I have brewed 6 batches of all grain now and am still struggling with efficiency. I seem to rate in the 67-70 percent range. I use a 5 gallon cooler with a false bottom and ball valve, and fly sparge it takes me right at about an hour to collect 6 gallons of wort. I have taken gravity reading after and am still hitting about 1.022to 1.026. This seems a little high. Additionally I use the 1.33 to 1 mash water calculation but because of cooler size can't mash out. Any suggestions here?
Increasing efficiecy
- Thread starter TNemethy
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As long as your consistent 70 percent is fine. The only reason to try to improve is to save a dollar or two on each batch.
It just seems from all I've read and the recipes I've used they're all set for 75 percent efficiency. Not trying for 100 percent here but would really like to hit 75 consistently. Trying to see who else has struggled with this and what they learned. Seems like I'm doing everything text book yet still struggling. Looking to learn from others experience here
beerman0001
Well-Known Member
Do you crush your own grains? Getting my own grain mill and conditioning my grain was the trick for me.
I agree on crushing your own grain. If you are using a cooler, I would suggest batch sparging with water at the high end of the sparge range and stir the hell out of it, vorlauf, then collect. The other thing to think about is ph.
Crush your own grain and keep reducing the opening until you get stuck sparges and then open it back up just a bit. Otherwise BIAB will get you the efficiency boost without the stuck spare if you crush/grind fine.
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Getting a water test done so you know your baseline is important. You should also test the pH of your mash to see how that's going. Additional water treatment may be needed by adding gypsum, etc., to alter that.
John Palmer's book "How to Brew" as well as the newer Gordon Strong book "Brewing Better Beer" are good resources.
I too am struggling with my efficiency, and have placed an order for a grain mill in addition to doing the other 2 items. Good luck!
bruin_ale
Well-Known Member
I would start by focusing on the crush as others have said. Another thing to try is to batch sparge and see how that effects your efficiency. My system just doesn't work well for fly sparging (round cooler w/ false bottom) - I'm not sure where it was channeling, but I always get better efficiency with batch than fly sparge - plus it saves a ton of time so it's win-win.
Northcalais40
Well-Known Member
I used to worry about increasing my efficiency, but then I realised that I really only needed to increase my OG. Sure there is a certain satisfaction in hitting 75% or 80% or whatever we convince ourselves that our BHE is. There is an undeniable satisfaction in a very full carboy of 1.070 wort in which you have pitched your yeast.
I used to mash in a 5g cooler with false bottom, and fly sparge. I increased my efficiency by 10% when I started doing a mash out. If I mashed with 1.33 qt / lb, I doubt that I would have had room for a mash out, but I mashed with 1 qt / lb which did leave room for normal beers with a OG of about 1.050 - 1.060. That 10% increase in efficiency saved me about $1.00 on the grain bill. Is it really worth it?
I started, using pre-crushed grains, but the LBHS owner persuaded me to buy a Corona mill, and buying uncrushed grains at a cheaper price. I didn't get any better efficiency (he obviously did a god job on the crush) but the cost of the mill was recovered in about 6 months because I could buy 10 lbs uncrushed grains considerably cheaper than buying 10 * 1 lb bags crushed grains. Several years later I changed the Corona for a roller mill, which saved me a bunch of time milling, but did not affect my efficiency. I also switched to buying grains by the sack which saved me even more money.
You say "I have taken gravity reading after and am still hitting about 1.022to 1.026"
Do you mean that your FG is 1.022 - 1.026? That seems like a very high FG for the sort of beers that I brew. If it is your FG, I would check your mashing temperature, and calibrate your thermometer as a high mash temperature will increase your FG.
Finally, I see you live in Washington which is renowned for having very soft water, which in turn means low levels of Ca. You may find that you need to add Ca (either via CaCl2 and/or CaSO4), but I wouldn't try doing that without first determining how much Ca you have in the first place.
I find https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-calculator-3-0-a-261001/ to be very useful.
Another highly recommended one is https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
-a.
I started, using pre-crushed grains, but the LBHS owner persuaded me to buy a Corona mill, and buying uncrushed grains at a cheaper price. I didn't get any better efficiency (he obviously did a god job on the crush) but the cost of the mill was recovered in about 6 months because I could buy 10 lbs uncrushed grains considerably cheaper than buying 10 * 1 lb bags crushed grains. Several years later I changed the Corona for a roller mill, which saved me a bunch of time milling, but did not affect my efficiency. I also switched to buying grains by the sack which saved me even more money.
You say "I have taken gravity reading after and am still hitting about 1.022to 1.026"
Do you mean that your FG is 1.022 - 1.026? That seems like a very high FG for the sort of beers that I brew. If it is your FG, I would check your mashing temperature, and calibrate your thermometer as a high mash temperature will increase your FG.
Finally, I see you live in Washington which is renowned for having very soft water, which in turn means low levels of Ca. You may find that you need to add Ca (either via CaCl2 and/or CaSO4), but I wouldn't try doing that without first determining how much Ca you have in the first place.
I find https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-calculator-3-0-a-261001/ to be very useful.
Another highly recommended one is https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
-a.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
If you're short on space in the MLT and want to do a mash out, you could do a decoction.
Shoot, I DREAM of hitting 70%. My calculations show about 52% BHE on my setup. I batch sparge and mash in a 10 gal cooler. Some of the grain in my last grain bill was aged (forgot about it in ziploc), so that COULD account for some extraction efficiency problems, but I was pretty disappointed in my last batch. Target was 1.052 and hit about 1.039.
Currently have a SS braid, and am considering upgrading to a false bottom and sparge arm just to increase efficiency.
As for the crush, I have the guy at the LHBS do it, since he also brews with the grain he crushes. Was looking at crushers, and the Rebel looks awesome, but $179 is a lot more than the false bottom and sparge arm.
Still considering, but very frustrated at only 52%.
Currently have a SS braid, and am considering upgrading to a false bottom and sparge arm just to increase efficiency.
As for the crush, I have the guy at the LHBS do it, since he also brews with the grain he crushes. Was looking at crushers, and the Rebel looks awesome, but $179 is a lot more than the false bottom and sparge arm.
Still considering, but very frustrated at only 52%.
bruin_ale
Well-Known Member
Currently have a SS braid, and am considering upgrading to a false bottom and sparge arm just to increase efficiency.
As for the crush, I have the guy at the LHBS do it, since he also brews with the grain he crushes. Was looking at crushers, and the Rebel looks awesome, but $179 is a lot more than the false bottom and sparge arm.
Still considering, but very frustrated at only 52%.
Save your money, neither a false bottom nor a sparge arm will help efficiency with a batch sparge. If you meant that you're going to buy those two things and switch to fly sparge for increased efficiency I'd recommend against it. If you're getting 52% with a batch sparge, you've got a much more obvious issue there (likely crush) that will still be a problem if you're fly sparging.
Take a look at your crush, if there are still whole uncrushed kernels, that's likely your issue.
I figured the crush would be the likely culprit most would point to. Logically, I'm having a hard time with that simply because Barley and Wine in Modesto is the largest homebrew shop in the central valley. Lots of people buy from them, and they offer to crush all their grain. Seems like it would be a common problem around here, and from what I have heard, it just doesn't seem to be. Possible, of course, just doesn't seem extremely likely.
Of course I would be fly sparging if I bought that equipment. Thanks for the recommendation that I save my money, but in terms of money, it's the cheaper between buying a mill and buying a false bottom and sparge arm.
I guess I'll have to noodle this for awhile. Going to be hard to persuade the wife on the grain crusher, even if that is definitively my problem.
Of course I would be fly sparging if I bought that equipment. Thanks for the recommendation that I save my money, but in terms of money, it's the cheaper between buying a mill and buying a false bottom and sparge arm.
I guess I'll have to noodle this for awhile. Going to be hard to persuade the wife on the grain crusher, even if that is definitively my problem.
bruin_ale
Well-Known Member
Might be cheaper to buy a false bottom and sparge arm, but that might not help even a little.
I used to fly sparge and got worse efficiency than batch sparging. It's heavily dependant on your system and technique. I have a round cooler with a false bottom, couldn't get a decent or consistent efficiency with fly sparging. Switched to batch sparge and I'm usually about 80%. I suggest crush because in my experience that has the greatest overall effect on efficiency. See if you can have the grain run through the mill twice and if that helps.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to consider getting a grain mill. I know someone nearby who might have one, and I'll see if using his mill helps at all.
Thank you again for the advice. This is a frustrating problem, but I'm sure I can figure it out.
Thank you again for the advice. This is a frustrating problem, but I'm sure I can figure it out.
ChemE
Well-Known Member
How precisely are you able to measure volume into your fermenter? Check out the link in my signature to graduating carboys for further explanation but this can help you "find" some missing efficiency.
Thanks for that link! I need to graduate all the equipment in my brewery. It's another of the gremlins that haunt me. Once I've drained my mash and sparge, how much liquid do I have in my keggle? ARGH! I've tried to use a center punch to get a good idea, but it really didn't mark the wall at all. One of the many projects I'm concurrently working on.
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