Instructions problem. Help please.

[VikeMan]

The one thing we can be sure of is that there's at least one measurement error here: mass, volume, and/or gravity.

 

[foscojo]

The Case of the Mysterious Malt.

Have you checked your hydrometer in distilled water yet?

Not yet. I'll pick some up next grocery run.

 

[VikeMan]

Have you checked your hydrometer in distilled water yet?

Not yet. I'll pick some up next grocery run.

It doesn't have to be distilled water. The difference in gravity between tap water and distilled water will be smaller than a typical hydrometer's/your eyes' ability to distinguish, unless the tap water has some pretty unrealistic levels of dissolved solids.

 

[foscojo]

The one thing we can be sure of is that there's at least one measurement error here: mass, volume, and/or gravity.

I know the extract amounts I mentioned are correct. I only had what I bought (see receipt above) and I used all I had.

The total water consumed was 5.5-5.75 gallons. I started with 7 one gallon bottles of spring water. After all was said and done, there was 1.25-1.5 gallons left over. 3.5 gallons went into the pot and 2+ into the fermenter. It was filled to roughly the 5.25-5.3 gallon mark on the FerMonster. I know factory gallon markings in fermenters are not accurate but I don't think it would so far off that it resulted in this bad of a reading.

Neither the refractometer nor the hydrometer have ever been calibrated.

 

[Immocles]

My gut would still tell me it’s the mixture in the sample. Thatd be one heck of a malfunctioning hydrometer to be reading 40 points over actual. I guess strange things can happen, though.

 

[eric19312]

The Case of the Mysterious Malt.

Have you checked your hydrometer in distilled water yet?

honestly check it in tap water. you are not off by 0.001 here you are off by a mile.

 

[foscojo]

I just checked both the hydrometer and the refractometer with tap water.

Hydrometer: 1.001
Refractometer: 1.005

So, not crazy off. Well, as posted above, the extract used calculates to 1.075, the hydrometer is not way out of whack, I'm confident the total volume is darn close (to within a quart).

What does that leave as the possible culprit? The mixture of sample? It did have lots of clumps at the bottom which is took to be the result of the Whirlfloc.

 

[IslandLizard]

I think here's the answer:

I then filled the hydrometer from the spigot and put it in the fridge to get it down to 60F marked on my hydrometer.

The mixture of sample? It did have lots of clumps at the bottom

Those clumps may have been undissolved LME/DME, so your sample from the bottom (spigot) contained extra sugar content (still dissolving), the mixture above was lacking.

 

[foscojo]

I think here's the answer:


Those clumps may have been undissolved LME/DME, so your sample from the bottom (spigot) contained extra sugar content (still dissolving), the mixture above was lacking.

Hm, I didn't see anything that looked like undissolved DME in the pot. The clumps in the sample looked more like the break proteins. But I guess it could have been some one there.

So if there were undissolved DME in the fermenter, what affect will that have? Will it just dissolve and get eaten or is the batch ruined?

 

[VikeMan]

So if there were undissolved DME in the fermenter, what affect will that have? Will it just dissolve and get eaten or is the batch ruined?

It will dissolve and the yeast will find the sugars.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

maybe measuring the SG at the top of the wort and the bottom of the wort could "prove"/"disprove" stratification.

So, not crazy off. [... ] I'm confident the total volume is darn close (to within a quart).

If you brew using this process again, can you take two SG measurements:
1) from the bottom of the wort (using the spigot)
2) one from the top of the wort
?

 

[BrewZer]

This'll be my last crack at this: just how thick was the extract in the two jars you added? Have you used them before, and did the syrup/extract seem a lot thicker than before? Did you heat them, and did they pour, or did you have to shovel out the contents?

 

[DuncB]

One way to work out whether you really did have an accurater water ( liquid ) volume would be to weigh the ferment vessel now and mark the level the liquid is at. Then when ferment finished re weigh the empty vessel and also reweigh when topped up to the level you filled to.
Then should be able to work out how much liquid you really had.

 

[foscojo]

maybe measuring the SG at the top of the wort and the bottom of the wort could "prove"/"disprove" stratification.


If you brew using this process again, can you take two SG measurements:
1) from the bottom of the wort (using the spigot)
2) one from the top of the wort
?

I think going forward I'll just take it from the top and ensure it is a clear sample.

 

[foscojo]

This'll be my last crack at this: just how thick was the extract in the two jars you added? Have you used them before, and did the syrup/extract seem a lot thicker than before? Did you heat them, and did they pour, or did you have to shovel out the contents?

I've never used it before. This is only my 3rd batch so I don't have much to compare it to. I did not hear them. I just slow poured with one hand and stirred with the other. Then scooped some hot wort in and swished them around a couple of times.

And this will be the last time I monkey around with LME. Not a fan of the big sticky mess. DME only until I can save up to upgrade my kettle and go BIAB.

 

[DuncB]

Quoting Ken Shales from Brewing Better Beers ( 1967 ) " Some home brewers prefer to use dried malt extracts in powder form because they find them easy to handle. I very rarely do; having served my time as a paint technologist, the handling of sticky liquids is no problem to me."

The point is most of us haven't trained as paint technologists and sticky is sticky in my opinion.

Not a BIAB person myself using electric all in one.
But don't you just need a bag to go in your kettle? That's not a big upgrade. Milled grains probably cheaper than the extract anyway.

 

[foscojo]

Quoting Ken Shales from Brewing Better Beers ( 1967 ) " Some home brewers prefer to use dried malt extracts in powder form because they find them easy to handle. I very rarely do; having served my time as a paint technologist, the handling of stick liquids is no problem to me."

The point is most of us haven't and sticky is sticky in my opinion as well.

Not a BIAB person myself using electric all in one.
But don't you just need a bag to go in your kettle? That's not a big upgrade. Milled grains probably cheaper than the extract anyway.

Sure. But a 5 gallon soup pot means I can't do 5 gallon batches. You need at least an 8, 10 is better which is what I'll be getting.

I started brewing 1 gallon batches but quickly realized that for me 10 beers it isn't worth the effort.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think going forward I'll just take it from the top and ensure it is a clear sample.

If the problem is stratification, it might be helpful to measure the wort in a couple of places.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used pounds. Here are the exact products I bought. I had no other extracts other that these. I used all of these.View attachment 723801

Given those prices being equal, realize DME gives you around 22% more gravity per pound than LME would (44.7 / 36.6).
Alas, LME comes in 3.3# containers, and DME in 3# bags, so you do get 10% more product using LME.

Reason #1:
LME: 3.3 lbs * 36.6 ppg = 120.78 pts/gallon
DME: 3 lbs * 44.7 ppg= 134.1 pts/gallon
So for the same price you'd get 134.1 / 120.78 = 11% more gravity or wort/beer using DME vs. LME.

Reason #2:
DME keeps much better over time than LME. When kept dark and dry (such as in original sealed bags), for many, many years. 5-10+ years, I have evidence of that.
In contrary to DME's fairly stable storage properties, the quality of LME goes downhill from the day it's made. LME oxidizes slowly, like (real) honey does, getting darker over time and developing what's often called a "twang." Generally, DME will taste fresher than LME, unless your LME is very, very fresh and was stored cold. At best, most off the shelf cans of LME are a few months old, usually worse.

For those reasons, I'd use either Pilsen Light DME or Golden Light DME. There's also a Bavarian Wheat DME for wheat beers. Then use steeping grains for color and flavor.

 

[IslandLizard]

If the problem is stratification, it might be helpful to measure the wort in a couple of places.

I'd say: mix better, thoroughly!
Stir, shake, whatever it takes.

Otherwise, it's always gonna be a toss up which reading is correct.

 

[foscojo]

Given those prices being equal, realize DME gives you around 22% more gravity per pound than LME would (44.7 / 36.6).
Alas, LME comes in 3.3# containers, and DME in 3# bags, so you do get 10% more product using LME.

Reason #1:
LME: 3.3 lbs * 36.6 ppg = 120.78 pts/gallon
DME: 3 lbs * 44.7 ppg= 134.1 pts/gallon
So for the same price you'd get 134.1 / 120.78 = 11% more gravity or wort/beer using DME vs. LME.

Reason #2:
DME keeps much better over time than LME. When kept dark and dry (such as in original sealed bags), for many, many years. 5-10+ years, I have evidence of that.
In contrary to DME's fairly stable storage properties, the quality of LME goes downhill from the day it's made. LME oxidizes slowly, like (real) honey does, getting darker over time and developing what's often called a "twang." Generally, DME will taste fresher than LME, unless your LME is very, very fresh and was stored cold. At best, most off the shelf cans of LME are a few months old, usually worse.

For those reasons, I'd use either Pilsen Light DME or Golden Light DME. There's also a Bavarian Wheat DME for wheat beers. Then use steeping grains for color and flavor.

I used those exact products and amounts per the official Two Hearted IPA recipe published by Bell's Brewing on their website.

https://store.bellsbeer.com/collect.../two-hearted-ale-clone-extract-ingredient-kit

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'd say: mix better, thoroughly!
Stir, shake, whatever it takes.

Agreed. Given the amount of effort OP put into mixing, it appears that either more effort or different effort is needed to get a uniform wort.

The idea was, if OP was interested, to take a couple of SG measurements to see how effective the mixing efforts were.

 

[IslandLizard]

I started brewing 1 gallon batches but quickly realized that for me 10 beers it isn't worth the effort.

Yeah, you got that right!
Between prep and cleanup, and the wait to ferment and condition it's barely worth the beer it yields.

But you could brew 3 to 5 different 1-gallon or 2-2.5 gallon batches in an afternoon. Such as a variety of IPAs using different hops for each.

Sure. But a 5 gallon soup pot means I can't do 5 gallon batches. You need at least an 8, 10 is better which is what I'll be getting.

You could when using a 2nd or even 3rd (large) pot.
If you're brewing on the kitchen stove, spreading the boil over 2-3 kettles/pots (rather than 1 huge kettle) works to your advantage as many kitchen ranges aren't powered to boil (or even support the weight of) such a large volume without jumping through hoops.

I bought a 3500W (240V) induction plate for $190, and never looked back. I can even brew 10 gallon batches on it, when putting some insulation around the (large) 15 gallon kettle. But I usually brew 2 different 5-gallon batches back to back, to get some variety.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used those exact products and amounts per the official Two Hearted IPA recipe published by Bell's Brewing on their website.

https://store.bellsbeer.com/collect.../two-hearted-ale-clone-extract-ingredient-kit

But you don't have to...

You can easily substitute DME for the cans of LME.
Use 36.6 / 44.7 = 0.82 lbs of DME for each pound of LME.

In that recipe's case, use:
0.82 * 6.6 lbs LME = 5.4 lbs of (Golden Light) DME for the same gravity.

 

[foscojo]

But you could brew 3 to 5 different 1-gallon or 2-2.5 gallon batches in an afternoon. Such as a variety of IPAs using different hops for each.

You could when using a 2nd or even 3rd (large) pot.
If you're brewing on the kitchen stove, spreading the boil over 2-3 kettles/pots (rather than 1 huge kettle) works to your advantage as many kitchen ranges aren't powered to boil (or even support the weight of) such a large volume without jumping through hoops.

I thought about that but I am brewing outside because my wife and daughter complain about the smell. Crazy right? What's wrong with them? So with one propane burner (that I just bought) and one 5 gallon pot I do not have other options. I'm going to get a cheap 10 gallon (Bayou Classic or GasOne) on Amazon. That will at least eliminate that issue as well allow BIAB. Two birds, one kettle.

 

[foscojo]

But you don't have to...

Oh, for sure. I mentioned in an earlier comment that I'll never use LME again. This is the first time trying a Two Hearted clone so I just wanted to follow the official Bell's recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm going to get a cheap 10 gallon (Bayou Classic or GasOne) on Amazon.

For 5 gallon BIAB (all grain) brews you'd be better off with a 15 gallon kettle, especially if you want to do full volume mashes, and/or higher gravity brews, as it needs to hold close to 10 gallons of (strike) water PLUS the volume of the grain bag. Keep in mind, you'd want at least 2" of headspace above the mash to be able to stir without splashing. More headspace is better.

A 10 gallon would be too small for that, unless you sparge the bag in a different vessel (such as in a large bucket).* By doing a (separate) sparge you may enjoy a somewhat higher mash efficiency too.

https://biabcalculator.com/
* Since you're outside, a little dripping and splashing from the bag during transfers and dunking is allowed.

 

[VikeMan]

But you don't have to...

You can easily substitute DME for the cans of LME.
Use 36.6 / 44.7 = 0.82 lbs of DME for each pound of LME.

In that recipe's case, use:
0.82 * 6.6 lbs LME = 5.4 lbs of (Golden Light) DME for the same gravity.

Amazing how kit recipes manage to hit exactly the "intended" OG by using LME in multiples of 3.3 lbs and DME in multiples of 1 lb. I guess the challenge for Bell's was translating their original extract recipe into all grain for mass production.

 

[Brewski_59]

For 5 gallon BIAB (all grain) brews you'd be better off with a 15 gallon kettle, especially if you want to do full volume mashes, and/or higher gravity brews, as it needs to hold close to 10 gallons of (strike) water PLUS the volume of the grain bag. Keep in mind, you'd want at least 2" of headspace above the mash to be able to stir without splashing. More headspace is better.

A 10 gallon would be too small for that, unless you sparge the bag in a different vessel (such as in a large bucket).* By doing a (separate) sparge you may enjoy a somewhat higher mash efficiency too.

https://biabcalculator.com/
* Since you're outside, a little dripping and splashing from the bag during transfers and dunking is allowed.

Agree on this, bigger is better when it comes to kettles. you should look for 15 gal. then your set for just about anything. I have a 20 gal and stopped worrying about boil overs, or lack of space for big batches, etc.

 

[BrewZer]

Sure. But a 5 gallon soup pot means I can't do 5 gallon batches. You need at least an 8, 10 is better which is what I'll be getting.

If you've got 80 bucks, Wayfair has Bayou Classic's 11-gallon SS pot -- with basket and vented lid -- on sale right now including shipping. I'm using it for AG BIAB 5-gallon batches.