaba with whatever laser etched branding and logo you want in the side with a bulk order.

If you think about it this is commonplace for autoparts and most dont have an issue buying an off brand from the same supplier that the same product from oem or other aftermarket store brands.. Sometimes the design is unique sometimes its not.
 
Last edited:
augiedoggy said:
lol except in the case of these taps its not even clear as to who invented them... Remember ventmatic took legal action as owning the patents to the design and is now getting or got paid for these...(At least the ones sold here in the states as far as I know)

I think I liked it better when a company designed and made their own products in house... you know the kind of industry this country was built on in the first place.. If you wanted to do well you built a better mousetrap and sold them at competitive rates.
Click to expand...
Brad Amidzich claims the invention of this type of forward sealing tap. We bought our rights from him.
 
Dland said:
Even if I were to accept your premise that most home brewers are only conscious of price, China is not the only "less developed" country with a manufacturing base. There are others with more contractual respect for property rights, Indonesia comes to mind, and they are not the only one.

My point was if it were me, I would not hand over my ideas, specifications and technology to a factory in a country with an overt and government encouraged policy of intellectual property theft.
Click to expand...
Well I doubt that there is enough technology or expertise in Indonesia to make such a tap. Also it is a very difficult country to do business in. Have visited there a couple of times and came to the conclusion that there is no way we can do anything there. Vietnam on the other hand could have possibilities but they are not great on IP protection either.
 
augiedoggy said:
Like mentioned there are no "clones" They were all made in the same chinese factory except different people sold them under the same brand name and the main kegking in australia wasnt getting the proceds from the ones sold in the states. so they were legit products but not through legit middlemen whose name was used in marketing anyway.

Originally keg king australia had them made for australia and other countries ,not to be sold in the states... a couple employees apparently took it upon themselves to trademark the brand name in the US and start distributing them in the states and seller like Williams and atlantic as well as many others sold them here but supposedly this was not santioned by the real keg king company and they were not making any money off these sales and there fore should not have to support them as far as any warranty issues.. The people at kegking now went to a different manufacturer to make a new modified version of their taps and the old style are still being sold by Kegland if I have the story right...
Click to expand...
Its not a modified version but a whole new design. Unlike the Intertap the Ultra Tap is a laminar flow tap (means less foam due to less turbulent flow).
 
I have 3 standard intertap faucets and have been scouring the interwebs for an answer about locks for these faucets. Has anyone had any luck with this? I keep looking at locks that fit a 500 series perlick and keep telling myself that it should work. I have a young teenage son who I’d like to keep from pouring “samples”. I’d rather not remodel my house or kegerator if I can help it.
This is the style I’m looking at...
2C912395-BF9E-407A-AEBE-67D2B2A12C6E.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I don't know if the geometry is the same, and the little bottom protrusion is smaller on the intertap. The only way to know though, is to give one a try. If anything, you might be able to modify it for your needs.

One thought to consider though, is to introduce your son to beer, and show him how to appreciate your craft and respect alcohol under your direct supervision with clear consequences for straying beyond proper established boundaries. My daughter is only 8, and my son 4, so I have some time to keep thinking about this, but as I have 14 taps, this is the only practical way for me to do it. haha.

Let us know if those locks work though!
 
The locks for Perlick will not fit Intertap. I can personally attest. The faucets look nearly identical, with Intertap including that projection, but the Intertap is a little bit larger outside diameter, and the Perlick lock won't fit over it. I don't use Intertap anymore, just Perlick, but I did look around and am unaware of there ever having been a similar lock made for the Intertap. Which makes you wonder why they copied the projection. (Actually the projection is probably too small to work anyway.) This picture shows just how far you can get a Perlick lock over an Intertap faucet.
20200301_213605.jpg
 
It isn't obvious that the Intertap designers understood the Perlick bump enabled their "wrap-around" faucet locks (eg: 308-40C for the 6XX sans FC). It's equally non-obvious that vestigial Intertap nub would hold that style lock.

There's a totally different style of lock out there that doesn't require a bump...

slide-on-tap-lock-7.png



...but the manufacturer states it only fits the Perlick 6XX (even with FC!) but doesn't fit Perlick 5XX series nor Intertaps. Still, I wonder if that style could be adapted to the Intertap...

Cheers!
 
Robert65 said:
The locks for Perlick will not fit Intertap. I can personally attest. The faucets look nearly identical, with Intertap including that projection, but the Intertap is a little bit larger outside diameter, and the Perlick lock won't fit over it. I don't use Intertap anymore, just Perlick, but I did look around and am unaware of there ever having been a similar lock made for the Intertap. Which makes you wonder why they copied the projection. (Actually the projection is probably too small to work anyway.) This picture shows just how far you can get a Perlick lock over an Intertap faucet.View attachment 669013
Click to expand...
Thanks, that’s what I was afraid of. Looks like I’m going to have to get creative.
 
camonick said:
Thanks, that’s what I was afraid of. Looks like I’m going to have to get creative.
Click to expand...
If you come up with a creative solution, be sure to share it. There will be plenty of interest.

One solution I've seen proposed somewhere is to do an end run around faucet locks. Put shutoff valves in line inside the keezer/kegerator (or just disconnect the lines when not pouring,) and put a lock on the lid or door.
 
Yup, solenoids. As found in the classic Kegbot.

There's an HBT member that has been working on an automated solenoid system among all his other brew-related projects, but it wouldn't take much to implement a simpler system, perhaps relying on a hidden reed switch to unlock...

Cheers!
 
Robert65 said:
One solution I've seen proposed somewhere is to do an end run around faucet locks. Put shutoff valves in line inside the keezer/kegerator (or just disconnect the lines when not pouring,) and put a lock on the lid or door.
Click to expand...

I agree with @Robert65. It would not take much for a creative teenager to get a ball lock adapter with a cobra tap and by-pass the faucet locks. The high-tech method is to use load cell scales to monitor keg weight and have a controller that sends alerts on any significant weight change. There are some early adopters using raspberry Pi boards to accomplish this and it has collateral benefits including knowing when to start working on the next batch as well as leak detection.

Of course this only helps when they're in your house. Having a few of those teenagers myself, with one being a freshman in college, it's important to work on what they do when you can't see them. Tap locks and raspberry pi's can only go so far.

~HopSing.
 
augiedoggy said:
What about just putting a lock on the kegerator itself and disconnecting the beer lines or putting inline shutoff valves in?
Click to expand...
Yup. That's what I suggested above. I'm a decidedly low tech guy. And I'm pretty sure your teenager could hack the fancy electronics in their sleep while also doing three other things, but would have no idea how to go down to the hardware store and get a key cut. Like a stick shift for your kegerator.
 
I think the easiest security idea for teenagers is to aim a webcam at the taps, and put a little card above them that says Smile, You're Being Recorded by Camera. Probably could get away with a dummy camera with blinking LED - they exist.
 
passedpawn said:
I think the easiest security idea for teenagers is to aim a webcam at the taps, and put a little card above them that says Smile, You're Being Recorded by Camera. Probably could get away with a dummy camera with blinking LED - they exist.
Click to expand...

I've seen well-rated security cameras for under $30. It likely just as cheap to get a camera. Or if someone's a hunter, just use a trail camera. My BIL has got some great shots with $60 trail camera.
 
I've got a ways to go before I have to address that problem. If your keezer/kegerator is in a dedicated room like a finished basement (like mine) why not just lock the door or (better) change the doorlock to where you have the only key?
 
I work at a wholesale commercial equipment distributor that shall remain nameless. I sell all manner of devices for this purpose. Best bet and least hassle is In-Line Shut Offs, and Combination padlocks.
 
passedpawn said:
I think the easiest security idea for teenagers is to aim a webcam at the taps, and put a little card above them that says Smile, You're Being Recorded by Camera. Probably could get away with a dummy camera with blinking LED - they exist.
Click to expand...

A version of this works for me. I use 2 Wyze wifi video cameras, $25 a piece. One is aimed at the kegorator and the other at the liqueur cabinet. When I arm them from my phone they send my phone video of whenever they detect motion. And I can talk back through a speaker. Our oldest is 6 so I am not worried about him yet, but babysitters are another story. I tell them, and their parents, about the cameras. I have had two different fathers thank me for having the cameras so their daughters would not be tempted.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. Unfortunately this is a reactive action instead of a proactive one. After studying my situation and the fact that intertap faucets aren’t lockable, I am going to have to modify a basement storage closet with a lockable door and electricity and move my kegerator in there.
 

Similar threads

Yesfan
Nukatap and/or Intertap individual part availability?
Replies
15
Views
1K
KegLand
KegLand
M
Keg faucets/taps - some dumb questions
Replies
34
Views
2K
mtnagel
M
R
Buying Orings and such
Replies
4
Views
373
Snowkiwi
S
jwhazel
Are intertap shanks supposed to have this o-ring?
Replies
1
Views
1K
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
B
For Sale Corny Kegs, Perlick Faucets, Driptray - Wichita KS
Replies
3
Views
605
Sauls
S
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top