Interesting Article On "Juicy" NE-IPA's

[Gravitysucks]

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/hazy-juicy-ipas.html

 

[cactusgarrett]

Unpopular opinion: I hate hazy/NE IPAs to begin with. The whole fad-ishness of this style has me turned off to them for the distant future. I know one would argue that it shouldn't be labeled a fad if the BJCP gives it its own category, but this is just my knee-jerk, visceral, irrational reaction to the movement. It's died down a bit lately, but they were dark times, listening to everyone spout off about hunting down the elusive "juiciest" or haziest offering.

I also get disheartened when i see a new brewery/brewpub open, and 5 of their 10 taps are hazy/NE IPA, just to keep the lights on, since that's all the public has seemed to want lately.

*he shouts, as he shakes his cane towards the heavens*

/end rant

 

[Jag75]

I like NEIPAs , however I'm gonna agree with him^^^^^^ on the point of a 50% of pub taps being NEIPAs . I like regular west coast IPA also. Probably more though. I can have multiple west coast but cant do same with NEIPAs . I dont discriminate, I like a wide variety especially when they have taster deals

 

[Blazinlow86]

Unpopular opinion: I hate hazy/NE IPAs to begin with. The whole fad-ishness of this style has me turned off to them for the distant future. I know one would argue that it shouldn't be labeled a fad if the BJCP gives it its own category, but this is just my knee-jerk, visceral, irrational reaction to the movement. It's died down a bit lately, but they were dark times, listening to everyone spout off about hunting down the elusive "juiciest" or haziest offering.

I also get disheartened when i see a new brewery/brewpub open, and 5 of their 10 taps are hazy/NE IPA, just to keep the lights on, since that's all the public has seemed to want lately.

*he shouts, as he shakes his cane towards the heavens*

/end rant

All your favorite beer styles were likely also fadish at one point in time. Look at West coast IPAs. They were the biggest before being dethroned by the hazy stuff. Now you can't even find them on tap. Cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

Problem with every brewery making em. A lot of em aren't very good.

 

[MaxStout]

I too like NEIPAs, and I get it that some breweries push them to the front as flagship beers. If it's in demand, give the customers what they want. But I like to see breweries take chances and do some less popular beers.

Kind of like radio stations--gotta play the hits. But a few album tracks added to the playlist would be nice, too.

 

[cactusgarrett]

All your favorite beer styles were likely also fadish at one point in time.

Right. I know my aversion is irrational. Hell, i even like quite a few that i've had. I just don't like the concept and the craziness surrounding the style; how "everyone's doing it."

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

It's a bit funny because there are some WC style IPA's that are so bitter it's like licking a rusty boot. Too much anything can be bad.

 

[Jag75]

They are good , so are red ales . However I dont want to go into a brewery and have almost half of their taps Reds.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Right. I know my aversion is irrational. Hell, i even like quite a few that i've had. I just don't like the concept and the craziness surrounding the style; how "everyone's doing it."

I don't even mind that.

The part that bugs me is on the consumer end, and insistence on murky haze or it isn't good enough. Doesn't matter how it tastes or smells. "Haze4daze or GTFO brah". Kindly fornicate yourself with a railroad spike.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Right. I know my aversion is irrational. Hell, i even like quite a few that i've had. I just don't like the concept and the craziness surrounding the style; how "everyone's doing it."

Fair enough. Lots of people don't like what's popular just for the sake of not liking what's popular. Everyone's doing it because that's what the large majority of people are currently buying and that's what pays the bills. I like neipas because I enjoy the taste. Not because they're popular or hazy. I also like old IPAs, lagers,stouts,saisons, wheats and pretty much all the others. Cheers

 

[histo320]

I enjoy the NE-IPA's and Milkshake IPA's in the rarity that I have them. I agree with all of you that a new brewery must brew what the people want in order to stay open.

But these beers have turned on new people to Craft Beer and have opened the doors for these people to explore new styles of beers and given brewers new ways/ideas to experiment with the beverage we all enjoy.

 

[Jag75]

I've never had a milkshake IPA . I take it its loaded with lactose ?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've never had a milkshake IPA . I take it its loaded with lactose ?

Yes. And often fruit.

I am on board with NEIPA.

I can't do the milkshake. I've had a few well regarded ones. Not a single one could I finish.

 

[Jag75]

Yes. And often fruit.

I am on board with NEIPA.

I can't do the milkshake. I've had a few well regarded ones. Not a single one could I finish.

That doesnt sound appealing to me .

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I do think that many breweries are chasing the "juicy" NEIPA concept a little much which often results in a beer that, to me, is a 16oz can of carbonated Dole fruit juice - all sweet and zero bitterness - not what I enjoy personally. I do love NEIPAs overall though but not ones like this. When I made my first pilgrimage to Treehouse last year, it was the first time in my life I really remember a beer that lived up to the hype in my opinion. But my simple observation on treehouse beers were this: they all tasted very "juicy" but all were extremely well balanced with bitterness which complemented the beer. Haze is not their goal in my opinion, but pushing the hoppiness envelope like old fashion West Coast IPAs once did i.e. Ruination @ 200? IBUs? lol. Obviously the NEIPA pushes the hop envelope in a totally different way. I had doppelgänger, julius, haze, hurricane, sap, and a few others. All were delicious. My favs were doppelgänger and sap for sure. But again, all did have some bitterness to balance the "juice". I may have read somewhere even that Doppelgänger has 70 IBUs? but while you definitely get the bitterness, it is restrained and complements juiciness. I also went to trillium and enjoyed their beers as well and noticed the same thing. All very drinkable, juicy, some restrained bitterness and the differing hop profiles are put up on a pedestal to showcase. Love em. So I do love the concept of the NEIPAs but like others here, growing tired of the more local breweries chasing "juice" with citra and nothing else to complement the palate. The fad will die down soon and another will follow. The NEIPAs left will be the good ones we all fell in love with initially IMHO. Cheers!

 

[Gravitysucks]

Maybe it's because I've reached the "get off my lawn" age and I hate change but I really don't like NE-IPA's. I've tried, I really have.

I live in a small state with a small population but we have over 100 craft breweries. Up until a few years ago I made a point to patronize and support new places as they opened but honestly most of them had the same things, largely NE-IPA's, on tap and even among the non NE-IPA's I didn't find many offerings that were very good. A lot of them were serving things that I, if I had brewed them, would have dumped.

Another thing I noticed was the stability issues such that the beers you got in the brewpubs and tasting rooms had noticeable differences when you got them home and after a couple of days they often tasted like something completely different and not in a good way.

3rd thing I noticed, and again it might be the age thing and is certainly anecdotal, most of the people patronizing these places and raving about their beers were quite young, a lot of them likely having just reached legal drinking age. It makes me wonder if a lot of the popularity of NE-IPA's is because these people have never had anything else and just don't know any better.

Then again it could all just be the imagination of a grumpy old man...

 

[MGamber]

Problem with every brewery making em. A lot of em aren't very good.

Quite true, like any other style there are some that are excellent, there are some that are hot dog water and there’s a lot of mediocre stuff. But the truly excellent ones are actually why I started home brewing. Bissell Brother’s Swish and Substance, Tired Hands’ Alien Church and Hophands, Foundation’s Epiphany and Venture, Flume and Onsight from Battery Steele, almost anything from Singlecut and Tree House’s Julius, Haze and Doppelgänger to name a few....I love the style and, in fact, it’s 95% of what I brew. When NEIPA was a fad it was a fixture in my house, making the 1000 mile drive to Portland ME and back several times a year with $1000-2000 of beer each run. Now that I can brew them very well, it’s not as often or as much but I still make the runs.

Now, all that said, everyone who starts doing NEIPA’s seem to make the same mistakes...way too bitter with too much thought given to balancing the hops and malt and mismatched hop flavors. A NEIPA is not a balanced beer. Trying to do so probably won’t turn out well. I can’t remember the last time I did one with more than 60 IBUs. And you have to go big or go home with the hops. Dry hopping a 5 gallon batch with 2 oz each of Centennial and Amarillo isn’t going to cut it. My Swish clone, for example, takes 9 oz of dry hops in two stages, never mind the the other 9.25 oz that go in the kettle, 6.25 of that in the whirlpool. It’s not a cheap beer and when you try to make a cheap NEIPA, it shows. It’s not a flaw with the style, it’s a flaw with the brewery and one by one, they will move on.

Per the article, a green NEIPA is nasty and can burn like hell. But it shouldn’t be up to the consumer to mitigate that. They have no idea what the brewery’s schedule is and what they do to the beer. If a NEIPA needs a couple weeks to mellow and mix and become really good, it’s up to the brewery to do that. When I do my Swish clone, it’s pretty decent when the second dry hop comes out but I let it sit for a week in the fridge before I tap it. By that time all the burn and astringency from all those hops are gone and it’s a pretty awesome DIPA. Given that my schedule matches that of Bissell Brothers, I would guess they do the same thing.

 

[lowtones84]

Yes. And often fruit.

I am on board with NEIPA.

I can't do the milkshake. I've had a few well regarded ones. Not a single one could I finish.

Same. I've had a couple really well reviewed ones and would have rather been drinking just about anyone else.

I like a really well brewed NEIPA here and there, but I'm kind of over them already to be honest. Even something like Treehouse, while very well done and delicious, I cannot have more than 1-2 in a sitting because it saturates my palate and is too sweet for my tastes. I have also experienced the "hop burn" mentioned in the article.

Also many of them are dryhopping or double dryhopping with massive quantities of Citra these days, which actually comes off as onion/body odor to my palate. The worst beer I've ever had was a highly regarded Milkshake IPA that was double dryhopped with citra. Sweet, hazy, and smelling like BO. Mmmm.

 

[Big Monk]

When done well, the hazy/juicy/NE IPA is an absolute godsend.

Do I like pulpy IPA? Nope. Do I like milkshake beer? Nope.

But we should thank our lucky stars for the good ones which have prompted a resurgence in freshness and beer in cans.

 

[day_trippr]

Oh goodie - I thought we'd get through one week without a thread banging on neipas - which are hella popular but even though the style is 20 years old by now is still considered a "fad"...

Cheers!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Fad (n): an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.

Doesn't have anything to do with how old the style is. Bellbottoms and high-waisted jeans are all old, but I don't think anyone wouldn't consider their resurgence a fad...

 

[Big Monk]

Fad (n): an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.

Doesn't have anything to do with how old the style is. Bellbottoms and high-waisted jeans are all old, but I don't think anyone wouldn't consider their resurgence a fad...

As with any beer, there are good and bad examples. There are excellent RISs and abysmal ones. Same goes for West Coast IPAs, North American "Belgian" style ales, etc.

Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater because of a few bad pulpy or milkshake IPAs.

 

[kevin58]

To the OP... In a recent Beersmith video podcast, Mitch Steele discusses IPA's in general and spends a lot of time discussing his breweries NEIPA's.

 

[kingmatt]

The "hop burn" in NEIPAs comes mostly from drinking them too soon IMO. Allowing the beer to mellow out in the keg for a couple weeks will get all that hop particulate to drop out and improve the beer immensely. If you have brewed the beer properly it will still be plenty hazy, it just won't have pieces of hops floating around in it.

"Drink fresh" is real, because these beers are HIGHLY susceptible to oxidation issues, but sometimes too fresh is just that. That is why, contrary to what the haters say, brewing a NEIPA (or a good one at least) is quite challenging. You have to make sure your brewing practices (limiting oxygen exposure when packaging, sanitation etc) are spot on so you can afford to let the beer mellow without worrying about pouring a dark brown mess.

I enjoy the challenge!

 

[lowtones84]

The "hop burn" in NEIPAs comes mostly from drinking them too soon IMO. Allowing the beer to mellow out in the keg for a couple weeks will get all that hop particulate to drop out and improve the beer immensely.
"Drink fresh" is real, because these beers are HIGHLY susceptible to oxidation issues, but sometimes too fresh is just that.

I enjoy the challenge!

Okay, so are breweries making things with a two week pleasurable window? If so, why? I've had incredibly fresh Treehouse, and it wasn't all that good. About 10 days later it was amazing, then a week later it was starting to fade. Still good around a month to six weeks out, which is where I think the good breweries make their mark.

Is that where we're going, though? Consumers must keep it in completely ideal conditions and drink it between three weeks old and eight weeks old? If so, why not just drink homebrew? Sounds like homebrew IPAs to me.

This is not to criticize the best examples of the style. There are some amazing NEIPAs out there.

 

[kingmatt]

Okay, so are breweries making things with a two week pleasurable window? If so, why? I've had incredibly fresh Treehouse, and it wasn't all that good. About 10 days later it was amazing, then a week later it was starting to fade. Still good around a month to six weeks out, which is where I think the good breweries make their mark.

Is that where we're going, though? Consumers must keep it in completely ideal conditions and drink it between three weeks old and eight weeks old? If so, why not just drink homebrew? Sounds like homebrew IPAs to me.

This is not to criticize the best examples of the style. There are some amazing NEIPAs out there.

Every style of beer has a peak window and NEIPAs seem to have a much shorter window for sure. I bought a few cases of various Tree House beers a couple years ago and they definitely started to 'fade' over weeks and months but they were always good and drinkable.

 

[day_trippr]

Fad (n): an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.[...]

Ran right through that "20 year old style" stop sign, didn'tya?
As for "without basis in the object's qualities": umm....really?
But do carry on

Cheers!

 

[cactusgarrett]

This article sums up my stance pretty well. Don't get me wrong; i enjoy a number of these beers. I just don't dig the hype that accompanies the craze.
"Point being, this craze is definitely not just about the beer."

 

[kingmatt]

This article sums up my stance pretty well. Don't get me wrong; i enjoy a number of these beers. I just don't dig the hype that accompanies the craze.
"Point being, this craze is definitely not just about the beer."

From the article you linked:

"Unlike its west coast brethren, hazy IPAs are made with a process known as dry hopping (whereby hops are added to already-fermented wort) to impart aroma and tropical flavors without bitterness."