Intense hop burn in neipa

[olotti]

I make neipas pretty much exclusively and use the same process every time. I kegged my current one 1 week ago and it has such an intense burn on the finish its almost undrinkeable and I’ve never had this experience. The nose is nice and the initial sip u get the galaxy/mosaic but on the swallow comes the burn. Sure ive gotten a little green hop flavor before but this is a hop burn if it’s that I’ve never experienced and it gets worse the more u try to drink it. So I’m wondering what would make this burn so much more intense to this point that I’ve never experienced it. I know the dh matter should’ve settled and been gone by now in the few pints I’ve pulled off it. So here’s my process on brewing these. Does anything stick out that may cause this issue.

use distilled or RO water and treat to a 2 or 3:1 ratio cal chloride to sulfate, mash ph 5.3. I use .5oz ctz for bittering at 60min. Then boil to my final volume 6.25 gal. I use a mesh bag as my hop spider and do 6oz hopstand from 195deg to 175. Drain and dump the hops then add another 6oz from 175-155deg. Drain and remove hop bag. Chill down and I transfer everything from my kettle to my fermenter. Pure o2 for 60sec then pitch yeast Usually london 3 or imperial juice starter., ferment 68-72 deg. Dh 3oz on day 3 as fermentation dies down, then move fermenter to 72deg for diacetyl rest and dh 3oz again on day 7. Cold crash day 9 for 36hrs then keg. Anything here that would lead to these hop polphenols being so present and unpleasant in this current beer or could it be my kegging technique. I burst carb for 5min then leave for 4-6hrs then degas and hookup to serving pressure At 8-10psi.

 

[Jtvann]

Pour a glass and let it settle for a day or so. Look at the bottom of the glass. How much sediment is there? Not seeing anything glaring in the process. I'd suggest a floating dip tube system to draw from the top. You may have just picked up a bunch more sediment than usual when kegging.

 

[olotti]

Pour a glass and let it settle for a day or so. Look at the bottom of the glass. How much sediment is there? Not seeing anything glaring in the process. I'd suggest a floating dip tube system to draw from the top. You may have just picked up a bunch more sediment than usual when kegging.

I’ll try that at this point why not but it’s a pretty thick looking beer but I’m sure if I leave it in a fridge and pour off slowly if there’s sediment it’ll have settled.

 

[olotti]

Nobody else??? This is disturbing as I’m actually thinking of dumping this keg. Don’t know what else to do. Other than take it off gas and sit on it I guess.

 

[MMP126]

I have this sometimes with my NEIPAs.

Let it sit for like a week. Pour a pint. It will probably have the intense hop burn. Drain pour the first pint. Pour a second pint. Taste it. See if the burn is less. If its ok, drink it. If not, maybe pour one more pint, and taste it. If its ok, drink it. If not, let the keg sit for another 2-3 days. Repeat until its good. Doesnt make sense to me to pour a whole keg out. Just wait and see how the beer changes overtime.

When I transfer my NEIPAs, I inevitably get hop/trub/yeast that comes with the beer. All that stuff needs to settle out, then you can pour it from the keg. It usually takes 2 weeks or so before my NEIPAs are prime drinking.

Alternatively, you can keg to keg transfer once the initial keg has set for like a week or so. This is annoying, and you can expose the beer to oxygen in the process, but, I know people that do this.

 

[olotti]

I have this sometimes with my NEIPAs.

Let it sit for like a week. Pour a pint. It will probably have the intense hop burn. Drain pour the first pint. Pour a second pint. Taste it. See if the burn is less. If its ok, drink it. If not, maybe pour one more pint, and taste it. If its ok, drink it. If not, let the keg sit for another 2-3 days. Repeat until its good. Doesnt make sense to me to pour a whole keg out. Just wait and see how the beer changes overtime.

When I transfer my NEIPAs, I inevitably get hop/trub/yeast that comes with the beer. All that stuff needs to settle out, then you can pour it from the keg. It usually takes 2 weeks or so before my NEIPAs are prime drinking.

Alternatively, you can keg to keg transfer once the initial keg has set for like a week or so. This is annoying, and you can expose the beer to oxygen in the process, but, I know people that do this.

I’ll keep trying. It’s already sat for a week untouched cuz we went camping after I kegged it. So I’ve pulled prob 6-7 pints from it and it’sthe burn is still pretty intense. I know the first pint I pulled when we got back looked like trub came out for a second so much had stuff had settled and I get really clean closed transfers under co2 cuz my racking cane never hits the bottom trub. Maybe I need to fold crash longer than 36 hrs.

 

[Dgallo]

AUS and NZ hops are higher in polyphenols. Your dryhop most likely kicked off hop creep and the yeast bound them to proteins in the beer which makes it stay in suspension longer. Do fret though... just let it condition for a week or two without taking a draft. Your first pour after the wait will most likely gave sediment in it but the second pour will be much better.

 

[eric19312]

I've been meaning to post a recent experience. I make brut IPA not NEIPA but follow a lot of NEIPA practices and have been producing dramatically hazy beers. Most of what I have been playing with is on the dry hop side and trying to improve utilization of dry hops after finding large percentage were getting stuck in fermentor plumbing with little or no exposure to the beer. Really getting good results rousing the dry hops (blasting them up out of the plumbing and into the beer) with CO2 daily for a couple days during dry hopping.

Current serving a batch that I fermented to completion before dry hopping. Tried something new and pulverized the hop pellets in my kitchen blender before adding to the fermentor. I didn't rouse these hops at all, just let them go for about 3 days, cold crashed for a couple days at 28F, dumped the trub and kegged.

Hazy very pale yellow beer. No signs of oxidation. Very hazy even after almost 2 weeks in the keg and still now signs of oxidation (beer has not changed color since first pour). But wow, intense hop burn during first week, letting up now or I perhaps I am getting used to it. I think this will be my last experiment with dry hop pellets in a blender.

 

[kevink]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned soft crashing yet? I have not had the burn since I started doing it.

 

[Dgallo]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned soft crashing yet? I have not had the burn since I started doing it.

Cuz they aren’t in the right Thread. And not everyone gets the secrets lol

 

[olotti]

AUS and NZ hops are higher in polyphenols. Your dryhop most likely kicked off hop creep and the yeast bound them to proteins in the beer which makes it stay in suspension longer. Do fret though... just let it condition for a week or two without taking a draft. Your first pour after the wait will most likely gave sediment in it but the second pour will be much better.

then this is insane if it’s hop creep, it’s not a prickly hop thing it’s a straight burn, very unpleasant and something I’ve never experienced Since I follow the same process for every beer. I’ve read about it but rarely experienced it. Fg on this beer was 1.014. I may try just dry hopping after yeast drops to see if I can avoid the creep or cooling the fermenter down to the 60’s and doing the second dryhop then, or just cold crashing longer. I use the blowoff into Mylar balloon so I’m not worried about oxidation during cold crashing.

 

[olotti]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned soft crashing yet? I have not had the burn since I started doing it.

and that is.......

 

[olotti]

Pour a glass and let it settle for a day or so. Look at the bottom of the glass. How much sediment is there? Not seeing anything glaring in the process. I'd suggest a floating dip tube system to draw from the top. You may have just picked up a bunch more sediment than usual when kegging.

so I did this last night and there’s zero sediment in the glass. It’s like I’m drinking a carbonated gravity sample. Weird I’ve never had this happen before. Maybe just an anomaly in brewing I guess I also crushed my own grain for the first time using my new mill but i Can’t imagine that was the problem.

 

[olotti]

AUS and NZ hops are higher in polyphenols. Your dryhop most likely kicked off hop creep and the yeast bound them to proteins in the beer which makes it stay in suspension longer. Do fret though... just let it condition for a week or two without taking a draft. Your first pour after the wait will most likely gave sediment in it but the second pour will be much better.

i use aus and nz hops a lot I’ve been brewing for 7yrs and never had this effect.

 

[Dgallo]

i use aus and nz hops a lot I’ve been brewing for 7yrs and never had this effect.

Well I’m telling you that’s what it is. Hop burn which is a molecular bond between proteins and polyphenols. It’s a spicy peppery bitterness in the finish on the back of the tongue and throat. Makes the beer impossible to enjoy. It happens with American hops too but not typically to the extent. It will condition out

 

[olotti]

Well I’m telling you that’s what it is. Hop burn which is a molecular bond between proteins and polyphenols. It’s a spicy peppery bitterness in the finish on the back of the tongue and throat. Makes the beer impossible to enjoy. It happens with American hops too but not typically to the extent. It will condition out

Ok ok I’m just befuddled as to why it’s so prevalent in this keg but hasnt been in the last 6-7 beers I’ve kegged maybe it got to warm in the room I bring the fermenter up to vs the other times. so how do avoid this going forward? just do a single dh during fermentation. I do two 6-8oz whirlpools first at 195 deg and I let that just settle until it hits 175 then I dump those hops and add another 6-8oz from 175 till it cools to 155 then I use my immersion chiller I wonder if that would be enough hops in the whirlpool to give aroma and flavor to skip the second dh and avoid any hop creep. My last few kegs literally with me and the wife literally last two weeks max from first kegging cuz their super drinkable so that’s what’s throwing me off here why this one that’s already sat a week and using the same brewing process I always use still has that intense burn.

 

[Dgallo]

Ok ok I’m just befuddled as to why it’s so prevalent in this keg but hasnt been in the last 6-7 beers I’ve kegged maybe it got to warm in the room I bring the fermenter up to vs the other times. so how do avoid this going forward? just do a single dh during fermentation. I do two 6-8oz whirlpools first at 195 deg and I let that just settle until it hits 175 then I dump those hops and add another 6-8oz from 175 till it cools to 155 then I use my immersion chiller I wonder if that would be enough hops in the whirlpool to give aroma and flavor to skip the second dh and avoid any hop creep. My last few kegs literally with me and the wife literally last two weeks max from first kegging cuz their super drinkable so that’s what’s throwing me off here why this one that’s already sat a week and using the same brewing process I always use still has that intense burn.

you Whirlpool a 14-16 oz of hops? That combined with dryhoping during fermentation is a sure way to get hop burn so To be honest, I’m surprised you haven’t gotten it previously

 

[olotti]

you Whirlpool a 14-16 oz of hops? That combined with dryhoping during fermentation is a sure way to get hop burn so To be honest, I’m surprised you haven’t gotten it previously

yeah maybe that’s part of my problem i. Do a 12oz total in a hop stand plus a 6oz ddh.

 

[olotti]

yeah maybe that’s part of my problem i. Do a 12oz total in a hop stand plus a 6oz ddh.

I like hops but maybe in a 5.5 gal batch it could be over kill.

 

[Jtvann]

I like hops but maybe in a 5.5 gal batch it could be over kill.

I've got a 12 gallon batch that uses 4 oz of whirlpool along with 20 oz in dry hops. That to me is at the stupid level of hopping in a beer, and I plan to tone down the dry hopping over a few iterations to see how it turns out.

Your proposed beer would be 36 oz equivalent.

 

[Dgallo]

I like hops but maybe in a 5.5 gal batch it could be over kill.

You’re Whirlpool is excessively large for the returns you’re going to get on those hops compounds making it through fermentation. Your total hop amount is I’ve 6lbs/bbl which is high to me but there are people doing it, so if your process is sound it can be done. I typically stick with
0.3 oz/gal in boil, 0.8–1.2 oz/ gallon in Whirlpool and then 1.25-2.0 oz/gallon in the dryhop(depends on the GU)

take a look through this thread. This is your best source of hoppy info on HBT American IPA - "Northeast" style IPA

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

In addition to what @Dgallo has said, double dry hopping half the amount you would use each time may also help.

 

[olotti]

You’re Whirlpool is excessively large for the returns you’re going to get on those hops compounds making it through fermentation. Your total hop amount is I’ve 6lbs/bbl which is high to me but there are people doing it, so if your process is sound it can be done. I typically stick with
0.3 oz/gal in boil, 0.8–1.2 oz/ gallon in Whirlpool and then 1.25-2.0 oz/gallon in the dryhop(depends on the GU)

take a look through this thread. This is your best source of hoppy info on HBT American IPA - "Northeast" style IPA

are u saying for my normal amount which is 12oz total between the two hopstands. I was under the impression that the hop stands can add aroma and flavor so then I could cut down on the dry hopping but in ur equation I’d have a 6-10oz dryhop which from what we’ve discussed is where these compounds may be binding in the beer to give the burn, so thats why I was thinking of actually reducing the dryhop amount to just two additions at 1.5oz ea 3oz total. Again this beer has been an anomaly I’ve used the same process for other neipas and never had this amount of residual burn for going on almost two weeks in the keg. I also use .5oz ctz in the boil at 60min as my bittering charge which amounts to about 25-35ibus per beersmith.

 

[Dgallo]

are u saying for my normal amount which is 12oz total between the two hopstands. I was under the impression that the hop stands can add aroma and flavor so then I could cut down on the dry hopping but in ur equation I’d have a 6-10oz dryhop which from what we’ve discussed is where these compounds may be binding in the beer to give the burn, so thats why I was thinking of actually reducing the dryhop amount to just two additions at 1.5oz ea 3oz total. Again this beer has been an anomaly I’ve used the same process for other neipas and never had this amount of residual burn for going on almost two weeks in the keg. I also use .5oz ctz in the boil at 60min as my bittering charge which amounts to about 25-35ibus per beersmith.

So this is kinda my hop schedule
.5 oz @ 60

.5oz @ 10

1.0oz @ flameout

Whirlpool
4 oz @ 160

dryhop 1
4 oz @ 4 days to kegging

dryhop 2
4oz @ 2 days left to kegging

 

[olotti]

are u saying for my normal amount which is 12oz total between the two hopstands. I was under the impression that the hop stands can add aroma and flavor so then I could cut down on the dry hopping but in ur equation I’d have a 6-10oz dryhop which from what we’ve discussed is where these compounds may be binding in the beer to give the burn, so thats why I was thinking of actually reducing the dryhop amount to just two additions at 1.5oz ea 3oz total. Again this beer has been an anomaly I’ve used the same process for other neipas and never had this amount of residual burn for going on almost two weeks in the keg. I also use .5oz ctz in the boil at 60min as my bittering charge which amounts to about 25-35ibus per beersmith.

So this is kinda my hop schedule
.5 oz @ 60

.5oz @ 10

1.0oz @ flameout

Whirlpool
4 oz @ 160

dryhop 1
4 oz @ 4 days to kegging

dryhop 2
4oz @ 2 days left to kegging

so have almost the same schedule I just choose for a larger dble whirlpool addition so I don’t have as much hop particulate settling thereby lowering my final volume. I boil down to 6.25 gal and take everything into the fermenter then after cooling and loss from dry hopping I’m able to put 5-5.25 gal into the keg. I’ve done larger dry hops in the past like 8-12 ozs and never noticed a difference on the nose vs my current 6oz it just left less beer for me to transfer due to large amount of hop matter. If I had to guess which I’ll try next beer I. Dry hopping the second one to warm and it could be leading to hop creep and then inversely not cold crashing long enough to get it to all drop out. Nice thing about closed transfers is I just nudge the racking cane down as the beer transfers so I get next to no actual dropped sediment into the keg cuz I prob leave a half inch of liquid in the fermenter so I know I’m not burying the racking cane. I appreciate the replies your thoughts give me something To chew on for the next batch.

 

[Oldskewl]

I have been fighting the intense hop burn on my last few NEIPAs as well. And it doesn’t seem to totally fade over time. The first half dozen or so turned out fabulous, but the last 3 have been barely drinkable. The plan on my next one is to shift some hops out of the whirlpool and into the dryhop after a soft crash. Go from 6 oz whirlpool/6 oz dry hop to 3 oz whirlpool/9 oz dryhop. Fingers crossed!

 

[olotti]

I have been fighting the intense hop burn on my last few NEIPAs as well. And it doesn’t seem to totally fade over time. The first half dozen or so turned out fabulous, but the last 3 have been barely drinkable. The plan on my next one is to shift some hops out of the whirlpool and into the dryhop after a soft crash. Go from 6 oz whirlpool/6 oz dry hop to 3 oz whirlpool/9 oz dryhop. Fingers crossed!

Its weird isn’t it. Same way here. I was on a hot streak and then boom this has happened the last two beers and I’m not sure where the issue is as I use the same process, water, mineral additions etc beer to beer. And like u say mines been in the keg two weeks and the flavor should’ve faded but it hasn’t and it’s not like a prickly hop burn it’s and intense back tongue burn. Color me confused.

 

[WesBrew]

Wow 18.5 oz . Surprised they weren’t all harsh. Fresher hops this time maybe? Fusels? my last nepa was 6oz whirlpool and 3oz dry hop.
Don’t dump it. Let it sit in back of kegerator for a month.

 

[olotti]

Wow 18.5 oz . Surprised they weren’t all harsh. Fresher hops this time maybe? Fusels? my last nepa was 6oz whirlpool and 3oz dry hop.
Don’t dump it. Let it sit in back of kegerator for a month.

Is that to much. Lol. Idk seemed to work ok before but maybe I’ll try out using less like a single smaller whirlpool. The beers abv’s usually range from 7-8.5% so I like to keep the hoppiness up front to hide any residual booziness

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I've been having great results using 20 ounces of hops in my 10-gallon batches. I use no bittering hop additions and 8 ounces of whirlpool hop additions, whirlpooled from flameout to 170F. Followed by dry hopping in the fermenter with 12 ounces for a week. The beer is just bitter enough and full of hop flavor and aroma and without hop burn or yeast bite after cold crashing at 36F for two days.

Since the OP uses RO water as I do I'm attaching the water I profile use below, hope it helps.