infected bucket a complete loss?

[jdp]

It appears as though one of my buckets is infected. I did a search on the forum, but didn't find what I was looking for.

Is the bucket a loss, relegated to storage and mixing sanitizer, or can it actually be used to ferment again? I have some grain coming in on either saturday or monday and hope to brew a batch since my last two are crap.


How about filling it with boiling water?

 

[goose1873]

what? You are making no sense,,,

 

[BioBeing]

If the bucket is not all scratched up: Clean it as well as possible with oxyclean then soak it in bleach. 1 cup bleach in a full bucket of water should do (yes, that it a lot, but you want to kill everything, right?). Give it an hour at least. Take any spigot it might have apart and bleach it too. Take the O rings out of the lid, and bleach them too. Make sure there is no gunk stuck anywhere: bleach only works on things that are already clean.

If it is all scratched up: toss it.

 

[jeffmeh]

Or if it is all scratched up, rather than tossing it, clean it up well and use it for something other than in the cold side of your brewery.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

If you do the above and still feel uncertain about it, it's better to get a new bucket than risk infecting future batches.

 

[jdp]

If the bucket is not all scratched up: Clean it as well as possible with oxyclean then soak it in bleach. 1 cup bleach in a full bucket of water should do (yes, that it a lot, but you want to kill everything, right?). Give it an hour at least. Take any spigot it might have apart and bleach it too. Take the O rings out of the lid, and bleach them too. Make sure there is no gunk stuck anywhere: bleach only works on things that are already clean.

It doesn't look scratched up so I will give this a try. I really didn't feel too keen on trying to pour nearly 7 gallons of boiling water anyway. If it doesn't work, I guess I will have a really nice bucket to will with TSP.

 

[jdp]

If you do the above and still feel uncertain about it, it's better to get a new bucket than risk infecting future batches.

Well, I don't feel comletely sure, but I guess its worth a shot

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

If the bucket is not all scratched up: Clean it as well as possible with oxyclean then soak it in bleach. 1 cup bleach in a full bucket of water should do (yes, that it a lot, but you want to kill everything, right?). Give it an hour at least. Take any spigot it might have apart and bleach it too. Take the O rings out of the lid, and bleach them too. Make sure there is no gunk stuck anywhere: bleach only works on things that are already clean.

If it is all scratched up: toss it.

+1 and use cold water with bleach. Not the boiling or hot water you planned on.

Other than that... What makes you sure your problem is your bucket? What are you sanitizing with and how? Do you rack into your fermenter or dump? If you rack, is your racking equipment clean and sanitized? If you dump is your funnel clean and sanitized? Do you take the lid off often to take hydrometer readings and whatnot?

 

[jdc2]

It appears as though one of my buckets is infected. I did a search on the forum, but didn't find what I was looking for.

Is the bucket a loss, relegated to storage and mixing sanitizer, or can it actually be used to ferment again? I have some grain coming in on either saturday or monday and hope to brew a batch since my last two are crap.


How about filling it with boiling water?

I would just chuck it and switch to glass. Plastic is permeable, once
an infection gets in it, you can't get rid of it with anything.
Jim

 

[jeffmeh]

I would just chuck it and switch to glass. Plastic is permeable, once
an infection gets in it, you can't get rid of it with anything.
Jim

Please post your data source. It is my understanding that HDPE plastic in a bucket can be cleaned and sanitized to remove an infection, but that becomes extremely difficult if there are scratches that the cleaner and sanitizer cannot penetrate. Certainly glass is superior in this regard, but do you think that everyone who ferments in plastic buckets and carboys is always getting infections?

 

[sillyburt]

this is a great question (can you get rid of an infection in plastic fermentor) and hope someone has some good input.

 

[Houblon]

simple math really-->

cost of bucket =
cost of a lost batch of beer=

which is greater?


That said I still use lots of buckets but if I get a infection all plastic is replaced asap.

 

[jdc2]

Please post your data source. It is my understanding that HDPE plastic in a bucket can be cleaned and sanitized to remove an infection, but that becomes extremely difficult if there are scratches that the cleaner and sanitizer cannot penetrate. Certainly glass is superior in this regard, but do you think that everyone who ferments in plastic buckets and carboys is always getting infections?

It's in just about every book written by professionals, and I only used
one bucket, and it got infected. But the scratches
myth has been around for eons. Scratches are macroscopic, there is no
reason a sanitizer like bleach wouldn't penetrate into a scratch.
Jim

 

[BioBeing]

The method I posted is what I did to my bucket after I got an infection in my Ed Wort's Haus Pale Ale [when I had a bad batch of Nottingham that never took off]. It was sour, cloudy and disgusting. I cleaned the bucket, soaked it (and everything else that might have touched that beer) in bleach, then rinsed about a million times. I have used my bucket several times now with no more infections. It is also my lab's procedure for cleaning contaminated equipment (glass, stainless and plastic), as based off of NIH guidelines.

 

[3bals]

The real question here is: Does the OP really have an infection in his bucket and what makes him think so?

 

[BioBeing]

The real question here is: Does the OP really have an infection in his bucket and what makes him think so?

Yeah - that is a good question!

 

[jdp]

What makes you sure your problem is your bucket? What are you sanitizing with and how? Do you rack into your fermenter or dump? If you dump is your funnel clean and sanitized? Do you take the lid off often to take hydrometer readings and whatnot?

I have had two problem batches in a row, both using the same bucket. I dump into the bucket. I don't use a funnel. I have been sanitizing with one-step, but plan on switching to something else. with the one step, I soak for the duration of the boil, so after cooling, everything is ready to go. I don't take the lid off for anything, normally for at least two weeks when I either rack to secondary, or put into a keg. That is determined by whether or not one of my kegs is empty or not. I sanitize the same when racking to secondary. The hose, racking cane, better bottle, and anything else get a soak in one-step for around an hour.

I actually don't even use the hydrometer anymore for extract batches. so I am pretty sure that isn't the problem.

 

[jdc2]

The method I posted is what I did to my bucket after I got an infection in my Ed Wort's Haus Pale Ale [when I had a bad batch of Nottingham that never took off]. It was sour, cloudy and disgusting. I cleaned the bucket, soaked it (and everything else that might have touched that beer) in bleach, then rinsed about a million times. I have used my bucket several times now with no more infections. It is also my lab's procedure for cleaning contaminated equipment (glass, stainless and plastic), as based off of NIH guidelines.

You are talking about an infected beer, not an infected bucket.
I'm sure that if fill the bucket with water, add a relatively plastic
soluble sanitizer like a quarternary ammonium salt, and wait a long
time for it to diffuse into the plastic, you might get rid of an infection
in the bucket. But of course to find out for sure, you'll have to ferment
another batch in there to see if goes bad, and if it does, well, that's
another batch down the tubes. The easiest thing to do is get a
glass carboy and then you don't ever have to worry about it.
Jim

 

[wyzazz]

FWIW the FDA does not consider One Step a sanitizer. Pick up a bottle of StarSan and you won't be sorry! All Hail the MIGHTY FOAM!!!

 

[nealf]

I have had two problem batches in a row, both using the same bucket.

Do you think could elaborate on the word "problem" it isn't too descriptive. Is it a bad flavor, does it look funny, smell like death. It might not be the bucket... it might be a different problem completely.

 

[springer]

You are talking about an infected beer, not an infected bucket.
I'm sure that if fill the bucket with water, add a relatively plastic
soluble sanitizer like a quarternary ammonium salt, and wait a long
time for it to diffuse into the plastic, you might get rid of an infection
in the bucket. But of course to find out for sure, you'll have to ferment
another batch in there to see if goes bad, and if it does, well, that's
another batch down the tubes. The easiest thing to do is get a
glass carboy and then you don't ever have to worry about it.
Jim

I don't follow? The cause of infection is contamination so if you have an infection of the beer the bucket will also be infected by the wild yeast or bacteria.Bleach at that concentration will disinfect the plastic . Lots of people wont use glass like myself .

 

[BioBeing]

You are talking about an infected beer, not an infected bucket.
I'm sure that if fill the bucket with water, add a relatively plastic
soluble sanitizer like a quarternary ammonium salt, and wait a long
time for it to diffuse into the plastic, you might get rid of an infection
in the bucket. But of course to find out for sure, you'll have to ferment
another batch in there to see if goes bad, and if it does, well, that's
another batch down the tubes. The easiest thing to do is get a
glass carboy and then you don't ever have to worry about it.
Jim

Yeah, but the infected beer was "in" the bucket. Improper cleaning/sanitation and the infection would have stayed "in" the bucket, I'm sure.

In a good condition food safe bucket, bleach is going to kill everything.

I'm not sure about the scratch thing myself: my buckets are all less than 1 year old. I personally don't think a few scratches are going to harbor an infection against a good bleach soak. But then again, everyone has their own comfort level. If my infection had recurred after bleaching, I would incinerate the damn bucket, I'm sure!

 

[TheWhaleShark]

In a good condition food safe bucket, bleach is going to kill everything.

Well, not really, but it'll get it clean enough.

The only way to ensure total destruction is to sterilize, either by autoclaving or gassing with ethylene oxide.

As long as there aren't any really deep gouges in your bucket, you should be able to sanitize it. Surface scratches shouldn't be a problem, but deep gouges are very difficult to sanitize effectively.

 

[mkory]

Why couldn't you fill the bucket with hot enough water to kill anything in it. That should heat the plastic enough, right?

 

[jdp]

FWIW the FDA does not consider One Step a sanitizer. Pick up a bottle of StarSan and you won't be sorry! All Hail the MIGHTY FOAM!!!

I am aware of this and am just using one step until my supply is gone. However, I don't think this is the problem because the FDA used to consider it a sanitizer and was used for many many years in brewing. If someone has an experience that they know that one step failed after they followed the directions properly, I would certainly re-evaluate my opinion.

 

[jdp]

Do you think could elaborate on the word "problem" it isn't too descriptive. Is it a bad flavor, does it look funny, smell like death. It might not be the bucket... it might be a different problem completely.

the latest batch didn't smell like death like the first one, but has the same chloraseptic type taste. Thats bacterial if I have my facts straight.

 

[jdp]

One more thing I thought of while I was at work today. There are no real visible scratches, but a years worth of scrubbing with the coarse side of a sponge has given the inside of the bucket a matte like finish. These very fine scratches are what I had assumed would hold bacteria where sanitizer could not reach, is this correct? or should I just be worried about thick gouges?

FWIW, I think I am going to give a good bleach soak and try it one more time while really evaluating my sanitation. I believe I have been doing everything by the book, bordering on being anal, but there may be something I am missing.

 

[Stickshaker]

the latest batch didn't smell like death like the first one, but has the same chloraseptic type smell. Thats bacterial if I have my facts straight.

Or chlorinated water. I'm dealing with the same thing...

 

[jdp]

Or chlorinated water. I'm dealing with the same thing...

I have been using bottled drinking water from the start. the problem just showed up in these last couple batches and I haven't changed brands. I guess it could be the problem but it would be suprising. Maybe my next batch I will try another company along with everything else.

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

I'm betting the problem goes away when you are out of One Step and start using something else.