In Search Of A True Clean In Place System

[Big-H]

MLT CIP Circuit

 

[aangel]

Your design made me realize I'm missing two valves: one at the BK inlet and one at the MLT inlet, to limit the rate of recirculation/sparge. I *could* accomplish that via a rheostat on the pump though. Your design's good , but because of layout differences mine gets by with 2 fewer valves (once I add the two missing ones) and I can do continuous recirculation of wort post-boil until fermentation temperature is reached - in your piping, during CFC chilling the water and wort hit travel in the same path.

 

[Big-H]

Your design made me realize I'm missing two valves: one at the BK inlet and one at the MLT inlet, to limit the rate of recirculation/sparge. I *could* accomplish that via a rheostat on the pump though. Your design's good , but because of layout differences mine gets by with 2 fewer valves (once I add the two missing ones) and I can do continuous recirculation of wort post-boil until fermentation temperature is reached - in your piping, during CFC chilling the water and wort hit travel in the same path.

Nice design! We do have a couple differences but basically hitting the same goals. Have you found it helpful to recirc the post boil? My counter flow chiller typically drops the wort from boil to 70º in one pass, so I've never thought it necessary and I've taken to pitching the yeast the next morning after it has attained whatever pitching temp I want. This is helpful for lagering temps/yeasts. I hadn't thought of including a post boil recirc but I suppose it would be helpful for a hopback as well.

Its nice to brainstorm. Gets a lot of input going that can only help the final design.

I know the 3 ways are a problem...that kinda bugs me too.

 

[aangel]

I found 3-way sanitary diaphragm isolation valves, though as always, there's the challenge of "it's from china".

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Stainless-steel-triplet-3ways-triclamped-diaphragm_60121731889.html
And here was a 2-way pneumatic one I found...http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/sanitary-pneumatic-diaphragm-valve_1008317386.html

 

[Big-H]

I found 3-way sanitary diaphragm isolation valves, though as always, there's the challenge of "it's from china".

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Stainless-steel-triplet-3ways-triclamped-diaphragm_60121731889.html
And here was a 2-way pneumatic one I found...http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/sanitary-pneumatic-diaphragm-valve_1008317386.html

Have you ever ordered from Alibaba? What is the process?

 

[aangel]

I would like to see the new version. I think I could eliminate a couple things too

Have you ever ordered from Alibaba? What is the process?

I don't even know. I tried inquiring with a few vendors a while back and didn't get replies from any of them. I'm willing to bet a thread specifically asking about alibaba orders might get some responses.

 

[dcbc]

For those doing CIP on the boil kettle, how are you disposing of the trub pile? I have used a shop vac to remove most of it, before running a PBW loop backward through my chiller. But often times, its easier just to dump the trub and hops in the side yard, clean/rinse the kettle, and, then, return it for the loop, which is primarily for the chiller.

 

[aangel]

I can imagine a tippy dump or maybe a larger port on the kettle to enable rinse-to-drain. Maybe having the CIP pump (probably a sump pump) sit in a bucket as a reservoir with a strainer around it.

 

[dcbc]

I can imagine a tippy dump or maybe a larger port on the kettle to enable rinse-to-drain. Maybe having the CIP pump (probably a sump pump) sit in a bucket as a reservoir with a strainer around it.

Thanks. Tippy dump is probably overkill for my little 20 gallon kettles and is more surgery than I want to perform on my stand at this point.

I suppose I could probably disconnect my return pump and pump the crud out into the driveway while adding water to the kettle to pump as much out of the system/kettle as possible before running the CIP.

Bottom drain would probably be a pretty great improvement, but more surgery than I want to deal with at this point.

I assume the pros have a bottom drain, which, when combined with much more aggressive caustic cleaning solutions, just reduces all of the crud to a liquid form. I can't recall if my brewer buddy let everything drain before running the CIP.

 

[aangel]

I very much want to source full-drain vessels in future, for not an exorbitant price. Right now the only option I'm aware of is buying a couple steel conical fermenters, but that seems a little...overkill to me.

 

[Big-H]

I don't have a true CIP system, but occasionally I do CIP and then tear down and clean every third brew.

My HLT is water only, and that pump is always water only, so it stays out of the loop. My MLT is bottom draining (keg), and I have a pump for wort between it and the BK, and the HERMS coil is in that loop.

I got some chemicals from a brewer friend, and I use PBW, rinse, and then Five-Stars Acid #5 cleaner. The Acid #5 also works to repassivate stainless steel.

The recommendation is to do an alkali wash, burst rinse, then an acid wash (or acid rinse), burst rinse. http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Acid-5-Tech2.pdf

This makes an ultra-clean system.

It does take time, but it's hands-off time as it recirculates. I don't do it after every brewday but someone could.

I've been trying to find a locally available chemical combination that will CIP my system.
I sent an email to Dana Johnson of Birko Corp, I mentioned that I was familiar with the CIP process on dairies. He told me to get some milkstone remover (acid). The process is... after brewing

1. rinse the hops and hot break out of the kettle
2. rinse the system with water
3. use the acid and 140º to 160º water, circulate for 15 minutes
4. drain but do not rinse
5. wash with PBW in 140º water for 15 minutes
6. rinse with water
7. air dry

Heres the article from Dana:
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/wh...stone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

I bought some acid at the local dairy supply (Du A Way by An-Fo) and tried it today after my brew session.

...in a word, it works like a charm. Completely clean and sparkling SS. It also repassivates the SS at the same time.