Intense hop burn in neipa

[couchsending]

I’ve never experienced hop burn in beers with even dry hop amounts of 2oz/gallon.

A few things:

You’re wasting a serious amount of hops in the WP and creating a much more hostile environment for the yeast. You would be much better off putting those hops in the dry hop. The return on quantity is significantly more on the cold side vs. hot. However you need to be very meticulous with keeping O2 exposure to zero. If you can’t then you won’t realize the additional impact and benefit these cold side additions will bring.

6oz WP in batch that will yield 5 gallons in a keg is more than sufficient. A lot of people would tell you even less. The hops simply don’t make it through fermentation that well. Hops also increase pH. You ideally want to target a specific pH going into the fermenter to create a more favorable environment for the yeast. A huge WP load can raise pH significantly.

That being said hops added in the WP aren’t creating hop burn.

Eliminate all dry hopping during fermentation.

Soft crash your beer after fermentation is complete and doesn’t have diacetyl or it’s precursors. That temp is yeast dependent. 55 is generally a good target.
Leave for 24-48 hours at 55 and remove yeast if you can. You need to maintain head pressure while doing so. Many ways to do this, depends on your gear.

Add dry hops and keep between 55 and 60. Time is up to you. Some will say 2 days, others 4, some 7. Depends on your setup really. Pay attention to how you add them and o2 exposure. At a minimum try to purge the headspace with Co2 as much as possible. If you can maintain a bit of head pressure here too that’s advisable, but not too much. 2-3psi.

After set period (2-7 days) cool beer to as low as you can and leave there for a few days (ideally removing hops along the way if you have a conical) then transfer to a keg and slowly carbonate.

You should encounter little to no hop burn and nice saturated hoppy beer with explosive aroma and flavor and most likely permanently stable haze but that’s a whole different conversation.

 

[kevink]

I’ve never experienced hop burn in beers with even dry hop amounts of 2oz/gallon.

A few things:

You’re wasting a serious amount of hops in the WP and creating a much more hostile environment for the yeast. You would be much better off putting those hops in the dry hop. The return on quantity is significantly more on the cold side vs. hot. However you need to be very meticulous with keeping O2 exposure to zero. If you can’t then you won’t realize the additional impact and benefit these cold side additions will bring.

6oz WP in batch that will yield 5 gallons in a keg is more than sufficient. A lot of people would tell you even less. The hops simply don’t make it through fermentation that well. Hops also increase pH. You ideally want to target a specific pH going into the fermenter to create a more favorable environment for the yeast. A huge WP load can raise pH significantly.

That being said hops added in the WP aren’t creating hop burn.

Eliminate all dry hopping during fermentation.

Soft crash your beer after fermentation is complete and doesn’t have diacetyl or it’s precursors. That temp is yeast dependent. 55 is generally a good target.
Leave for 24-48 hours at 55 and remove yeast if you can. You need to maintain head pressure while doing so. Many ways to do this, depends on your gear.

Add dry hops and keep between 55 and 60. Time is up to you. Some will say 2 days, others 4, some 7. Depends on your setup really. Pay attention to how you add them and o2 exposure. At a minimum try to purge the headspace with Co2 as much as possible. If you can maintain a bit of head pressure here too that’s advisable, but not too much. 2-3psi.

After set period (2-7 days) cool beer to as low as you can and leave there for a few days (ideally removing hops along the way if you have a conical) then transfer to a keg and slowly carbonate.

You should encounter little to no hop burn and nice saturated hoppy beer with explosive aroma and flavor and most likely permanently stable haze but that’s a whole different conversation.

This is almost exactly what my process has evolved to over the years and I no longer have any hop burn at all. The first pint from my last batch didn't even have a trace amount of burn which was pretty amazing to me. I go a little cooler on the soft crash (serving temp) and a little warmer for the dry hop (70F), but that's really the only variation. I'm also a little more anal about O2 exposure which never hurts, but that has nothing to do with the burn.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I make neipas pretty much exclusively and use the same process every time. I kegged my current one 1 week ago and it has such an intense burn on the finish its almost undrinkeable and I’ve never had this experience. The nose is nice and the initial sip u get the galaxy/mosaic but on the swallow comes the burn. Sure ive gotten a little green hop flavor before but this is a hop burn if it’s that I’ve never experienced and it gets worse the more u try to drink it. So I’m wondering what would make this burn so much more intense to this point that I’ve never experienced it. I know the dh matter should’ve settled and been gone by now in the few pints I’ve pulled off it. So here’s my process on brewing these. Does anything stick out that may cause this issue.

use distilled or RO water and treat to a 2 or 3:1 ratio cal chloride to sulfate, mash ph 5.3. I use .5oz ctz for bittering at 60min. Then boil to my final volume 6.25 gal. I use a mesh bag as my hop spider and do 6oz hopstand from 195deg to 175. Drain and dump the hops then add another 6oz from 175-155deg. Drain and remove hop bag. Chill down and I transfer everything from my kettle to my fermenter. Pure o2 for 60sec then pitch yeast Usually london 3 or imperial juice starter., ferment 68-72 deg. Dh 3oz on day 3 as fermentation dies down, then move fermenter to 72deg for diacetyl rest and dh 3oz again on day 7. Cold crash day 9 for 36hrs then keg. Anything here that would lead to these hop polphenols being so present and unpleasant in this current beer or could it be my kegging technique. I burst carb for 5min then leave for 4-6hrs then degas and hookup to serving pressure At 8-10psi.

Did you ever figure this out? I’m 10 neipa batches in and I’m still trying to figure it out myself. My last two were good. The one I just brewed is hop burn city again. Idk why. I went to a floating dip tube which helped but this last one def has harshness again. Did time help? I’m almost over trying to brew this style anymroe I’m so frustrated. I want more of the fruit characteristics and less burn/pepper on the back end

 

[Knightshade]

Did you ever figure this out? I’m 10 neipa batches in and I’m still trying to figure it out myself. My last two were good. The one I just brewed is hop burn city again. Idk why. I went to a floating dip tube which helped but this last one def has harshness again. Did time help? I’m almost over trying to brew this style anymroe I’m so frustrated. I want more of the fruit characteristics and less burn/pepper on the back end

Might be worth laying out your process as well either in this thread, or starting a new one. That will help narrow down where misses might be happening. My own personal opinion, but it seems like this style has more steps than any other and missing any can DRASTICALLY affect your results.

Just noticed your handle name too...last weekend was THE end of an era.

 

[Brian66]

I am going through a similar thing in the last 1 1/2 years. I used to make good NEIPAs, then following the same process they all started to get an overwhelming harsh bitterness - undrinkable. I even did 2 batches of a kit that comes with a water mineral pack and you use distilled water. The same outcome (a couple years ago I brewed this kit and it came out great). I just did that kit again. I've let it cold crash and it improved but still doesn't taste good. Base on this thread, I've kegged it and will let it sit and see. I'm doing 2 1/2 gallon BIAB. This is the link for the recipe:

https://www.love2brew.com/Citmo-New-England-IPA-All-Grain-Kit-2-5-Gallon-p/sbk061f.htm
T

 

[Brian66]

I am going through a similar thing in the last 1 1/2 years. I used to make good NEIPAs, then following the same process they all started to get an overwhelming harsh bitterness - undrinkable. I even did 2 batches of a kit that comes with a water mineral pack and you use distilled water. The same outcome (a couple years ago I brewed this kit and it came out great). I just did that kit again. I've let it cold crash and it improved but still doesn't taste good. Base on this thread, I've kegged it and will let it sit and see. I'm doing 2 1/2 gallon BIAB. This is the link for the recipe:

https://www.love2brew.com/Citmo-New-England-IPA-All-Grain-Kit-2-5-Gallon-p/sbk061f.htm
T

As this beer ages it has become drinkable. However it is not hazy and not juicy. It's just starting to taste like an IPA.

I use BIAB method, using a Gigawort water heater. I have had my filter water tested and use Bru'n water to adjust the water. As mentioned above, I've also used distilled water with a water packet of minerals etc. that is based on the recipe. I get the grains crushed (sometimes double crushed) from my LHBS. The grains do not touch the bottom during mash. Mash and boil have been both for 60 mins. I have an Anvil stainless steel fermenter. I ferment in my basement - temperature of the basement is around 62F. The fermentation is generally around 68 based on the stick on thermometer. I open the fermenter to dry hop and also don't do a closed transfer to the keg. However the bitter taste is there before kegging. I don't make yeast starters. I just pitch both liquid and dry yeast. I'm making 2 1/2 gallon batches and pitching the full pack - I've always done this and it wasn't an issue in the past.

Yesterday I brewed a hazy pale ale - I kept the mash temp between 154F-158F (often in the past it's been 148F-152F) - I wanted to see if mash temp would make a difference. I also skipped any whirlpool hops which is what I usually do. We'll see.

Any thoughts on why this has been happening?

 

[Brian66]

Question - can too much yeast cause this and/or contribute to this? I brew 2 1/2 gallon batches and will pitch a full packet of yeast that is intended for 5 gallons. I've always done this - however in the last 1-2 years this problem is pretty consistent with anything that is dry hopped more than a little.

Could this be contributing?