Instructions problem. Help please.

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foscojo

foscojo

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Instructions say to out 3.5 gallons water in 5 gallon pot then bring to boil.

Then to add the 6.6 lbs LME and 3 lbs DME.

So I did that and it is now full to the rim.

Can I pull off 1.5 gallons and set it aside then just out it in the fermenter with the rest after the boil?
 
Did you already boil your hops prior to adding the LME/DME? If so, I'd call it a day and move to the fermenter. But you've probably already pulled a gallon or two into another pot and boiled it separately, so never mind...
 
Well, you know how fast things happen. I had to make a call and forge ahead.

I can't manage 2 boils at the same time and I didn't have time in the day to do 2 boils consecutively.

So, I set it aside 1-1.5 gallons of wort and continued with the 3.5 gallon partial boil. I didn't think to split the hops, tho.

The last hop addition was at 30 minutes. Once the boil stabilized, I slowly started adding in the extra wort. Slow enough to not stall the boil.

I still couldn't get in the last quart so I just dumped that in all at once which dropped it out of boiling. I kicked up the flame and got it back to boiling them cut the flame just as it was starting to rise up. Then started chilling.

The OG was really high. 1.110 instead of the expected 1.075. I'm thinking I should double pitch to try to eat that up.

Thoughts?
 
BrewZer said:
Did you already boil your hops prior to adding the LME/DME? If so, I'd call it a day and move to the fermenter. But you've probably already pulled a gallon or two into another pot and boiled it separately, so never mind...
Click to expand...

Please see my long reply above.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Malt extracts really don't need to boil. Your hops do tho. You'll be fine.
The OG was really high. 1.110 instead of the expected 1.075. I'm thinking I should double pitch to try to eat that up
Click to expand...
Did you get a 5 gallon volume at the end? I input the numbers in Beersmith and with 3.5 gallons you end up close to your measured 1.110. Beersmith estimated 1.109 for a 3.5 gallon batch with your numbers. Add more water to obtain 5 gallons and you'll get 1.075.
 
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Brewski_59 said:
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Malt extracts really don't need to boil. Your hops do tho. You'll be fine.

Did you get a 5 gallon volume at the end? I input the numbers in Beersmith and with 3.5 gallons you end up close to your measured 1.110. Beersmith estimated 1.109 for a 3.5 gallon batch with your numbers. Add more water to obtain 5 gallons and you'll get 1.075.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I wasn't clear. I leveled up to 5.25 in the fermenter before taking the OG. So that 1.110 was after adding the water to volume up.
 
foscojo said:
Sorry. I wasn't clear. I leveled up to 5.25 in the fermenter before taking the OG. So that 1.110 was after adding the water to volume up.
Click to expand...

There wasn't enough malt extract to get a gravity that high in 5.25 gallons. The original wort and the top-off water must not have been thoroughly mixed before you took your sample.
 
foscojo said:
Well, you know how fast things happen. I had to make a call and forge ahead.

I can't manage 2 boils at the same time and I didn't have time in the day to do 2 boils consecutively.

So, I set it aside 1-1.5 gallons of wort and continued with the 3.5 gallon partial boil. I didn't think to split the hops, tho.

The last hop addition was at 30 minutes. Once the boil stabilized, I slowly started adding in the extra wort. Slow enough to not stall the boil.

I still couldn't get in the last quart so I just dumped that in all at once which dropped it out of boiling. I kicked up the flame and got it back to boiling them cut the flame just as it was starting to rise up. Then started chilling.

The OG was really high. 1.110 instead of the expected 1.075. I'm thinking I should double pitch to try to eat that up.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
a. What yeast are you using?
b. Did you make a starter?
c. Did you use a hydrometer to check OG, and how warm was the wort when you checked it? (your reported OG is very high for the amount of fermentables you put in -- BrewTarget came back with an expected 1.072)
 
Make sure your stirring thouroughly and everything is mixed well before you take your sample. Sounds like you drew off of the original 3.5 gallons and the top off water wasn't mixed in well. Give it another shot.
 
BrewZer said:
a. What yeast are you using?
b. Did you make a starter?
c. Did you use a hydrometer to check OG, and how warm was the wort when you checked it? (your reported OG is very high for the amount of fermentables you put in -- BrewTarget came back with an expected 1.072)
Click to expand...

a. Omega West Coast I
b. No starter
c. Hydrometer, 64°F

Yes, I was expecting 1.075 according to Brewer's Friend and Brewfather.
 
Brewski_59 said:
Make sure your stirring thouroughly and everything is mixed well before you take your sample. Sounds like you drew off of the original 3.5 gallons and the top off water wasn't mixed in well. Give it another shot.
Click to expand...

I had already topped up the fermenter to 5.25 gallons before pulling the test sample.
 
VikeMan said:
There wasn't enough malt extract to get a gravity that high in 5.25 gallons. The original wort and the top-off water must not have been thoroughly mixed before you took your sample.
Click to expand...

I shook it really hard for at least 30 seconds before testing.
 
foscojo said:
I shook it really hard for at least 30 seconds before testing.
Click to expand...

If it was completely mixed, and if the volume really was 5.25 gallons, the only other possibility is measurement error, either human or device.
 
BigDave1303 said:
Perhaps there were bubbles on the hydrometer making it float higher.
Click to expand...

I suspect you're joking, but for the benefit of future googlers... Bubbles on unfermented wort could maybe make the difference between a reading of say, 1.070 and 1.071, if the true gravity was borderline. 1.110? No way.
 
VikeMan said:
I suspect you're joking, but for the benefit of future googlers... Bubbles on unfermented wort could maybe make the difference between a reading of say, 1.070 and 1.071, if the true gravity was borderline. 1.110? No way.
Click to expand...

Exact Recipe Used: Bell's Two Hearted IPA (Extract)
Yeast Used: Omega West Coast Ale I (OYL-004)

To clear up any miscommunications, here is what happened start to finish in more detail.

1. I added 3.5 gallons water to a 20 quart pot then brought to boil.

2. At boil, flame out and added 6.6 lbs Briess Golden Light LME and 3 lbs Briess Golden Light DME. This brought the level very close to the rim (maybe about 1 inch from lip of pot at most).

3. I ladled out about 1-1.5 gallons into another pot and set it aside.

4. After the last hop addition at 30 mins (once the boil settled down and became stable again) I slowly started adding back in as much of the wort from the second pot as I could. About 1 gallon went back in.

5. At end of boil I dumped the remaining wort in and waited another minute or two until it started to boil then cut the flame for the last time. So now all of the wort is back together in the pot.

6. I started the immersion chiller. While stirring almost continuously for about 20 mins (to help it chill faster).

7. At 70F I transferred it all to the Fermonster through the ball valve with about a 2 foot vertical fall to help aerate.

8. After it all transferred, I topped it up to 5.25 gallons, capped it, and shook it as hard as I could for at least 30 seconds.

9. I then filled the hydrometer from the spigot and put it in the fridge to get it down to 60F marked on my hydrometer.

10. At 60F, I first tried my new refractometer. It came in at 1.114 (see red line on image below), but I figured that since I hadn't calibrated it that it must be wrong. (I really just wanted to take my new toy for a spin.)

11. So I went forward with the hydrometer. I spun it and ensured it was not touching the graduated cylinder. It read 1.110 (see red line on image below). Bubbles didn't occur to me but I did not see any on the surface. I tried pushing it down and it popped back up to 1.110. I tried various things to get it stay down (stirring the sample, etc). Nope, it always came back to 1.110.

Maybe both my refractometer and hydrometer are both reading way high. As I said, the refractometer is new and was never calibrated. And maybe somehow something happened to the hydrometer since I last used it. Maybe there were bubbles in the hydrometer that I didn't see.

I do not know why it read so high. That's what I am trying to figure out.

Also, I don't see how it could be possible but if this is somehow magically correct, what affect this will have on the finished product. I used Omega West Coast Ale I (OYL-004) which has a high cell count but enough to eat up 1.110 or will it leave a super sweet beer or what?

og_readings.jpg
 
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VikeMan said:
There wasn't enough malt extract to get a gravity that high in 5.25 gallons. The original wort and the top-off water must not have been thoroughly mixed before you took your sample.
Click to expand...

I would expect this to be the high reading issue. That’s a boatload of high OG wort to dissolve into cool water. It’s pretty difficult to overshoot OG on extract if you used what the recipe called for, and are at the correct volume. I personally never really got too into mixing and measuring my partial boil extract batches. Dumped the kettle, and topped with tap water and called it a day.
 
Immocles said:
I would expect this to be the high reading issue. That’s a boatload of high OG wort to dissolve into cool water. It’s pretty difficult to overshoot OG on extract if you used what the recipe called for, and are at the correct volume. I personally never really got too into mixing and measuring my partial boil extract batches. Dumped the kettle, and topped with tap water and called it a day.
Click to expand...

I never added any extract to cool water. Please see detailed events above.
 
3 lbs DME @ 44.7 points/lb = 134.1 points
6.6 lbs LME @ 36.6 points/lb = 241.6 points

You've added about 375.7 points of extract to 5 gallons of water:
375.7/5 = ~75.1 points/gallon ==> SG = 1.075

In 5.25 gallons of water that comes out to an SG of 1.072
 
Sorry, what I meant was the high OG wort (the wort that you boiled). I had edited that sentence, but you must have read it before I made the change. And I guess technically I meant diluted, instead of dissolved.

Extract can be mathed out. There's no efficiency like there is in all grain. If you added that amount of extract to the correct amount of volume, you'll be hitting the recipe stated 1.075 OG. Unless you added MORE extract than was called, or are vastly under volumed, then it was a mixing issue. Its not a problem to worry about, just an incorrect measurement.
 
IslandLizard said:
3 lbs DME @ 44.7 points/lb = 134.1 points
6.6 lbs LME @ 36.6 points/lb = 241.6 points

You've added about 375.7 points of extract to 5 gallons of water:
375.7/5 = ~75.1 points => SG = 1.075
Click to expand...

I expected my new refractometer reading to be off since I have never calibrated it so it can be dismissed. So then it must be a problem with my hydrometer. I'll grab a new one for next time and calibrate my refractometer as a backup (second opinion). I hope that is the only thing that is off.

Thanks.
 
foscojo said:
I'll grab a new one for next time
Click to expand...
Get one that has a longer scale. Anything past 1.100 is a waste for most wort readings.

I got mine from my LHBS. They had 3 or 4 different models. I chose the one with the longest scale (the distance between 1.000 and 1.100), and has no confusing color schemes, it's all white paper with black print. Deviations are marked every 2 points, but they're far apart enough to read in between the marks for 0.001 precision in readings. Always read on the bottom of the meniscus. And calibrate in distilled water at the temp printed on the scale at first use and whenever you question its accuracy.
 
foscojo said:
So then it must be a problem with my hydrometer.
Click to expand...
It's unlikely, but possible a new hydrometer is off.
That's where calibration comes in, usually to double check the 1.000 point, as you should get with distilled water.

If it's off by 1 or 2 points (0.998 - 1.002) just make a note of it, to add or subtract the deviation when reading a real sample.
 
I agree it sounds like the extract was not well mixed but your process seems like it should have gotten sufficiently mixed.

Any chance you didn't use as much water as you thought you used? How is your fermonster calibrated?

Any chance you used more extract than you thought? Maybe you used 3kg DME not 3 lbs?

OG with extract brewing is usually very close to expected if everything from the kettle goes into the fermentor and you get the expected volume.
 
eric19312 said:
I agree it sounds like the extract was not well mixed but your process seems like it should have gotten sufficiently mixed.

Any chance you didn't use as much water as you thought you used? How is your fermonster calibrated?

Any chance you used more extract than you thought? Maybe you used 3kg DME not 3 lbs?

OG with extract brewing is usually very close to expected if everything from the kettle goes into the fermentor and you get the expected volume.
Click to expand...
Running your fermentables in BrewTarget using KGs for your LME gives an expected 1.119 OG.
Using KGs for your DME gives 1.095.
Using KGs for both is up in the 150's.

And that might help explain why your pot got so full...
 
BrewZer said:
Running your fermentables in BrewTarget using KGs for your LME gives an expected 1.119 OG.
Using KGs for your DME gives 1.095.
Using KGs for both is up in the 150's.

And that might help explain why your pot got so full...
Click to expand...

I used pounds. Here are the exact products I bought. I had no other extracts other that these. I used all of these.
Screenshot_20210328-151743.png
 
The one thing we can be sure of is that there's at least one measurement error here: mass, volume, and/or gravity.
 
BrewZer said:
Have you checked your hydrometer in distilled water yet?
Click to expand...

foscojo said:
Not yet. I'll pick some up next grocery run.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be distilled water. The difference in gravity between tap water and distilled water will be smaller than a typical hydrometer's/your eyes' ability to distinguish, unless the tap water has some pretty unrealistic levels of dissolved solids.
 
VikeMan said:
The one thing we can be sure of is that there's at least one measurement error here: mass, volume, and/or gravity.
Click to expand...

I know the extract amounts I mentioned are correct. I only had what I bought (see receipt above) and I used all I had.

The total water consumed was 5.5-5.75 gallons. I started with 7 one gallon bottles of spring water. After all was said and done, there was 1.25-1.5 gallons left over. 3.5 gallons went into the pot and 2+ into the fermenter. It was filled to roughly the 5.25-5.3 gallon mark on the FerMonster. I know factory gallon markings in fermenters are not accurate but I don't think it would so far off that it resulted in this bad of a reading.

Neither the refractometer nor the hydrometer have ever been calibrated.
 
My gut would still tell me it’s the mixture in the sample. Thatd be one heck of a malfunctioning hydrometer to be reading 40 points over actual. I guess strange things can happen, though.
 
I just checked both the hydrometer and the refractometer with tap water.

Hydrometer: 1.001
Refractometer: 1.005

So, not crazy off. Well, as posted above, the extract used calculates to 1.075, the hydrometer is not way out of whack, I'm confident the total volume is darn close (to within a quart).

What does that leave as the possible culprit? The mixture of sample? It did have lots of clumps at the bottom which is took to be the result of the Whirlfloc.
 
I think here's the answer:
foscojo said:
I then filled the hydrometer from the spigot and put it in the fridge to get it down to 60F marked on my hydrometer.
Click to expand...
foscojo said:
The mixture of sample? It did have lots of clumps at the bottom
Click to expand...
Those clumps may have been undissolved LME/DME, so your sample from the bottom (spigot) contained extra sugar content (still dissolving), the mixture above was lacking.
 
IslandLizard said:
I think here's the answer:


Those clumps may have been undissolved LME/DME, so your sample from the bottom (spigot) contained extra sugar content (still dissolving), the mixture above was lacking.
Click to expand...

Hm, I didn't see anything that looked like undissolved DME in the pot. The clumps in the sample looked more like the break proteins. But I guess it could have been some one there.

So if there were undissolved DME in the fermenter, what affect will that have? Will it just dissolve and get eaten or is the batch ruined?
 

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