I'm as green as an alien

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Northern_Farmer

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HI so if all goes as I hope I will probably start brewing beer in 4-6 months. Buuuut probably a bit longer. I'm completely green other than the tasting part lol

I'm not sure what I will use. Maybe a picco or a brewie but possibly something more like a grainfather or a braumeister. Or maybe someone can convince me otherwise :confused:
Ive googled some stuff but havent been able to find much info for someone as green as me.

I dont want to have a setup that I need to constantly babysit. I know all the ones I mentioned above I can monitor via smartphone which I like. But the picco seems small for the price and I dont like the "keurig cartridge" style. I want to have more input than "look what my robot made"

My biggest reason to start brewing is that beer is taxed to the nuts here in canada and I pay ~$2+/355ml can (12oz.) and thats not even craft. As far as I see it I pay plenty of taxes already. So I'm not worried about the initial input but for sure not buying a Brewmagic for $7000. Please don't confuse biggest reason for only reason either cause theres plenty of reasons I got.

Maybe I should just ask..... where do I start? what should I be aware of? or maybe what questions should I ask?:confused:

Any pointers or pieces of knowledge would be much appreciated.. Thank you very much :mug:
 
I've been brewing for 2 weeks--and I haven't even tasted my first homebrew yet. Bottled some today, it tastes great warm and not carbonated.

You sound a little like me--I didn't want the cheapest thing out there to see if I liked it or not. When I've played that game in the past, I've always regretted it, and had equipment I wish I'd never bought. So consider a kit that comes with a recipe so you have everything you need. Then you can move from there.

I bought a kit from Northern Brewer with everything I needed except for bottles, a pot and a burner. I bought a Megapot w/ ball valve and thermometer. In other words, not a piece of cheap stuff.

You might try that. So far, it has worked for me.
 
The best place to start is by googling and reading "How to brew" its free online. It will give you everything from basic to mid level brewing advice and information. Its the best starting point. Then start asking away.
 
I'm in the camp that suggests starting with a brewing equipment kit and doing some extract kits at first.

Everything you get with the equipment kit can still be used if you go to an automated system, with the exception of the pot, and that can be used for other purposes.

If you do want to jump into the deep end with all-grain automated systems there are several to choose from.

I have a BrewBoss and that's the only one I'm familiar with. You can monitor it with an iPad or the included tablet and it is mostly automated. There are several youtube videos showing it in action. I like the fact that it is made up of discrete components that could be used to brew manually if everything went south with the controller.
 
@Mongoose33 first off congrats on your first batch. The waiting game must be tough. I did come across northern brewer when I was searching for info on the net. I will look more into them. Thank you.
I have a friend who just started a malt house so ingredients should be close by I'm thinking. I got lots of land so maybe I'll grow some malt barley and some hops too.
@Aarong I did do some googling but had a hard time finding what I needed. Maybe I should adjust my search criteria a bit. Thank you.
 
So the reason I'm waiting 4-6 months is to build a garage. I'd like to start sooner but I'm worried it will stink up my house and my wife will be furious. Would have to make a light lime flavored beer to make her appreciate the smell lol. Does it smell bad? If so does the smell linger? Might have to try the BIAB method just to get my feet wet and then move on up.
 
Even a alien might enjoy green beer. You'll even find them here asking how to brew it around March.

No use in spending a bunch before you even know if it's something you like. People don't brew to drink cheap beer or affordable beer. They brew because they want a specialized craft beer that they can sit back and smile while their buddies ask "You Really Made This?".

Use this forum like it's your ticket to college. There is not a question you have that can not be asked here. Just be prepared for multiple opinions. Do your homework yourself. Research, read, ask questions, read some more.

Buy a kit, keep it simple and brew to have fun. Toss the idea of not wanting something to babysit. It's a labor of love which will pay off.

You can buy a starter kit for about a 100 bucks. Perhaps start out with a simple extract stovetop even. If you have a very clean turkey fryer and burner even the better. It doesn't have to be expensive.

Welcome to the forum, my name is Kenny and I can tell you from experience everything you need is found right here. These guys will not spoon feed you, but they will teach you what you need to know.

Happy Brewing!

Kenny T
 
The actual brewing does release some smells, mostly from hops which can be kind of aqn evergreen scent. just like any other cooking the smell goes away quickly.

The fermentation does stink up the place a bit and there is a very real chance of having a blow-off which will make a horrible mess and get your new hobby banned from the house. Look into "blow-off tubes" to see what you need to do to preserve domestic tranquility.

You might be confusing BIAB with extract brewing. Here's a grossly oversimplified explanation...

All-grain brewing is where you start with just water and grains and make your wort from mashing the grains in the hot water. With extract brewing you use "concentrated wort" that has already been mashed for you. it's like a syrup. Along with that you use specialty grains to add certain flavors. Extract brewing is simpler because you don't have to do the mashing step, but it offers less control over the finished product.

BIAB is just an alternate way of doing all-grain. You put the grains into a bag or screened vessel and run the hot water over them.
 
I started brewing about 10 months ago after going to a homebrew class at my LHBS that was paid for as a birthday gift. Afterward, I read Palmer's "How to Brew" online 10 times and did a ton of research on extract and all-grain brewing. I decided that extract was the way for me to begin in case I didn't like the process or if something went terribly wrong. I bought an extract starter kit from the same LHBS the next week for like $100 and it's been a blast since.

My advice is don't buy anything until you've done your research and you feel ready to take the plunge. There is heaps of information out there (and here!) to answer any and all questions you have. Once you do start though, don't be scared to have fun and try new styles, brewing techniques, ingredients, etc.

As for the smell, I don't mind it. I find most extract and grains (pre-hops) smells quite nice. My wife doesn't like the smell of hops all that much so I try to schedule my brewing to when she's out for the afternoon. Otherwise she just deals with it - she must really love me to put up with it.

Welcome to the madness!
 
If you've never brewed before, jumping straight to something like a grainfather seems a bit... overkill?

You can make great all grain OR extract beer with ~$100-150 worth of equipment.

As far as 'babysitting' I don't think a system like the grainfather is going to really cut down on the amount of work you have to do on brew day. The picobrew might but really what is the fun in letting it do everything for you?

Good luck! :mug:
 
Start out with extract and steeping grains 5 gallon to get your technique down. It doesn't take a lot of equipment then move on to biab. And after that if your still into it then go all grain. Enjoy the addiction.
 
I would buy all the equipment needed to brew 5 gallon BIAB batches. It's going to cost you around $100 more than extract 5 gallon equipment. The only thing bigger is the pot and the bag is required.

As in the article posted by Brulospher; extract still tastes like extract.

'Had I known' constantly goes through my head as to why I brewed so many extract brews. The beer isn't 'bad' but it definitely isn't as good as all grain. I don't really care what anyone says to defend extract. All the beer has an extract taste regardless of style. After doing 50 or so batches I can tell you that is fact.

So I would recommend starting small with the 5 gallon batches. I have to wonder if you start BIAB you probably won't want to waste your other time doing a sparge.
 
I wouldn't say I babysit my brew. Once it's in the fermenter I have a temperature controller in a freezer that keeps it basically whatever temperature I want. I think the picobrew let's you make your own recipes. Isnt that different than the pico?
 
Elkobrewer said:
Start out with extract and steeping grains 5 gallon to get your technique down. It doesn't take a lot of equipment then move on to biab. And after that if your still into it then go all grain. Enjoy the addiction.
Click to expand...

To be clear, BIAB IS all-grain, it's just a different method for doing all-grain. There's 3-vessel all-grain and BIAB all-grain. Both start with grain, but BIAB typically doesn't have a sparge process.

OP - you've started the process correctly - do as much research as possible and ask lots of questions! Look at your environment and get the system that works for your environment. There are several other very important considerations besides the brewing system and brewing method you choose - 1 - you need a water source and drain close to your brew area. Making 5 gallons of beer can use around 15 gallons of water - cleaning gear, cooling wort, etc. 2 - it's helpful to brew near where you ferment. Carrying heavy vessels of wort up and down stairs can range from not fun to dangerous. 3 - storage - gear takes space. When the lights go off, the gear gets frisky and before you know it there's more gear!

It's fun making beer, but I also had tons of fun building my own system that fits perfectly into my brewing environment.

Good luck!
 
cyanmonkey said:
I think the picobrew let's you make your own recipes. Isnt that different than the pico?
Click to expand...

Picobrew offers two systems. The older one is Zymatic, into which you place your own ingredients. The newer is Pico, into which you place a factory-loaded step filter. Even with the Pico, you can use your own recipe - but you have to have them make the ingredient pack for you. The preloaded step filters cost $25-$35+ and shipping for a 5 liter (10 bottles?) batch. Even in Canada you might not save much at that cost. Zymatic costs (and does) more, but would be much less expensive to operate (about the same as any other all-grain setup if ingredients are purchased in bulk).
 
Northern_Farmer said:
1. I dont want to have a setup that I need to constantly babysit.

2. My biggest reason to start brewing is that beer is taxed to the nuts here in canada and I pay ~$2+/355ml can (12oz.) and thats not even craft. As far as I see it I pay plenty of taxes already. So I'm not worried about the initial input but for sure not buying a Brewmagic for $7000. Please don't confuse biggest reason for only reason either cause theres plenty of reasons I got.
Click to expand...
These seem to be the 2 most important aspects of your original post.

Don't sweat number 1 provided you have a stable mid-60s temp place in your house to ferment. After brewday you're mostly playing a waiting game unless you're swapping out ice bottles in a swamp cooler (ie large bucket with water). Not a lot of babysitting to do.

Regarding number 2 (saving $$), there have been a ton of posts on brewing inexpensively. Cheapest (and highest quality IMO) is all grain session level brews. A couple of examples are Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=42841

Orfy's Dark Mild: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=52776

That's just 2 in a library of recipes which won't break the bank and give you delicious homebrew.
 
Thank you everyone for the valuable information. I think with this I have more ideas when searching the Internet for what I truly want. Little bits of info like preventing a blow-off is great stuff to know. I got time before I start so I have started a notebook and I will gather information over the winter and I think by late spring I should hopefully be ready and have the setup I want. Who knows maybe I'll do something small on the stovetop before that if I feel I'm ready.
 
Good luck with the brewing.

I brewed extract batches for a little over a year, and brewed some excellent beers doing it. I switched to all grain, automated and I'm very happy with the results.

It sounds like you might be looking into an automated system, there are excellent videos on YouTube showing each system. I think the main players are Grainfather, BrewBoss, and Picobrew.

Happy brewing!
 
So it looks like one very important factor is having a temperature controlled area? So the garage I'm building will have a 8'x8' corner which will be about 14' high. It probably wouldn't take much to do a 2 level area in there. Thanks for all the reading material too!!
I'm thinking before I custom build an area in my garage (to be) I should most definitely do some stovetop. I learn fast and I do really well learning hands on. I think a month or 2 to swell my brain and then I will invade my wife's kitchen bwahaha.... ;)
Extract or AG.... I'll have it figured out by then. With a malt house nearby and grain everywhere I'm thinking ill educate well and attempt AG first. But who knows at this point.

I think I'm already getting excited.
 
Temp control is a big factor during the active fermentation period, usually the first three to five days after you pitch the yeast.

Different styles and different yeast strains have different temp requirements or tolerance. I like Saisons, which is a good thing because I'm in Florida. For the first two years I didn't have a temp controlled fermentation chamber and my beers came out satisfactory.

Oddly, the only temp related issue I had was one using a yeast that is notorious for liking high temps. I had to jack it up to 95 to get it to ferment.

I've now got a chest freezer with an STC1000 controller and that gives me the option of brewing a wider range of styles without worry.
 
Northern_Farmer said:
...I should most definitely do some stovetop. I learn fast and I do really well learning hands on. I think a month or 2 to swell my brain and then I will invade my wife's kitchen bwahaha.... ;)
Click to expand...

One thing I'll mention about stove-top from my own experience is gas or hot-plate stoves work best. Before we moved into our current home we hat a ceramic stove top that could not handle the weight of 15L of water plus extract. The weight would trigger the automatic shutoff every time so I ended up having to use by BBQ side burner (worked for me, but many don't recommend it).

Our current stove is hot-plate and I find it works fine for boiling.

I think I'm already getting excited.
Click to expand...

This. This is a good feeling.
 
1) learn and adopt good cleaning and sanitation techniques. To me, this is the only part of brewing which cannot be shortcut, and even with that said you don't have to have a clean-room lab in which to brew. It is not unusual for me to be eating my lunch on one side of the L-counter in the kitchen, and the other side spotless and sanitized for the batch.

2) Don't worry about messing up - you will. Here is the deal though, as long as you follow good sanitizing practices, you will brew a drinkable beer. There are as many variations on brewing as there are brewers. Yes, lagering is different than making an ale, but you will read 100 different points of view on which way is best for each one. However, at the end of the day, unless you make some godawful substitution or omission, you are going to have beer. Maybe you were shooting for a pale ale and ended up with a Belgian, but if you took good notes, you will know why and adjust next time.
 
IMO, you're running way too fast before learning to walk. Or even crawl. :tank:

I'd get an extract kit, a starter equipment kit, and a propane turkey fryer. Probably less than $250, and you can see if you even like brewing beer. And you do it outside, and your wife would hardly even notice! :D

Building a garage with a temp controlled ferm chamber and malting your own barley, and buildng hop trellises. I mean, that's a dream for even a lot of seasoned home brewers. :fro:
 
I was up and running with my first batches for well under $100. A large pot for boiling, free bucket with lid from the local bakery, bought some tubing, bubble-trap and a racking cane, thermometer, hydrometer, and the capper. Also, the Star-san and cleanser, or course, sanitation is the key for first-timers to mess things up.
 
Seriously I'm beyond baffled why anyone would recommend extract over biab. Especially on this thread.

Ignorance is bliss.

I'm almost certain that anyone recommending extract over biab who is doing all grain is probably a multi vessel/sparge brewer.
 
brewprint said:
Seriously I'm beyond baffled why anyone would recommend extract over biab. Especially on this thread.

Ignorance is bliss.

I'm almost certain that anyone recommending extract over biab who is doing all grain is probably a multi vessel/sparge brewer.
Click to expand...

I'll weigh in since I'm one of the guys you're talking about.

I urge newb's to begin with extract because:
  1. Doing extract batches requires the least amount of equipment.
  2. Almost all of the extract equipment kit can be used in the BIAB process if he decides to move up.
  3. Doing extract batches removes a lot of the variables. Limiting your variables makes troubleshooting much easier. You don't need to be concerned with grind, maintaining mash temps, sanitizing a bunch more equipment, multiple transfers of wort, etc...
  4. Regardless of what people with $4k in equipment might think, it is very easy to brew a good beer from extract.
  5. We haven't mentioned it but I also recommend bottling over kegging for the same reasons above.

...and I brew BIAB with a BrewBoss which I'll highly recommend to the OP if he does decide to move up but I remain convinced that he may would be better served by going the extract/bottling route for the first few batches.
 
Rhumbline said:
I'll weigh in since I'm one of the guys you're talking about.

I urge newb's to begin with extract because:
  1. Doing extract batches requires the least amount of equipment.
  2. Almost all of the extract equipment kit can be used in the BIAB process if he decides to move up.
  3. Doing extract batches removes a lot of the variables. Limiting your variables makes troubleshooting much easier. You don't need to be concerned with grind, maintaining mash temps, sanitizing a bunch more equipment, multiple transfers of wort, etc...
  4. Regardless of what people with $4k in equipment might think, it is very easy to brew a good beer from extract.
  5. We haven't mentioned it but I also recommend bottling over kegging for the same reasons above.

...and I brew BIAB with a BrewBoss which I'll highly recommend to the OP if he does decide to move up but I remain convinced that he may would be better served by going the extract/bottling route for the first few batches.
Click to expand...

Actually I have to disagree here on many things that you said.

How does a person make a 5 gallon batch of beer with a 5 gallon kit that comes with an extract kit? Therefore another larger pot is needed.

Multiple transfers? Explain.

I do no sparge BIAB and find anyone who is doing a sparge pointless. Unless they just didn't bother to purchase a large enough pot.

The only step that is different is lifting the grain. That's essentially the same thing as taking out the steeping grain except there's more. A pulley is usually needed.

Most people have a ladder or rafter and if they immediately start with BIAB there is no need for a muslin bag. So the things that are available can be used to lift the bag.

So as far as equipment goes. You need a mash paddle (which you could get by without), a voile or paint strainer bag, a method to lift the bag.

There are no other variables that you're talking about. Holding mash temp is the only thing which still has to be done with extract steeping grain.

I stand firm that extract is a step backwards for the beginner.
 
brewprint said:
Actually I have to disagree here on many things that you said.

How does a person make a 5 gallon batch of beer with a 5 gallon kit that comes with an extract kit? Therefore another larger pot is needed.

Multiple transfers? Explain.

I do no sparge BIAB and find anyone who is doing a sparge pointless. Unless they just didn't bother to purchase a large enough pot.

The only step that is different is lifting the grain. That's essentially the same thing as taking out the steeping grain except there's more. A pulley is usually needed.

Most people have a ladder or rafter and if they immediately start with BIAB there is no need for a muslin bag. So the things that are available can be used to lift the bag.

So as far as equipment goes. You need a mash paddle (which you could get by without), a voile or paint strainer bag, a method to lift the bag.

There are no other variables that you're talking about. Holding mash temp is the only thing which still has to be done with extract steeping grain.

I stand firm that extract is a step backwards for the beginner.
Click to expand...


You do a concentrated boil and dilute with water. A 5 gallon pot is plenty. Many people already have that size pot.
 
cyanmonkey said:
You do a concentrated boil and dilute with water. A 5 gallon pot is plenty. Many people already have that size pot.
Click to expand...

That is an extra step that would be confusing for a new brewer. Heck I don't even know how to do that.

There is no way that efficiency is going to be adequate doing that method. Even with a sparge I find that next to impossible.

My point is that if a large pot is purchased initially that takes out steps like what you're talking about.
 
brewprint said:
That is an extra step that would be confusing for a new brewer. Heck I don't even know how to do that.

There is no way that efficiency is going to be adequate doing that method. Even with a sparge I find that next to impossible.

My point is that if a large pot is purchased initially that takes out steps like what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Efficiency is not an issue with extract. You just fill the water to the 5 gallon mark and boom, you're done.
 
@Northern_Farmer - I started brewing again (after a 30-year hiatus), and now do 2.5-gallon BIAB batches on my stovetop. Skipped over extract, knowing I would get better faster if I went straight to all-grain. 2.5 gallons with a BIAB setup lets me (a) save on equipment - and, it's small enough to manhandle; (b) brew more frequently so as to fine-tune my process, improve faster, get more variety, and (c) at this batch size, I don't need a dedicated workspace in the garage (just a chest freezer for fermenting, and a place to store a few bins of gear). If someone hasn't already suggested it, you might see if you can find a local brewing club, and join someone on a brew day. With that, plus the tons of great advice you can get in this group, you can't go wrong!

Oh, and I don't think it smells up the kitchen at all...just smells like we're cooking something good.
 
brewpint seems to either be very obnoxious or just not interested in other options apart from his own idea.

When i started brewing, all i had was a 5 quart kettle, a bucket and some small junk.

Extract brewing only needs a few quarts for steeping grains/hops and the rest of the water can be added cold straight to the fermenter.
 
Biab requires a bigger kettle than extract, that's a fact, not someone's opinion.

People that I know stick with extract because they don't have room or money to get a big kettle(200 euro's or more) or cannot fit a burner/high power stove in their place.

Extract is perfectly fine brewing and makes good beer, there is no "don't want to brew" as you so arrogantly state.
 
I'm in the bizarre position of having to report my own posts as being off topic and unhelpful. I think this whole exchange is unlikely to help the OP.

Mods, can you do some cleanup here?
 

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