Infections all BAD?

[Brewtah]

So I have to admit it, I really enjoy reading threads like; "Is this an infection"? Or "Can this batch be saved"? It's my sick little secret. I also read the yeast and fermentation section a lot.
I have a couple of questions about infection/contaminations.
So here it goes, pardon my ignorance. I am a bit unclear on infections.
I have had 2.
Brettanomyces is a yeast, but not necessarily wild yeast? This can be good or bad.
Acetobar is a bacteria that turns your beer to salad dressing. Always bad?
Mold is, well mold and you can rack under and save your beer?
I am not sure what Pellicle is. Finally, do they all cause gushers?

 

[KiwiBruce]

Hi Brewtah, No, not all infections are "BAD" the key is control. Guinness takes 6% of it's stout and infects it with Brettanomyces (this according to the Official Guinness site) A lot of Belgium "Monk Brewed" beers use a controlled infection to sour their beers. It's uncontrolled infections that are the "Beast" in homebrewing. In my opinion the worst infection we face, and probably the most common to homebrew is from a wild yeast named C-Albicans (Candida Albicans) Coors labs IDed this bad boy for us, it produces an apple cider off flavor as it digests the maltodextrins that the beer yeasts can't ferment. So, you ask, how does one get C-Albicans in a beer? It is a common yeast most people have in their mouths, starting a siphon hose with your mouth will infect your brew. Remedy for this one? Easy! use a siphon-starter! Kiwi

 

[Calder]

Hi Brewtah, No, not all infections are "BAD" the key is control. Guinness takes 6% of it's stout and infects it with Brettanomyces (this according to the Official Guinness site) A lot of Belgium "Monk Brewed" beers use a controlled infection to sour their beers. It's uncontrolled infections that are the "Beast" in homebrewing.

I though Guinness added sour beer with lactic acid in it, and not a brett fermented beer. I may be wrong, and will check.

The only Belgian Abbey beer that I know of that uses anything other than regular brewing yeast is Orval which adds Brett at bottling. Yes there are a lot of sour beers made in Belgium, but none of them are Trappist beers.

 

[Brewtah]

I am really talking about unplanned infections

 

[KiwiBruce]

I would be surprised if 1 in a 100 unplanned infections had a good result.

 

[jonmohno]

Some infections will fement your beer fully to tasteless crap while sometimes others will settle out and possibly disapear or maybe get funky and good or sour. Im a fan of drinking them sooner while if they taste good and dont blow up a bottle. I havent wanted to let a batch to stick around and ride out and then have to dump it. Its not a chance or experiment Ive done yet, seems some people like to let it sit and see what happens.

 

[Zabuza]

I've had several unplanned infections. One was a white/green mold that grew on floating yeast chunks, one that I got a couple of times was a thin white film that covered the top of the beer and looked like broken ice when you put the racking cane through it, and the other was a trifecta of infections that looked like cottage cheese mixed with dust and spiderwebs plus moss (that last one was in a batch that I left on primary for four months!!).

Each one tasted nasty shortly after carbonating (I forced carbed in kegs). After about a month in kegs, though, they turned into some amazing beers. Age fixes just about everything. The one I left on primary for four months was an old ale that turned out absolutely fantastic.

Of course, I think force carbonating and bottle conditioning is a key difference here - the former inhibits infection growth ('cause it's done cold) and artificially supplies CO2, whereas the latter allows those baddies to keep growing and even gives them a bit of extra fermentables to work with.

EDIT:
Brett - I'd say usually not bad, but it depends on the brett. As others have mentioned, they're an interesting form of yeast that creates funky/vinegary flavors homebrewers are beginning to experiment with a lot (and is a part of some traditional beer styles).
Acetobacter - lol @ salad dressing, can't say I've had it before (or at least I don't know if I have). I do know that house flies have colonies of this bacteria and that it is generally thought that you should throw out batches infected by house flies.
Mold - yes, I've always been able to rack out from under it and "save" my beer. The infection almost always follows to secondary, though.
Pellicle - forms a some sort of uniform, hard surface on top of the beer. They can be either bad or good (I think they're typical in lambics), and no, do not always cause gushers. I think the thin, white, filmy infection I mentioned above was a pellicle.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,i can def confirm that the ice pack breaking up kind of film is def Lactobacylis. I'm fighting with myself now about how the yeast is stirred up fermenting a few points again or the lacto is pushing the yeast to fight back. I'll have to bottle it if I keep it. So that may not be a good thing to do. IDK...

 

[Brewtah]

I blame my 2 infections (acetobar) on those damn fruit flys. Started, it seems, at bottling. Pellicle is that yeast or bacterial?

 

[jonmohno]

Yeah,they can turn beer to vinegar I think.Ive had those ****ers in my airlock before but luckily didnt make it in my beer,although in the summer they like to take a dive in the beer im drinkining all the time.

I think there needs to be more information on infections-like studies and books and stuff. I would like to know more about them in detail really. Im not interested in brewing that way generally but still would like to learn more about them. Ive learned though my own expericence with them how they have behaved because Ive bottled all my infections, I even harvested a yeast that was infected infecting like 6 batches of beers brewed later with. Luckily all those batches ended up in the fridge after carbonation though. Some overcarbed.Some not so great.Some unaffected.

 

[jonmohno]

Well,i can def confirm that the ice pack breaking up kind of film is def Lactobacylis. I'm fighting with myself now about how the yeast is stirred up fermenting a few points again or the lacto is pushing the yeast to fight back. I'll have to bottle it if I keep it. So that may not be a good thing to do. IDK...

Keep an eye on those bottles. It can pop back up,usually slowly and better yet to keep them in a cool place,so if it does happen -like mine have that you have time to notice that they start overcarbing your beer-given that you drink a few bottles of it a week checking up on them if you long term conditon your most of your beers like I do. Other wise stick those suckers in the fridge when they taste good after carb as not to deal with them carbing up even fuller.

 

[unionrdr]

I hope it doesn't come back strong. But you never know. I'm going to have to tak some other boxes & bury them. I have a big box of non de-labeled bottles to stack on top & some empty bottle boxes & can stuff with packing paper to suround them. Gunna do that today. I also use a lower carbonation level just in case.

 

[KiwiBruce]

I answer this question and BANG! the very next brew gets a bug! Jinxed myself. Did an APA lot of taste and aroma hops, gone to the taste and smell of a Lambic. I took out a gal and added 8oz each of Crystal 60l, black malt and roasted barley:-cold to boil removed grains and reboiled with more finishing hops. I pulled my first pint last night, its now a smokey porter, and not too bad, dis-like Lambic's, like porters . I'll go and have a few right now!

 

[unionrdr]

Well,it was bottled on 10/20,so they have a couple weeks to go yet. All is well so far. Nice & clear in the bottles with no floaters or odd stuff as yet. Might just turn out good after all...I hope.