Inexpensive pulse output flow meter

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kladue

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In my searches for inexpensive flow meters for automation I came across this product that should not be hard to interface with the current automation hardware platforms. http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=288 Primary use could be in wort flow monitoring and possibly sparge/wort combination flows. The brewing temperatures will be at upper end of temp range but should be okay for minimal pressure brewing applications. It would be a good idea to buy the hose adapters and silicone hose connect it unless you can get the BSP to inch tubing fittings from swagelok.
 
The paddle wheel flowmeters are fairly linear, you need a pulse count circuit and a flow/pulse factor to get to actual flow. With reasonable clearances around impeller wheel the error from bypass leakage should not be significant. For the arduino folks all that is needed is a pull up resistor on a digital input, wire the sensor between digital input and signal return, and some code to make it go. This is about the least expensive unit I have seen that is capable of working in the brewing temperature range.
 
I have been thinking about a 2 vessel system with a flow through heater for strike and sparge and came up with a way to handle measurement of volumes for strike and sparge without a third vessel. The flow meters would help balance flows and make level control a bit easier for sparging.
 
I have been thinking about a 2 vessel system with a flow through heater for strike and sparge and came up with a way to handle measurement of volumes for strike and sparge without a third vessel. The flow meters would help balance flows and make level control a bit easier for sparging.

Kladue, this is what I have been thinking/working on as well. I have some preliminary drawings and power ideas, all electric, BCS control most likely. I've been looking for a cheaper flowmeter like this and I know that pressure transducers are another option. Have you considered using those/found any you've like?

My only issue with this for brewing applications is the temperature limit (it maxes out right around sparge temperature... and it generally just appears cheap (I know the point is to find a cheaper one...) If you end up going for it or finding out more about it, keep us posted!
 
One would be in cold water feed to heater so temp is not a problem, other would be at wort temps so that is still in range. There are wet sensors for level out there that have voltage outputs suitable for a BCS system, I went with industry standard current loop devices.
 
I have been thinking about a 2 vessel system with a flow through heater for strike and sparge and came up with a way to handle measurement of volumes for strike and sparge without a third vessel. The flow meters would help balance flows and make level control a bit easier for sparging.

I ran across a double magnetic drive pump on a single motor months ago LG comes to mind. I recall this double pump as still cheaper than two seperate LG pumps plus the even flow advantages or means of throttling them to match the flows.
 
Even though it is a double head pump the system friction/pressure drop will make flows different from side to side.

Kevin; that was why in my above post I added a means to throttle them to match the flows.
My thinking is a single motor double pump head vs the money paying for two pumps plus allowing
a brewer to balance in and out flows during a sparge and vessel transfers. This with all solid SS tubing
with a couple 3 way valves plus for extra added items electric valves at each keggle. No more silicone lines all over
the place spilling making a mess plus any needed future tubing replacements or worn camlocs and leaks. JMO's.
 
Sounds like a good idea, feed sparge and wort with same pump then. Found some honeywell wet sensors for fairly low price http://www.mouser.com/catalog/641/usd/1886.pdf, something with 1 PSI range would work for homerewing systems. An amplified version would be better but with a sensor that starts around $10 you could invest in an opamp to get a 0-5V signal out of it.
 
It's warming up, through the 80's headed for 100 degrees by month's end. It should hit peak heat about the time we finish up a new HF waste treatment system outdoors. Nothing like working outdoors when it cools down to the 90's at 5AM and ends up above 115 degrees in the afternoon to help control weight.
 
Ouch! I worked the Livermore Rad lab in the summer oudoors, kept my basic hand tools in a 5 gallon bucket of water. We agreed to start by 5 AM, work thru lunch and quit by 1 PM. Hit the bar in town then back to the cooler weather back home on the island. Hit the dock a block away to cool off in the bay. You get hit twice going home into colder weather then again back to the "dry heat". Take care. Carl.
 
Itsounds like a lot of effort, you could coil some 1/4" tube inside a 4" pvc cap to make a liquid trap to isolate the freescale sensor. The Honeywell would be a better choice for the level sensing use as it is immune to water. It could be mounted below and out of the heat and way on the frame and an offset value used to zero sensor reading. You still need the SG correction calculation and kettle temp to make it give meaningfull results as temperature and density changes.
 
Itsounds like a lot of effort, you could coil some 1/4" tube inside a 4" pvc cap to make a liquid trap to isolate the freescale sensor. The Honeywell would be a better choice for the level sensing use as it is immune to water. It could be mounted below and out of the heat and way on the frame and an offset value used to zero sensor reading. You still need the SG correction calculation and kettle temp to make it give meaningfull results as temperature and density changes.

Kevin,

I guess you could isolate it, but I plan to have my dip tube if you will, mount from the top of the keggle away from the heat using sawgelok tube fittings (already have them why not use them). I simply measure the volume in the HLT and BK. Jason has a good explanation of how the bubbler works.

There are four things that affect the behavior of gasses.

1. Mass

2. Volume

3. Temperature

4. Pressure



To solve for anything you need to make 2 of the 4 elements constant and capable of detecting the third to solve for the fourth.



We are interested in pressure, more specifically the head pressure of wort pushing on a column of gas (air). We can measure the pressure using the pressure transducer. This is not a constant.



In a tube with a static column of gas there WILL be a temperature rise. Crap, up to 2 variables. BUT we could compensate if we measure the temperature of the air in the tube, not the wort.



As the temperature changes the bubble expands, and, chit... air is leaking out of the tube. Now the mass of air in the tube has changed. We're up to 3 variables now, 2 if we can compensate for temperature. I dont know how to measure how much air is left in the tube now....



Volume, if the air in the tube begins to change for what ever reason, room temp change for example (Open the garage door, turned on the AC or a fan, the temp in the tube begins to cool. Criminey, the volume in the has changed! We're skahrude



That's four variables. 2 times too many . You might be able to get an accurate result but it will never consistently perform if there is a variance in three conditions.



This is why the bubbler system is better.

Volume IS constant because the tube is always filled with air.

The Temp of the air in the tube isn't constant but it is far more stable than the static tube, as it is constantly being replaced with room temp air (you can use a room temp them to calibrate this if you were dead set on accuracy)

That leaves two variables.

Mass - The amount of air in the tube

Pressure - How much force the wort is pushing down on it.



We don't care about the Mass of air in the tube, we care about the pressure, which we can measure.



So if we don't care about mass what good is this to us? Well, if the only 2 variances in the system is mass and pressure, the pressure reading will always be consistent.





You could address the mass issue in the static tube by running the tube all the way to the top of the kettle, put in a loop or two, and then run it down to the pressure transducer. Mark the tube up to highest point it will contain fluid at all times for all batches. Say 5 gal for a boil kettle or 3 gal for a MLT. Install some kind of bleeder valve by the transducer and leave it open when filling the kettle. Once the level in the kettle matches the fill line on the tube (the liquid in the tube will be at approx the same level) shut the valve and finish filling. oops, see edit at the bottom



If the level is high enough to keep the expanding air in the tube from escaping at peak temps, you have made the mass fairly constant. The volume of air in the tube will be affect by temperature but can be calibrated out if the temp in the tube is known.



For better results the amount of air in the tube above the fill line should be as small as possible. If you are good about not overfilling the tube before shutting off the bleeder valve you could put a loop an inch or two above the tube.



I just realized, you need to measure the vacuum, in the tube for this to work. Just get the DP version of the freescale sensor and plug the reference side into the sensor and leave the other open to ambient pressure. Some one feeling adventurous?



EDIT

Blarhg, scratch that. Leave the vent open on the tube till the kettle is full. The close it. Volume is going to change any way and relative pressure is going to change around the point at which the valve was closed. So as boil off occurs, it will gradually return to 0 psi, if boil off goes below the point the valve was closed you will read a negative relative pressure. Since Volume is going to change any how, and mass will be constant (thats what matters).
 
The bubbler method is a tried and true industrial method for dirty applications, but I looked at a KISS method of coiling tube to form a liquid barrier. You could mount everything in a PVC cap or small electrical box with coiled tubing isolator, located on the frame below kettle level. The Honeywell wet sensor is a more appealing device, you could mount 2-3 in a box below kettle level and wire to controller, tube to kettles. You still have to calculate density changes as media temperature changes to maintain an accurate reading, the SG formula is not complicated, just need to apply it to sensor output reading.
 
Kevin,

I understand. I will buy one and give it a try as they are not terribly expensive. I have an old pot I can experiment with and I have dozens of old uA741 op amps to play with.
 
I was contemplating placing 2-3 of the Honeywell wet sensors on a board with op amp and I2C ADC chip to get the output into a digital form. The calibration would be done with offset and scaling variables in the code, perhaps with a teach mode where you add measured amounts to the kettle and variables are calculated and stored.
 
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