Imperial Sour Batch Kidz

[pearljam1984]

In searching, I have only seen a few documented posts about Sour Batch Kidz, which is a combination of MTF, Reddit, and forums. Thought I would document my experience. I did pre-acidify. I expect fermentation to be fairly slow with the saison yeast being known for stalling. Plan is to leave in primary for 3 months. Then, depending on where gravity is either move to secondary with additional Brett or go ahead and bottle.

Stainless fermentor that holds 7 gallons.

6 Gallons
10lbs Pilsner
2lbs White Wheat
.50lbs Cane Sugar
Zero hops
Mashed in at 148.
Yeast- Imperial Sour Batch Kidz

11/22-
OG at 1.045. Pre acidified wort down to 4.5.
Pitched Sour Batch Kidz at 70 degrees. kept room temp at 65 degrees.

11/23-11/24- out of town and didn’t see fermentor.

11/25- tested gravity at 1.025 and ph at 3.8. Raised room temps up to 73 degrees.

 

[Funky Frank]

Of all the commercial mixed fermenters, sour batch kidz is my favorite for 1st gen use with nothing else added. I would always suggest upping the diversity with other cultures, cakes, and bottle dregs.

Nice notes/post. Keep us updated!

 

[pearljam1984]

Tested today.

11/25- tested gravity at 1.020. Ph at 3.5. Raised fermentor to 75°-77°.

I think I will add some bottle droegs later on. Is it ok to pitch droegs from a fruited sour? I have access to American Solera and Jester King. But for the most part everything is fruited.

 

[Dgallo]

In searching, I have only seen a few documented posts about Sour Batch Kidz, which is a combination of MTF, Reddit, and forums. Thought I would document my experience. I did pre-acidify. I expect fermentation to be fairly slow with the saison yeast being known for stalling. Plan is to leave in primary for 3 months. Then, depending on where gravity is either move to secondary with additional Brett or go ahead and bottle.

Stainless fermentor that holds 7 gallons.

6 Gallons
10lbs Pilsner
2lbs White Wheat
.50lbs Cane Sugar
Zero hops
Mashed in at 148.
Yeast- Imperial Sour Batch Kidz

11/22-
OG at 1.045. Pre acidified wort down to 4.5.
Pitched Sour Batch Kidz at 70 degrees. kept room temp at 65 degrees.

11/23-11/24- out of town and didn’t see fermentor.

11/25- tested gravity at 1.025 and ph at 3.8. Raised room temps up to 73 degrees.

I personally wouldn’t move it to a secondary, I’d just add the Brett. Brett, takes a bit to get going so it won’t produce enough co2 quick enough to protect you from oxidation. But I’m confused who You’d add more Brett. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t sour batch kids a Saison, lacto and multiple Brett blend? If that’s the case. This beer should take a minimum of 3 months before the Brett’s really become prevalent, prob 6 months total to be idea.

 

[Funky Frank]

It will be just fine to use dregs from fruited sour.

As for why add the extra Dregs/Brett...commercial sours are sometimes products of open fermentation so there will be yeasts and bugs other than Sacc, Brett, and Pedio. Different strains of Brett also use different compounds and create different byproducts. All of this could add interest in the sour and anecdotally, most people have good experiences adding dregs.

At 3 months co2 will not protect the beer anymore but a pellicle will. You could also purge with co2.

 

[pearljam1984]

I personally wouldn’t move it to a secondary, I’d just add the Brett. Brett, takes a bit to get going so it won’t produce enough co2 quick enough to protect you from oxidation. But I’m confused who You’d add more Brett. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t sour batch kids a Saison, lacto and multiple Brett blend? If that’s the case. This beer should take a minimum of 3 months before the Brett’s really become prevalent, prob 6 months total to be idea.

Yes, Sour Batch Kidz is Lacto, Saison and Brett blend. And great point regarding secondary.

It will be just fine to use dregs from fruited sour.

As for why add the extra Dregs/Brett...commercial sours are sometimes products of open fermentation so there will be yeasts and bugs other than Sacc, Brett, and Pedio. Different strains of Brett also use different compounds and create different byproducts. All of this could add interest in the sour and anecdotally, most people have good experiences adding dregs.

At 3 months co2 will not protect the beer anymore but a pellicle will. You could also purge with co2.

I have two beers I have harvested droegs from
Both were coolship/Spontaneous fermentation. Both outstanding. I plan to pitch these one the gravity gets down a bit further.

Good to know that droegs from a fruited sour is ok to use.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

 

[pearljam1984]

Final post for sometime...

11/30-
gravity tested at 1.014. Ph at 3.3/3.4
Yeast didn’t exactly stall. 8 days from pitching yeast to today. But definitely let the lacto get working out in front. A small taste provided enough to let me know it’s sour.

Pitched bottle droegs from...

American Solera- Year Three (Spontaneous)
Stonecloud- Scarlet Ibis (open ferm spontaneous)

Moved Fermentor to back of a long closet to be still and set at 75° For the next few months.

Patience..

 

[goodolarchie]

Of all the commercial mixed fermenters, sour batch kidz is my favorite for 1st gen use with nothing else added. I would always suggest upping the diversity with other cultures, cakes, and bottle dregs.

My sentiment exactly, and I've pointed a lot of intrepid sour brewers to the strain. I've gotten some award winners from it and staggering a dregs pitch at day 3-4. On its own it does a fine job and in pretty good time; the sacch strain is Dupont, letting both the lacto and brett make some headway as it slowly lurches along. At 2-3 IBU I found it to be like a nice sweet-tart quality (3.3pH) after 4 weeks, with some dried fruit and sour cherry brett character coming over time, and just a hint of barnyard funk. I'm still a fan of dregs for added complexity.

 

[pearljam1984]

My sentiment exactly, and I've pointed a lot of intrepid sour brewers to the strain. I've gotten some award winners from it and staggering a dregs pitch at day 3-4. On its own it does a fine job and in pretty good time; the sacch strain is Dupont, letting both the lacto and brett make some headway as it slowly lurches along. At 2-3 IBU I found it to be like a nice sweet-tart quality (3.3pH) after 4 weeks, with some dried fruit and sour cherry brett character coming over time, and just a hint of barnyard funk. I'm still a fan of dregs for added complexity.

Have you bottled any of the sours you made with SBK? Any consistency with final gravity?

 

[goodolarchie]

Have you bottled any of the sours you made with SBK? Any consistency with final gravity?

Yeah, I did bottle a kriek that had undergone refermentation in secondary, added dextrose to hit 3 volumes and relied on the remaining brett to condition it. It worked great, had a very nice effervescence, probably didn't need to go as high as I did (I'm not crazy about super carbed fruited lambics). I'd have to dig through my notes but I think I raised it to 1.07 and it finished at 1.01 over time.

 

[Funky Frank]

Plan on 1.003 give or take. And even at that, it has a decent mouth feel for a sour.

 

[pearljam1984]

Yeah, I did bottle a kriek that had undergone refermentation in secondary, added dextrose to hit 3 volumes and relied on the remaining brett to condition it. It worked great, had a very nice effervescence, probably didn't need to go as high as I did (I'm not crazy about super carbed fruited lambics). I'd have to dig through my notes but I think I raised it to 1.07 and it finished at 1.01 over time.

Thanks for the info. Don’t plan on fruiting this time. But maybe second time through.

Just trying to get an understanding of FG for bottling. I figured somewhere around 1.005. Planning for champagne bottles, but I prefer low carb on these type of sours personally.

 

[HopNutz]

I used sour batch kidz on a sour I brewed 18 months ago. I pitched just the SBK and then added Jolly pumpkin dregs afterwards. I just kegged it 2 days ago after aging on plums for 3 months. Probably the best sour I've brewed.

 

[Dgallo]

I used sour batch kidz on a sour I brewed 18 months ago. I pitched just the SBK and then added Jolly pumpkin dregs afterwards. I just kegged it 2 days ago after aging on plums for 3 months. Probably the best sour I've brewed.

I certainly admire your patience. I personally could never wait for long souring process

 

[brownni5]

I used sour batch kidz on a sour I brewed 18 months ago. I pitched just the SBK and then added Jolly pumpkin dregs afterwards. I just kegged it 2 days ago after aging on plums for 3 months. Probably the best sour I've brewed.

Stupid reliable JP dregs. My best sours have JP dregs in there somewhere.

 

[Loud Brewing]

I have a pouch of the Sour Batch Kidz in the fridge, gonna pitch it into something here soon and play the waiting game

 

[jrgtr42]

Did you use the SBK as the primary yeast?
I have a sour I've made a couple times that uses bug blends as secondary -
Do a primary ferment (in my case with Abbey Ale yeast) then rack to secondary and pitch the bugs.
I used the SBK this last time, with a few other dregs tossed in over time - it was in for almost a year, so there was plenty of time to add other stuff.
I'm really happy with this batch - it was based on a recipe for a clone of Russian River's Consecration, but I tweaked the later additions on this go around. Don't think I'll change anything from this to next time.

 

[goodolarchie]

Really happy with my latest SBK results (no dregs) after only 8 weeks! Been working on a table saison bretta that is a close match to Holy Mountain's Vesper. They do a primary with Belgian Sacch and then bottle with brett. But using only SBK and tweaking my grist/hops I think I've made my homage to this beer and so happy with the fast turnaround. Aromatically it has the right balance of citrus zest, dry forest floor aroma, moderate esters, but has some great funk through the finish and midpalate.

My grist was about 65% pilsner, 10% spelt malt, 20% white wheat malt, and 5% oats. Next time I might sub wheat for rye and just go 10/10/10/5, even lower the OG from 1.038 to 1.034. I was actually aiming for 1.035 but my efficiency was way better than planned.

Hops are where I think I nailed this batch (roughly 15 gallons split across a lot of vessels), with about 1oz aged/lambic per 5 gallons of ~0.5% AA Cascade hops going in FWH, and a small charge of Styrian Celeia and fresh cascade going in at 10 minutes. I don't have the gall to predict the IBUs, but it's on the hoppy/bitter side of a saison, likely over 10 IBUs. And this was intentional, because I don't really care about the lacto taking over this beer. It came out just a hair over 1.000 and 4.22 pH, which is just fine for a brett saison. I pitched at 68 and held it at 72 (ferm room temp). The aged hops seemed to really play well with the brett strains. I wouldn't hesitate to bump it up to 75-78ºF on day 2 or 3 next time.

I already drank the 2 of the 3 gallons I brewed, the rest went into primed bottles to see how they do over a couple months. I am going to re-brew this recipe very soon though with the intent of keg-conditioning in secondary for a buddy's wedding in July.

 

[pearljam1984]

Sour Batch Kidz follow up.

So I have been at 1.006 since mid December. It’s sour and fruity with definite funk. Tasting great.

Went ahead and bottled half the fermentor, without adding anything but a bit of priming sugar.

I then took the remaining SBK and blended with a lacto/kveik kettle sour dry hopped with galaxy. Then kegged it.

The kegged blended beer is outstanding. Sour and complex with fruity notes and some funk. Galaxy gives it a boost too. A hint of farmhouse yeast in there.

I would highly recommend Sour Batch Kidz. It works quick and gives you a lot more complexity than a kettle sour.

M to come on the bottles and how they evolve.

On a side note in regards to Imperial yeast.
I just kicked a new mixed Ferm brew last week.

I took 5gal of 1.060 wort and hit with Lacto P. for 48hrs before then co-pitching Imperial Suburban Brett and 1/8th of a pouch of Imperial Loki Kveik. Sitting at 78°. 6 days in. Gravity is now at 1.014. Ph is at 3.5.

Sitting on it for a while but I'm hoping to use this batch as in developing a “house” culture for future batches.

 

[pearljam1984]

After 14 days in the bottle. Popped a small one just too get first impressions.

it’s got some different complexity sourness and funk, more tropical fruity than anything else. I under carbed a bit anticipating some gravity change.

 

[lateknightucd]

Good morning @pearljam1984, any follow up on the bottles after a few more months? I'll be brewing a rye-forward saison this week and primary fermenting with Sour Batch Kidz. My intent is to bottle-condition once terminal for a few months but wanted to get a sense for how this might have developed in the bottle over time both flavor and carbonation.

Also, did you do a vitality starter for the SBK or just pitch the pouch?

As a side note, on pitching dregs, do you prop them up or just swirl and dump?

Thanks!

 

[pearljam1984]

Good morning @pearljam1984, any follow up on the bottles after a few more months? I'll be brewing a rye-forward saison this week and primary fermenting with Sour Batch Kidz. My intent is to bottle-condition once terminal for a few months but wanted to get a sense for how this might have developed in the bottle over time both flavor and carbonation.

Also, did you do a vitality starter for the SBK or just pitch the pouch?

As a side note, on pitching dregs, do you prop them up or just swirl and dump?

Thanks!

I swirled for the bottle droegs. No, didn’t have a starter. Just pitched straight in. For what it’s worth, SBK didn’t give me any saison/farmhouse vibes.

So I opened a bottle of this about every two months since February.

From my notes, the bottles drastically improved each time. February still had a little bit of an off putting smell, first time using it, I kind of had to just leave it alone for a while, which was hard. April was better. June was really the point I would say it had turned a big corner. Even better again in September.

The last bottle I opened on this was on 11/11/2020.
It was the absolute best it has been. Very funky fruity aroma. Tart/sour but not mouth puckering bu any stretch. Dry. Not over carbonated at all.

In terms of final gravity changing after bottling, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe the gravity changed, if it did, it was maybe by just a point.
I used both kind of bottles. Regular and the higher pressure bottles. Neither bottles had any issues and none exploded.

Overall, I think the SBK is solid and plan to use again. Hard to tell how much impact the bottle droegs had, but assume some.
I wish I had all the bottles that I tried over the course of the year. Because I’d honestly say the way it drank in November, is easily aligned with some bottles you can buy from small craft brewers.

 

[Dgallo]

I swirled for the bottle droegs. No, didn’t have a starter. Just pitched straight in. For what it’s worth, SBK didn’t give me any saison/farmhouse vibes.

So I opened a bottle of this about every two months since February.

From my notes, the bottles drastically improved each time. February still had a little bit of an off putting smell, first time using it, I kind of had to just leave it alone for a while, which was hard. April was better. June was really the point I would say it had turned a big corner. Even better again in September.

The last bottle I opened on this was on 11/11/2020.
It was the absolute best it has been. Very funky fruity aroma. Tart/sour but not mouth puckering bu any stretch. Dry. Not over carbonated at all.

In terms of final gravity changing after bottling, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe the gravity changed, if it did, it was maybe by just a point.
I used both kind of bottles. Regular and the higher pressure bottles. Neither bottles had any issues and none exploded.

Overall, I think the SBK is solid and plan to use again. Hard to tell how much impact the bottle droegs had, but assume some.
I wish I had all the bottles that I tried over the course of the year. Because I’d honestly say the way it drank in November, is easily aligned with some bottles you can buy from small craft brewers.

Isn’t sour batch kids a LAB Strain and contains no Brett. If so that’s why you didn’t get the saison/farmhouse profiles

 

[pearljam1984]

Isn’t sour batch kids a LAB Strain and contains no Brett. If so that’s why you didn’t get the saison/farmhouse profiles

No. It has brett and Lacto and farmhouse yeast. I was simply letting him know I didn’t get any farmhouse yeast vibes. Since he is planning for a saison.

 

[Dgallo]

No. It has brett and Lacto and farmhouse yeast. I was simply letting him know I didn’t get any farmhouse yeast vibes. Since he is planning for a saison.

Thanks for letting me know. Just looked it up and shows it has 2 types of Brett. Idk why I always thought it was a lab strain with Belgian yeast

 

[lateknightucd]

I swirled for the bottle droegs. No, didn’t have a starter. Just pitched straight in. For what it’s worth, SBK didn’t give me any saison/farmhouse vibes.

So I opened a bottle of this about every two months since February.

From my notes, the bottles drastically improved each time. February still had a little bit of an off putting smell, first time using it, I kind of had to just leave it alone for a while, which was hard. April was better. June was really the point I would say it had turned a big corner. Even better again in September.

The last bottle I opened on this was on 11/11/2020.
It was the absolute best it has been. Very funky fruity aroma. Tart/sour but not mouth puckering bu any stretch. Dry. Not over carbonated at all.

In terms of final gravity changing after bottling, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t believe the gravity changed, if it did, it was maybe by just a point.
I used both kind of bottles. Regular and the higher pressure bottles. Neither bottles had any issues and none exploded.

Overall, I think the SBK is solid and plan to use again. Hard to tell how much impact the bottle droegs had, but assume some.
I wish I had all the bottles that I tried over the course of the year. Because I’d honestly say the way it drank in November, is easily aligned with some bottles you can buy from small craft brewers.

Thanks for the follow up. That sounds great!

 

[goodolarchie]

Straight from the source:

Sour Batch Kidz is a blend of 50% B66-Filibuster, and equal parts: Lacto, Brett Lambics, Brett. Clausenni, and Suburban Brett. Filibister is the Saison DuPont strain which is notorious for stalling basically exactly at 1.030 every time. We did this on purpose to allow for plenty of residual sugars for the bretts to munch on and create a complex flavor profile over the 4-6 months it needs to develop a great flavor profile.

 

[lateknightucd]

Thanks I appreciate that. I was planning on a 156 F mash to provide some non-fermentables for the bugs but I might settle in closer 152-154 if there's an expected Sacc stall.

 

[pearljam1984]

Thanks I appreciate that. I was planning on a 156 F mash to provide some non-fermentables for the bugs but I might settle in closer 152-154 if there's an expected Sacc stall.

I didn’t experience the stall myself. It was down to 1.014 in 8 days. though I posted mashing at 148°, my notes say 150°. Which either way is highly fermentable.

I’ll also add that I used BB Funk Weapon #2 on a very similar wort last spring. I also added Trillium spontaneous beer droegs. It was ok, and maybe will get a lot better, but 9months in is no where near the Sour Batch Kidz was at that point.

I was able to get Sour Solera Blend Fall 2015, and I am preparing two batches with that blend. Do a side by side with one just the Bootleg yeast, and the other will be the bootleg yeast + bottle droegs. See if it has any meaningful impact.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

finally pitching my SBK pouch. Grist was super thick and malty used two packs of belgian dry yeast now day 14 pitching SBK with 4lbs of dried unsweetened cherries and a simple syrup to get things amoving. Pretty excited to see how she goes in like June

 

[Dgallo]

finally pitching my SBK pouch. Grist was super thick and malty used two packs of belgian dry yeast now day 14 pitching SBK with 4lbs of dried unsweetened cherries and a simple syrup to get things amoving. Pretty excited to see how she goes in like June

Holy cow. I thought you fell off the face of the earth. Glad to see you post again

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Holy cow. I thought you fell off the face of the earth. Glad to see you post again

Hey man good to be seen.

Really was slacking on my brewing after we moved finally getting back into the swing of it again. Hows the little one?

 

[goodolarchie]

Not sure if this is true, but I got word here from my Portland LHBS that SBK "brand" will be discontinued, they'll have to release it under a new name, Imperial might have gotten a C&D from the candy co. Not sure on the timeline but I imagine it will take a couple months to show back up in homebrew pouches. It looks like it's still for sale from vendors, and it's on their website.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

So my beer using this is now at almost 8 months in the fermenter, thinking about bottling one of these weekends...pretty hopeful per the above that this much time will give the beer a nice complexity.

 

[goodolarchie]

My impression is that it has wonderful complexity (lots of pithy zest, hint of funk, good clean citric like acidity if you kept IBUs low) at even 2 months in. I haven't noticed it "ripen" much after 6+ months, where you start noticing new layers of flavor and aroma, but more time is always good for brett! To that end it's always been the strain I recommend to anybody who wants to try making their first funky beer, due to how performant it is, as most folks making their first are impatient.

Also looks like I was correct about the C&D, and it's now rebranded as Sour Batch

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/wild-sour/sour-batch/

 

[suprchunk]

Thank you for this. I brewed with this yeast last year and have yet to crack the tap to test it. You've piqued my interest and I may have to try it out.

 

[suprchunk]

Still haven't kegged mine, but I'm in the middle of moving so I'll probably take a bit out of the fermentation vessel to see before lugging it up.