I'm done with AG.

[Schlenkerla]

This may sound daft but I think it's a mind set thing.

I won't brew if I'm flustered or flapping. I have to be calm and focused especially if I'm going to do a 4 hour session.

It's a dicapline and I need to visualise how the session is going to go before I start.

RDWHAHB.

I think this is no BS. I like to brew with SWMBO out of the house. I don't need the constant distraction about the dog or clothes in washer needing to go in the dryer, etc.

Not being keyed up too, especially if you have an evening comittment or are upset about something. This is an easy way to f-up.

I usually have the stereo going, as I get one or two beers in me I'm reviewing the recipe or steps that I've rewritten, then I fire things up.

Plan the time accordingly plus some extra for what ifs. A simple infusion mash will seem too easy..... but that's OK that's how you want it to be!

 

[Willsellout]

I'd talk to your HBS and tell them that you keep getting low efficency and see if they can set the crush finer.

I'd also suggest draining you mash before adding your sparge water (and adding all of it at once), this may add a few points.

How well are you stirring the mash before letting it settle then recircuclating and setting the grain bed?

I'd swear it's your crush though. Most of these places leave there mill at one setting and since various malts have different plumpness, this can lead to a poor crush on certain grains. How crushed does the grain seem?

I leave mine on one setting, but I crush fairly fine so it's not really an issue for me.

I'd try and find another AG'r in your area to come over and give you a hand, odds are an experienced AG'r could figure out the low effiency problem if they could come over.

Well I would have liked to have added all my sparge water, but I was limited by my 5 gallon cooler. This won't be an issue next brew as I am converting my 10 gal this weekend. My technique goes soemthing like this:
Drain
Pour in sparge water, stir for a couple of minutes at least and the let sit for maybe 5 minutes. Then I varlauf a couple of times to clear the runnings a bit.
Then drain at about a quart a minute
Then repeat once more.



Dan

 

[Willsellout]

This may sound daft but I think it's a mind set thing.

I won't brew if I'm flustered or flapping. I have to be calm and focused especially if I'm going to do a 4 hour session.

It's a dicapline and I need to visualise how the session is going to go before I start.

RDWHAHB.

That's completely reasonable to say. When I was brewing yesterday, everything was going along fairly smoothly so I was in a pretty relaxed mood the whole time until it came time to transfer. There were a few little snags, but I wasn't expecting it to be perfect.


Dan

 

[Willsellout]

Right on, Dan -- glad to hear you will give it another shot!

You know what, I'll add something else too -- FAR too many people here obsess about efficiency. It is almost like people treat efficiency like it is some measure of your brewing skill (almost like it is a grade on an exam). That's so wrong.

What is important is that you can be CONSISTENT. If you achieve 70% efficiency, but you hit it all the time, that's most important! It means you will be able to adjust your recipes to exactly the taste you want in your brews every time.

It is true that improving your efficiency is more economical in the long run. But not in the short term. It takes an awful lot of brewing to recoup the cost of a grain mill if it only improves your efficiency by 5 or 10%!

And high efficiency does NOT equate to a better beer. But achieving a CONSISTENT efficiency will make you a better brewer.

The whole reason I was frustrated was because for my last 3 AG's, not much has been consistent. My temps, my efficiency, my volume's. I'm desperately looking for consistency...it just eludes me. I honestly don't care what my efficiency is as long as I can plan for it, I'm good.



Dan

 

[FlyGuy]

The whole reason I was frustrated was because for my last 3 AG's, not much has been consistent. My temps, my efficiency, my volume's. I'm desperately looking for consistency...it just eludes me. I honestly don't care what my efficiency is as long as I can plan for it, I'm good.

Dan

Dan, that's great. You have the right mindset.

Try brewing some simple and similar recipes to start. Also having that 10 gal MLT is going to help tremendously. It sounds like you have the whole process down.

One other tip -- how you mix your grain and water matters tremendously too -- I assume that you are adding your grain to the water (preferably in stages: water then grain, water then grain, etc.).

Anyways, I am pretty certain that if you make all your next recipes simple -- i.e., single infusions, single sparges (i.e., < 1.060), etc. -- then you are going to zero in on your efficiency and make some great beer. Perhaps part of your problem with the last three brews is that your recipes and techniques are too variable. As a previous poster mentioned, using lots of wheat and doing a multi-step mash is going to affect your consistency. You need to try those after you know how your system works.

Best of luck man! Glad that your hanging in there!

 

[Willsellout]

Thanks. I just ordered the grains for Ed's Haus Pale ale. Going for 60% efficiency I ordered
9.5 lb 2 row
2 lb vienna
.5 lb Crystal 60
Hops will be
1 oz cascade at 60
.5 oz at 30
.25 oz amarillo at 15
.25 oz amarillo at 5

The only thing I changed was the Amarillo for flavor and aroma. It's simple and sounds delicious.

And if anyone wants to know, the Hefe is fermenting nicely with a thich creamy kreusen. I'm all ready with my blowoff hose, but don't think I'll need it.

Dan

 

[Jay52]

Sorry to hear of your problems, Dan.

Nothing wrong with doing mostly PMs, especially if it produces better beer and you can get enjoyment from the process. However, nothing says you can't do the occasional, SIMPLE, AG batch.

My longtime hobby is astrophotography, which I guarantee is one of the toughest hobbies you'll ever find. The difficulty comes in all the variables at play, from mount-tracking performance, atmospheric stability, proper focus, hardware/software control issues, guiding, etc. To get good, you have to turn as many variables into constants that you can, meaning that putting money into a good mount, or finding a procedure for repeatable focus, for example, are extremely important. Even then, it can take years of figuring out how to acquire good data...and that doesn't even consider the processing skills you have to learn!

I say that to say this...while brewing doesn't HAVE to be such an exacting science, consistency in AG brewing is very much the same...you must eliminate the variables. It's hard to be consistent if you are unsure about the quality of your grind everytime, among a hundred other things, and it certainly doesn't help if you add more variables by choosing wheat-based brews and step-mashes.

I have friends who hit their AG measurements with such consistency that it's quite amazing, and it produces very repeatable results...but that comes with practice. While I'm not there yet myself, I have to remind myself that I didn't start taking good astrophotos right off the bat either.

In the meantime, choose recipes that fit well into your schedule, be it AG or otherwise, and eliminate the most variables that you can.

 

[brewitall]

I'm relieved you're sticking with AG for now. If you quit AG, it's only a matter of time before you quit brewing, if you quit brewing, it's a short trip to quit drinking.

Friends don't let friends, or random internet forum aquaintences, quit the things they love.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Well I would have liked to have added all my sparge water, but I was limited by my 5 gallon cooler. This won't be an issue next brew as I am converting my 10 gal this weekend. My technique goes soemthing like this:
Drain
Pour in sparge water, stir for a couple of minutes at least and the let sit for maybe 5 minutes. Then I varlauf a couple of times to clear the runnings a bit.
Then drain at about a quart a minute
Then repeat once more.



Dan

Were you stirring etc for each sparge water addition?

How much wort did you collect in the kettle? Perhaps you need more sparge water and should do a longer boil. Do you happen to know what the SG of the runnings were when the sparge was done? (from the sparge not what is in the kettle).

 

[Alamo_Beer]

I brewed Edwort's hefe as my first AG....it was REALLY ghetto rigged. I did it in a 15lb grain sack and used my boil kettle as the MLT. I used a big bowl and a collender to sparge with.

It was really ghetto and I've got no idea what my efficiency was but it is a great beer, one of the best I've brewed so far.

So, I'm sure your hefe will turn out fine.

Good luck!

 

[Willsellout]

Were you stirring etc for each sparge water addition?

How much wort did you collect in the kettle? Perhaps you need more sparge water and should do a longer boil. Do you happen to know what the SG of the runnings were when the sparge was done? (from the sparge not what is in the kettle).

I was stirring after each sparge. As far as running collected, right around 6 gallons collected. I don't know the runnings readings though.


Dan

 

[Willsellout]

I brewed Edwort's hefe as my first AG....it was REALLY ghetto rigged. I did it in a 15lb grain sack and used my boil kettle as the MLT. I used a big bowl and a collender to sparge with.

It was really ghetto and I've got no idea what my efficiency was but it is a great beer, one of the best I've brewed so far.

So, I'm sure your hefe will turn out fine.

Good luck!

Yeah well it's fermenting away. I just had to rig the blowoff hose on it, luckily it happened in the middle of the day.
I'm sure it will turn out good, it's just the brew day was rough.


Dan

 

[Willsellout]

I'm relieved you're sticking with AG for now. If you quit AG, it's only a matter of time before you quit brewing, if you quit brewing, it's a short trip to quit drinking.

Friends don't let friends, or random internet forum aquaintences, quit the things they love.

Quitting brewing and drinking would be like trying to quit sex..it just wouldn't happen


Dan

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Hey Dan, on your next brew try and sample the runnigs just before the sparge ends. I've noticed with looser crushes that you may need to use more sparge water and do a longer boil to get your target.

Below 1.010 can lead to tannin extraction (technically it has to do with PH chages but 1.010 is a god rule fo thumb) so you want to try and stay above that, but if it's at something like 1.030 etc, then you need to use more sparge water and will have to boil longer to get it down to 5g.

 

[Willsellout]

Hey Dan, on your next brew try and sample the runnigs just before the sparge ends. I've noticed with looser crushes that you may need to use more sparge water and do a longer boil to get your target.

Below 1.010 can lead to tannin extraction (technically it has to do with PH chages but 1.010 is a god rule fo thumb) so you want to try and stay above that, but if it's at something like 1.030 etc, then you need to use more sparge water and will have to boil longer to get it down to 5g.

I will make sure and take a reading at then end runnings.



Dan

 

[Reidman]

Hey Dan, on your next brew try and sample the runnigs just before the sparge ends. I've noticed with looser crushes that you may need to use more sparge water and do a longer boil to get your target.

Below 1.010 can lead to tannin extraction (technically it has to do with PH chages but 1.010 is a god rule fo thumb) so you want to try and stay above that, but if it's at something like 1.030 etc, then you need to use more sparge water and will have to boil longer to get it down to 5g.

That's good information.

I'll have to keep it in mind on my next batch.
I was wondering how one knew they were done sparging besides going off gallons in the kettle.

 

[Willsellout]

That's good information.

I'll have to keep it in mind on my next batch.
I was wondering how one knew they were done sparging besides going off gallons in the kettle.

I use the starch test to make sure everything is converted.



Dan

 

[Jaybird]

you bitch ( I mean that in the nicest possiable way) you still got my number??
Call my cell
JJ

 

[Jaybird]

Right on, Dan -- glad to hear you will give it another shot!

You know what, I'll add something else too -- FAR too many people here obsess about efficiency. It is almost like people treat efficiency like it is some measure of your brewing skill (almost like it is a grade on an exam). That's so wrong.

What is important is that you can be CONSISTENT. If you achieve 70% efficiency, but you hit it all the time, that's most important! It means you will be able to adjust your recipes to exactly the taste you want in your brews every time.

It is true that improving your efficiency is more economical in the long run. But not in the short term. It takes an awful lot of brewing to recoup the cost of a grain mill if it only improves your efficiency by 5 or 10%!

And high efficiency does NOT equate to a better beer. But achieving a CONSISTENT efficiency will make you a better brewer.

Well freeken said!!!:rockin:

 

[Willsellout]

you bitch ( I mean that in the nicest possiable way) you still got my number??
Call my cell
JJ

Yeah I do...I was wondering if you'd show up. I still have to get my CFC and a hopstopper to use the Keg you got me. I have too much stuff that I want and not enough money


Dan

 

[Jaybird]

Yeah I do...I was wondering if you'd show up. I still have to get my CFC and a hopstopper to use the Keg you got me. I have too much stuff that I want and not enough money


Dan

ya ya ya what ever hows that baby doin??? thats the important $#!^ beer is secondry, ya I said it and you can QUOTE me we can get you through this crap I just brewed an amarican brown yesterday and hit every target on the nose and let me tell ya brother if I can do it you sure as hell can!!!!:rockin:
JJ

 

[Willsellout]

ya ya ya what ever hows that baby doin??? thats the important $#!^ beer is secondry, ya I said it and you can QUOTE me we can get you through this crap I just brewed an amarican brown yesterday and hit every target on the nose and let me tell ya brother if I can do it you sure as hell can!!!!:rockin:
JJ

The baby is good although after the trip she got a cold .
I am going to to try again with a simple recipe and hopefully things come out good. I'm on the verge of buying a Barley Crusher, but I want at least one outstanding beer to justify it. Is that so wrong?



Da

 

[Jaybird]

I'm on the verge of buying a Barley Crusher, but I want at least one outstanding beer to justify it. Is that so wrong?

Da

best investment in brewing (except maybe that keggle.. LOL) you will make ... My effs have jumped to 85% and have stayed there or better. there might be a couple of things we can do to help. give me the run down on you recipes IE qts per # and such and mash temps as well. But you do have to realize this stuff your brewing on is fairly new to you isent it? therefor there will be a learning curve.
JJ

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I use the starch test to make sure everything is converted.

Yes to tell if it's converted you use idoine. But I was talking about testing to see if the sugars are extracted during sparging.

 

[Willsellout]

best investment in brewing (except maybe that keggle.. LOL) you will make ... My effs have jumped to 85% and have stayed there or better. there might be a couple of things we can do to help. give me the run down on you recipes IE qts per # and such and mash temps as well. But you do have to realize this stuff your brewing on is fairly new to you isent it? therefor there will be a learning curve.
JJ

Well it's hard to tell as all my recipes have been of someone else's making. Quarts per pound are normally about 1.5 and mash temps normally are sitting right in the middle at about 155. All the brews I've done are probably more than I needed and more than I wanted. I have yet to make a simple single infusion brew. This is why I'm going with Ed's Haus PA for my next brew. If I can't get it done with that, then I know I'm doing to something wrong.


Dan

 

[drayman86]

Wanted to share my experiences with designing and using an AG system.


Brew partner has been doing PM for several years. I encouraged him to expand into AG in partnership with me.

We researched designs, opitons, etc. He'd seen a 3 tier rack system in use before, so we decided to go with that.

We knew there were two critical factors in efficiency: the crush and the sparge. After some thought, we went the Barley Crusher (left at factory setting) and a 10 gallon Igloo cooler with a stainless false bottom from Northern Brewer. We thought the stainless brad or manifolds wouldn't provide an even distribution of sparge water through the grain bed. Have only ever done fly sparging, which takes us just over 20 minutes even with a big beer like the Big Brew Griffin Spit IPA, which was our first.

We've done four batches, and are running at least 75-80%.

Hope this doesn't appear as bragging, just wanting to share how a couple of newbie AG brewers approached things. Also, I logged at least 15-20 hours (or more) of research on systems, AG brewing, etc. before our first batch.

 

[Orfy]

Wanted to share my experiences with designing and using an AG system.
We researched designs, opitons, etc. He'd seen a 3 tier rack system in use before, so we decided to go with that.
We've done four batches, and are running at least 75-80%.
Hope this doesn't appear as bragging, just wanting to share how a couple of newbie AG brewers approached things. Also, I logged at least 15-20 hours (or more) of research on systems, AG brewing, etc. before our first batch.

Read, read, and read then read some more.

It's the best thing a new brewer can do before getting kit or brewing.

 

[Evan!]

This might make you feel a little better about your situation.

I have to second the motion that the Barley Crusher is a great investment. Factory setting gives me excellent efficiency.

I'm thrilled that you've decided to give it another whirl. BTW, I haven't followed every post in this thread, but have you tried Five Star's PH Stabilizer? How about amylase enzyme additive? How about a stepped mash? I get my best efficiencies with the following schedule:

30 mins @ 133f
60 mins @ 148-155f
10-20 mins (or when iodine test reads negative) @ 158f.
Sparge for 10 mins.

I don't always do that, because of time, but it really helps efficiency having that rest at 130f, I think. Of course, I usually do direct-fired mashes in a kettle, so raising the temp is as easy as turning on the burner...not so easy to do when you're talking about water infusions in a cooler. Have you thought about trying out direct-fired step mashes?

Sorry if I'm behind the times on this thread, BTW.

 

[Evan!]

Read, read, and read then read some more.

It's the best thing a new brewer can do before getting kit or brewing.

Or you could just fall backwards into a mountain of badass brewing equipment.

 

[mward]

If you don't want to spend 150$ on a mill yet get a 20$ Corona off ebay and run it with a drill. I do that and consistently get 80% or better out of it. If you're worried about it going too fine throw in some rice hulls as insurance. Don't let worrying about the numbers mess with your enjoyment of this. I would be happy with 1.040 because it'd mean I get to drink more of my brew without getting hammered.

You don't need a fancy high end mill to make beer. Sure, girls like a guy driving a Maserati, but lots of girls like guys in Fords too!!