I'm done with AG.

[Foreigner]

It can be frustrating. But the possible frustration leads to a bigger smile of satisfaction when it works.

You can make some awesome beers with extract or partial mash tho, so good luck to you with whatever you choose.

 

[Beerrific]

So, I am new to AG too, but I thought I might throw something out that could help...

Do you make any corrections for pH?
I know some people see >10% increase in efficiency when they get that straight. I have done one AG and used Five Stars pH5.2, my efficiency came out to 68%, but other things went kind of wrong.

Also, I buy from Austin Homebrew. I think their crush is OK, I guess it could be finer but it is not as bad as some pictures I have seen posted here.

As far as batch sparging, I think you want to drain as fast as possible, no need to wait around and let the temp drop. When you fly sparge you do have to go slower.

 

[Willsellout]

So, I am new to AG too, but I thought I might throw something out that could help...

Do you make any corrections for pH?
I know some people see >10% increase in efficiency when they get that straight. I have done one AG and used Five Stars pH5.2, my efficiency came out to 68%, but other things went kind of wrong.

Also, I buy from Austin Homebrew. I think their crush is OK, I guess it could be finer but it is not as bad as some pictures I have seen posted here.

As far as batch sparging, I think you want to drain as fast as possible, no need to wait around and let the temp drop. When you fly sparge you do have to go slower.

I actually used the 5 star as well on this batch. I honestly think the crush isn't fine enough for my system. Also I need to convert my 10 gallon cooler, because the 5 gallon ran out of space today...man it was a rough brew day.

OK, so I will order ingredients for a simple APA. 90% 2 row and what else? Anyone have a tasty recipe? I'm think some Summit and Amarillo hops?


Dan

 

[Willsellout]

OK so I boiled for another hour, cooled and transferred to primary. Wound up with just under 5 gallons and an OG of 1.047. I ran out of O2 while aerating...par for the course today I suppose.
I honestly didn't think a Hefe was that complicated, but after doing the multi step...I am thinking differently. Especially with my 5 gallon cooler, I would have had better luck with the 10 gal.



Dan

 

[EdWort]

Before you give up, give my Haus Pale Ale a try. Brain Dead Simple with dry yeast and a single infusion.

 

[Biermann]

Before you give up, give my Haus Pale Ale a try. Brain Dead Simple with dry yeast and a single infusion.

Yeah, don't give up yet. . . My last several batches have been single infusion, and there are some pretty nice dry strains out there now--- I call these confidence-building batches.

My .02 worth on this-- It took me awhile to really dial in my system. In the meanwhile, I had a lot of frustrations, effeciency problems, etc. Trouble shoot your methods, figure out your dead spaces, your water volumes, boil times, and ALWAYS do a LOONNNNNG sparge (the longer the better), and I think you'll find more satisfaction.

AG is not hard, but there's a learning curve that few can master after just 3 batches.

Good luck!

 

[david_42]

I've been doing AG for years and still do PM for most of my batches. I save AG for recipes (like BRR) that have high levels of adjuncts, specialty grains or are just small. I know homebrewers that have brewed for decades & never gone to AG. I've mentioned the Collaborator project Widmer runs, at least one of this year's selection was an extract recipe. That's common.

This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Obsessing over AG isn't my idea of fun. If you get good results with PM, do it that way.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'll accept that maybe AG isn't for everyone but you owe it to yourself to give it a couple more tries. Forget the step mash.

I had a similar moment of distress when I hacked up a stout recipe (2nd all grain) and used too many unfermentables. I kegged it 3 months ago and still have 4.5 gallons in the keg. However, my first and third (IPA and Pilsner respectively) were totally drinkable and better than any extracts. Finally, the 4th was my favorite brew to date.. an American Amber. You just have to persist.

 

[FlyGuy]

Before you give up, give my Haus Pale Ale a try. Brain Dead Simple with dry yeast and a single infusion.

Yes, I second this recommendation. I have done this brew twice now, and it is great. The more recent version was done with Amarillo hops instead of Cascade, and it is fantastic. I am (literally) working on a pint right now.

This is as simple and tasty a recipe as you will find!

 

[Ryanh1801]

But the frustration is half the fun. I would do what makes it fun, if all grain isn't fun, then I see no reason to stick with it.

 

[Willsellout]

Before you give up, give my Haus Pale Ale a try. Brain Dead Simple with dry yeast and a single infusion.

I don't know Ed...this Hefe recipe I took from you and didn't have too good of luck:cross:
I looked up the recipe. I might give it a try after converting my 10 gal rubbermaid cooler.


Dan

 

[Yeast Infection]

also....in terms of having to much volume and have to take it out of your primary and boil more.....Try marking your boil pot in 1 gallon increments. Very helpful and you can see where your volumes are at all times.
Maybe some one on on this forum who lives near you could give you a hand one day. I always brew with one of my buddies and it helps out alot having 2 sets of hands and 2 minds(usually). Keep with it though...I think most people first few AG are not all too good, mine were not. Then I did a simple IPA recipe and I was wowed.

 

[Willsellout]

also....in terms of having to much volume and have to take it out of your primary and boil more.....Try marking your boil pot in 1 gallon increments. Very helpful and you can see where your volumes are at all times.
Maybe some one on on this forum who lives near you could give you a hand one day. I always brew with one of my buddies and it helps out alot having 2 sets of hands and 2 minds(usually). Keep with it though...I think most people first few AG are not all too good, mine were not. Then I did a simple IPA recipe and I was wowed.

Yeah that's where I went wrong really. If I knew how much I had, I could have boiled it all off. But instead I eyeballed it and found out how off I was. I am going to buy a SS ruler and measure inches at each gallon mark so I can just dip it in the wort and see where I'm at.


Dan

 

[EdWort]

I don't know Ed...this Hefe recipe I took from you and didn't have too good of luck:cross:
I looked up the recipe. I might give it a try after converting my 10 gal rubbermaid cooler.

My Hefe is just as simple except the liquid yeast. I use a single infusion mash on the Hefe too. It got better when I went to a 10 gallon cooler though.

You do need to stir several times during the yeast and you need to calculate how much water will be absorbed by the grain and the rice hulls soak up a bunch.

 

[Willsellout]

My Hefe is just as simple except the liquid yeast. I use a single infusion mash on the Hefe too. It got better when I went to a 10 gallon cooler though.

You do need to stir several times during the yeast and you need to calculate how much water will be absorbed by the grain and the rice hulls soak up a bunch.

Yeah I did the extra protein rest on this instead of following your recipe of a single infusion mash. I am going to convert my 10 gal cooler this weekend, order the supplies for your haus pale ale and brew next weekend hopefully.


Dan

 

[Reidman]

Sounds like you're going to give it another go which is good. I just finished my first AG batch this past weekend and although I cussed at times and felt like it wasn't worth it, I also knew that my first time wouldn't be a cake walk either. I know it's not your first attempt but 3 batches is still green to the process I would think.

There are a ton of factors to consider but once you get everything down (which you will if you keep at it) then it will probably get easier and easier. But when it's all said and done, you should really just do what makes you happy regardless of how well it works for others.

Personally, despite an 8hr brew day and sore back and feet by the end of it, I can't wait to try another AG batch and improve my efficiency and technique. I haven't tasted it yet but I expect goodness..

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

And, come to mention it, what's this "efficiency" I see mentioned here and there?

Seriously, Will, with all due respect to you, first of all you seem to be forgetting Charlie Papazian's rule (RDWHAHB).

There are two major decisions I have made in my life that I am very, very happy about. The first was refusing to keep score in golf ever again. It is so much more relaxing to walk a beautiful golf course hitting that pretty little ball around the links without ruining it with the stress of knowing how poorly I'm doing.

The second, more recent decision, came when I started brewing. I know this is heresy around here, but I never use a hydrometer. I have no idea what my OG is or my efficiency or anything like that. I just brew beer and drink it. For me, beer is not science (although I know there is a lot of science involved), but it's really just cooking as far as I'm concerned. I do it for two reasons. First, because I enjoy the process and second, because I enjoy drinking the results.

As long as I like the beer I make, I'm happy.

As for how AG batches compare to extract, my first batches seem to be turning out better than my extract brews did. I've been trying to keep things simple and to use good ingredients (two of my first three batches were made with Maris Otter as the base malt).

If your beers are not coming out strong enough, why worry so much about efficiency? Why not put a little more grain in if your cooler is big enough or put a little extract in your boil?

On the other hand, if someone gets enjoyment from trying to wring every last bit of efficiency out of a pound of grain, more power to them. But Will, you don't seem to really be enjoying that very much.

Keep on brewing, though!

 

[Willsellout]

Well the efficiency thing bugs me because I planned for 60%, which is lower than what I hit my past two brews. First brew was 75% second was 65%. I use the efficiency and hydro for a couple reasons. I use the hydro and efficiency to ensure that I am getting what I aimed for, and to recognize and correct any problems. I was actually pretty relaxed all morning, the brew was going allright until the whole having to boil a second time thing.
I am going to try one more time and see if I can't improve and make a good AG beer. I am going to order from a different supplier, convert a 10 gal cooler and hopefully I will get a better crush and things will go better. But who knows, this Hefe still might be a kick ass beer.


Dan

 

[Schlenkerla]

I know this is heresy around here, but I never use a hydrometer. I have no idea what my OG is or my efficiency or anything like that. I just brew beer and drink it.

I'm just getting into AG now just so I can obsess over the details. I'm stepping into it slowly. Reading up on and doing all the planning I can ahead of time.

JP's website is good reading:
http://www.howtobrew.com

If I plan to do something different I write/type it out with a check list to mark off as I go and keep notes. Plan the brewing and brew to the plan. Kind of takes the chaos out the process if the something goes wrong. Fall back reminder of what's next.

I think some people try to jump from basic brewing, steeping, PM's then AG w/o spending much time in each phase. Not making mistakes early enough in the game to learn from it or to completely understand the process. Then only to be disappointed later when something goes wrong and its a rookie mistake.

I'm not saying this is any of you, it just an observation of people who haven't been brewing long and seen a need to go AG because all the hype.

My advice is like many others, do what you like doing. Another urge will come after a week passes and you figure what you need to do differently. If you don't have the time for a long brewing session, brew a PM or your favorite extract. Keep your supply up in HB.

A bad day of brewing is better than a good day at work!!!

 

[AGBrewer]

Glad to see that your giving it another shot, I had the same attitude as McCall when I did my first AG Batch, I had a blast doing it, never used a hydrometer, and the beer tastes just like water, I feel your pain trust me. But my next batch although I missed my OG by a little was awesome. Brew On

 

[Cheesefood]

If I can throw in an opinion, it sounds more like you're ready to get serious about the procedures than you are to give up on it.

I noticed that milling REALLY can make a difference. Especially if you've got a good drill. At this point, think about whether you want to give it all up or make a few more investments and hit that mythical benchmark that the good homebrewers know how to hit?

It's frustrating, but the real goal of brewing is being able to produce the best, most consistant recipes possible.

You'll hit it. Take some more time off to study it.

 

[Willsellout]

I'm not going to invest in a mill just yet. I need to produce a beer to justify a 150 dollar purchase. Don't get me wrong, I love the process of AG...but what I need right now is something that isn't going to get screwed up. I just don't have the time. I am going to order some supplies, wait a week or so and try again. I'm also hoping this hefe comes out as well.


Dan

 

[Orfy]

Why not just do a tried and tested recipe with easy to use ingredients that you know you'll like.

Prove you can do it and make good beer then go for some of the more difficult stuff later.

KISS.

 

[Willsellout]

Why not just do a tried and tested recipe with easy to use ingredients that you know you'll like.

Prove you can do it and make good beer then go for some of the more difficult stuff later.

KISS.

I'm going to go with Edworts haus pale ale. Simple single infusion mash. Part of my problem is that I get a little too anxious with stuff. Couple this with the fact that I've been a bit lazy with my preparations for brewing and you have a recipe for disaster.



Dan

 

[Orfy]

This may sound daft but I think it's a mind set thing.

I won't brew if I'm flustered or flapping. I have to be calm and focused especially if I'm going to do a 4 hour session.

It's a dicapline and I need to visualise how the session is going to go before I start.

RDWHAHB.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I'd talk to your HBS and tell them that you keep getting low efficency and see if they can set the crush finer.

I'd also suggest draining you mash before adding your sparge water (and adding all of it at once), this may add a few points.

How well are you stirring the mash before letting it settle then recircuclating and setting the grain bed?

I'd swear it's your crush though. Most of these places leave there mill at one setting and since various malts have different plumpness, this can lead to a poor crush on certain grains. How crushed does the grain seem?

I leave mine on one setting, but I crush fairly fine so it's not really an issue for me.

I'd try and find another AG'r in your area to come over and give you a hand, odds are an experienced AG'r could figure out the low effiency problem if they could come over.

 

[blefferd]

who use's a hydrometer anyways?!?! i sure dont lol! i go for the finished overall product

 

[brewt00l]

That's the tough part. I called AHB the last recipe I made and told them my routine and suggested it might be the crush and he said that it was that I was draining my batch sparge too quickly. Everything I've read says that with batch sparges, it doesn't matter how quickly you drain...but even so, I drained slow today and had the same efficiency problems.



Dan

FWIW, all three of my AG brews have been with milled grain from Austin. The first batch efficiency was so so (all due to my technique or lack there of..btw). The last two were 75%+. I am using a SS braid/cooler w/ batch sparging too.

I say hang in there and keep on swinging!

 

[FlyGuy]

Right on, Dan -- glad to hear you will give it another shot!

You know what, I'll add something else too -- FAR too many people here obsess about efficiency. It is almost like people treat efficiency like it is some measure of your brewing skill (almost like it is a grade on an exam). That's so wrong.

What is important is that you can be CONSISTENT. If you achieve 70% efficiency, but you hit it all the time, that's most important! It means you will be able to adjust your recipes to exactly the taste you want in your brews every time.

It is true that improving your efficiency is more economical in the long run. But not in the short term. It takes an awful lot of brewing to recoup the cost of a grain mill if it only improves your efficiency by 5 or 10%!

And high efficiency does NOT equate to a better beer. But achieving a CONSISTENT efficiency will make you a better brewer.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

I went to AG back in Dec. I didn't even check my efficiency untill my 8th or 9th batch. I was more concerned with getting my process down than weather or not I was hitting my numbers. Now I am working on dialing in my system and increasing my efficiency. Just don't let it get to you.