Interesting German Brewing PDF

[Edelst0ff]

Seems I was mistaken; I thought carapils and carahell were similar, but after some quick googling, I see that they are not. I'll go with carahell per your recommendation. (Excuse my ignorance - I've not used either before.)

I would not disregard Carapils.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I would not disregard Carapils.

Explain? Does it add anything other than head retention?

 

[jmcquesten]

Explain? Does it add anything other than head retention?

It adds head retention and body.

 

[thekraken]

It occurs to me that in my case to reduce my boil off to around 10% that will be about 1 gallon less total water needed. But that means 1 less gallon of water to rinse the grains. Anyone experience an extract efficiency hit with this? If so how much?

 

[mabrungard]

It occurs to me that in my case to reduce my boil off to around 10% that will be about 1 gallon less total water needed. But that means 1 less gallon of water to rinse the grains. Anyone experience an extract efficiency hit with this? If so how much?

I purposely had to reduce my system efficiency to improve my beers. At my 90% or higher efficiency, I was pulling tannins into my brews. I now reserve about 1/3 of my sparging water volume and plan on topping off my kettle volume as needed with that water. The reduced rinsing with the smaller sparging volume generally leaves my final runnings at about 4 to 5 brix, which is higher than the 2 brix limit that most recommend. I'm still in the 80's with respect to efficiency.

The move to a lower evaporation loss has only improved the situation in my brewing. I wouldn't worry about that aspect too much, but if it significantly affects your efficiency, just add more grain and brew around it. High efficiency does not improve beer.

 

[TheHairyHop]

It adds head retention and body.

there is evidence that it actually reduces head retention, fwiw

 

[thekraken]

I purposely had to reduce my system efficiency to improve my beers. At my 90% or higher efficiency, I was pulling tannins into my brews. I now reserve about 1/3 of my sparging water volume and plan on topping off my kettle volume as needed with that water. The reduced rinsing with the smaller sparging volume generally leaves my final runnings at about 4 to 5 brix, which is higher than the 2 brix limit that most recommend. I'm still in the 80's with respect to efficiency.

The move to a lower evaporation loss has only improved the situation in my brewing. I wouldn't worry about that aspect too much, but if it significantly affects your efficiency, just add more grain and brew around it. High efficiency does not improve beer.

Well, I'm not so much worried about it in that way. I'm just wondering what difference to expect so that I might tweak my recipe this weekend to try and account for it.

Hey mabrungard! You were actually the inspiration for that question, I was going to ask you directly in that thread but it was a little off topic.

 

[schematix]

there is evidence that it actually reduces head retention, fwiw

Can you provide a reference to the evidence you mention?

I am curious as i've found it quite dramatically increases body and head retention, sometimes to the point of being obnoxious.

 

[doug293cz]

Well, I'm not so much worried about it in that way. I'm just wondering what difference to expect so that I might tweak my recipe this weekend to try and account for it.

Hey mabrungard! You were actually the inspiration for that question, I was going to ask you directly in that thread but it was a little off topic.

Are you batch sparging or fly sparging. For batch sparge the efficiency loss can be quantified. For fly sparging it's not possible to quantify in a general case, since the controlling variables are different for everyone's process. The chart below shows efficiency for a single, equal runnings volume, batch sparge (broken curves.) The X axis is grain bill weight divided by pre-boil volume. Just compare the efficiencies for the same grain bill weight at two different pre-boil volumes.



Brew on

 

[thekraken]

No sparge actually. This chart is great, thank you. Any chance you can share the modal you used to generate it?

 

[doug293cz]

No sparge actually. This chart is great, thank you. Any chance you can share the modal you used to generate it?

Give this a look. Let me know if you have questions.

Kind of surprised you haven't seen that chart before. I've lost track of how many times, and where, I've posted it on HBT.

Brew on

 

[thekraken]

Give this a look. Let me know if you have questions.

Kind of surprised you haven't seen that chart before. I've lost track of how many times, and where, I've posted it on HBT.

Brew on

I have seen it! Now that you've posted it it reminds me that I saw you post it the other day. Information overload I suppose.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Can you provide a reference to the evidence you mention?

I am curious as i've found it quite dramatically increases body and head retention, sometimes to the point of being obnoxious.

59:30 is where there's a bar graph. you can see carapils on the left
https://youtu.be/w8uisMqvhho?t=59m

 

[rabeb25]

That's interesting... I used carafoam again recently after a few years and both beers have some of the worst foam and head retention I have had in some time...View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1491478896.832846.jpg
Compared to normal
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1491479086.893558.jpg

 

[wobdee]

I too have seen improvement in foam since I stopped using carafoam, use to use it in all my brews.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

rabeb25, for the beer in the bottom picture, did you use carahell in the same amount that you used carafoam in the top pic?

 

[rabeb25]

rabeb25, for the beer in the bottom picture, did you use carahell in the same amount that you used carafoam in the top pic?

It's the same beer, just minus carafoam.

 

[popquizkid]

Nice! I added you/029 to the list. I couldn't find your post about what dosage for SMB so if you happen to know off-hand then I'll update that as well on the yeast strain list. Also, any follow-up on other wlp029 low oxygen batches you brew would be helpful as well - I only mention this because sometimes sulfur is hidden in big hoppy beers (a little sulfur can even be complementary at low levels in an IPA, IMO).

I did a low oxygen Altbier back in the fall using WLP029. 50mg / L was my SMB dosage - no sulfur issues. I did end up with a little bit of acetaldehyde in the finished beer but I think I transferred out the primary and into a keg with spunding valve too early. It was still a really nice beer.

 

[thekraken]

So I'm playing around with my electric brew pot trying to dial in to a 10% boil off. I'm running a 12.5 gallon kettle with a 5500 watt element. My batch sizes about 5.25 gallons so I'm aiming to only boil off about 0.6 gallons.

I've found that if I adjust power to about 35% then I lose about 10% in an hour. BUT this is not a boil, I wouldn't even call this a simmer! Is this okay or should I at least have a slight simmer?

My trusty thermapen says the water temp is about 206 to 208F, hotter directly above the element.

Also, if I'm not getting the mixing action of a boil (or at least a simmer) is this a problem?

 

[rabeb25]

Yea you will want to put a lid on it. I didn't have great luck with my 5500 watt element. I switched to a 3750 watt boil coil. I run that at 47% and with my lid I boil off 7%. I like to hover right around high 211 for my boil temp (I'm in Minnesota) and like to see 1or less srm pick up from the boil. My lid looks like this.
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-brewhouse-reconfiguration/

I have also noticed I had to drop my hop utilization down a bit. But the softer boil is so worth it. TBI/TBA is a real bogey man.

 

[thekraken]

I did have the lid partially on but it was cracked quite a bit, the crescent was a good 2". I'll close the lid all the way and try and see what we get.

But for this weekends brew should I go with the 10% "steam off" or should I dial it up enough to get a little boil action?

My bk has a whirlpool arm, perhaps if I recirculate through that for the boil it would help compensate for the lack of the natural mixing action of the boil to help generate hot break?

 

[rabeb25]

I wouldn't lie completely DMS is still a concern with covered boils and low boil off.

Here is a video I took right before I started my whirlpool for chilling.

https://youtu.be/G_WDeyhN2RM

 

[thekraken]

Thanks for the vid, I'll turn up the heat a bit.

Have you experienced dms at all? I know the guys over at brulosophy did an experiment with the lid on completely and couldn't taste any dms.

 

[rabeb25]

Absolutly. Anything less than 5% with my settings I get dms.

 

[thekraken]

So it might just be the case that it's more to do with the boil intensity than having a lid on completely or cracked? It was interesting that the brulosophy guy mentioned that he experienced the same boiloff amount with the lid on and lid off.

 

[rabeb25]

Yup, most folks boil the ever living out of the wort. Practically raising the lid off the kettle from all the steam. Waaaaaaay to hard.

 

[saltymirv]

Brulosophy did LODO again, with a DO meter and significant results. Tasters preferred the non-LODO batch due to sulfury taste in the LODO batch

http://brulosophy.com/2017/04/10/th...ow-oxygen-brewing-method-exbeeriment-results/

 

[lari]

brulosophy lodo experiment is bollocks

 

[phishie]

brulosophy lodo experiment is bollocks

Very valuable contribution to this conversation you have there.

 

[saltymirv]

brulosophy lodo experiment is bollocks

Care to elaborate on that?