If you knew then what you know now...

[freudhawk]

...how would your first attempt at lagering be different?

FWIW, I've been brewing for 3 years and I'm about to do my first lager so I'm looking to avoid newbie lagering mistakes. I'll be brewing a 6 gallon batch of Ken Lenard's Home Run Red Lager (all-grain) with Southern German Lager yeast (with 2 liter starter) set to ferment at about 48F.

Thanks in advance.

 

[menschmaschine]

Chill the wort to near-fermentation temps before pitching yeast (like 55°F or less).

Also, anything remotely German-lagery, I use Saflager W-34/70 for the ease of using dry yeast (at least 2 packs per 5 gallons) and not having to make large starters. This dry yeast wasn't available when I brewed my first beer (lager), but I find that it is virtually identical to it's liquid counterpart, WLP-830.

I don't why some brewers on here say the general rule of lager primary fermentations taking 3 to 4 weeks. Every lager I've brewed has completed primary and been transferred to lagering at the 2 week mark. Of course, all of my lager OGs hover around 1.050, so I could see higher gravities taking longer.

 

[freudhawk]

Chill the wort to near-fermentation temps before pitching yeast (like 55°F or less).

I am thinking about picking up a pre-chiller to accomplish this as I'm a little leary of waiting for it to go from 75F (about all I can get down to in the summer with my wort chiller) to 48F in an ice bath before I pitch.

What's your method to chill to lager temps priot to pitch?

 

[Edcculus]

I bought a submersible pump. I get it as cool as I can get it with tap water, then switch over to to recirculating ice water in a cooler with the submersible pump. You can pick them up for less than $20 at Harbor Freight. The best thing about that is, once I cool as far as it will go with tap water, I just put sanitized foil on the top to recirculate the ice water and clean up while the rest of the chilling is going on.

 

[freudhawk]

I bought a submersible pump. I get it as cool as I can get it with tap water, then switch over to to recirculating ice water in a cooler with the submersible pump. You can pick them up for less than $20 at Harbor Freight. The best thing about that is, once I cool as far as it will go with tap water, I just put sanitized foil on the top to recirculate the ice water and clean up while the rest of the chilling is going on.

That's sounds interesting, and cheaper than a pre-chiller. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the submersible pump can be attached directly to a garden hose (going into wort chiller). How long does it usually take to cool down to lagering temps with that setup? How many GPH should I be looking at?

 

[Mikethepoolguy]

I am drinking my first lager now. It spent the entire fermentation and lagering time of 4 weeks at 42F. After only 1 week in the bottle @ 71F it tastes great, crystal clear. Its an Austrailian lager that will push a Fosters off the shelf. Sorry, thats the only experience I have to share.

 

[freudhawk]

I am drinking my first lager now. It spent the entire fermentation and lagering time of 4 weeks at 42F. After only 1 week in the bottle @ 71F it tastes great, crystal clear. Its an Austrailian lager that will push a Fosters off the shelf. Sorry, thats the only experience I have to share.

Awesome to hear your first batch turned out so well-that gives me hope! No D-rest and relatively short lagering time and still turned out well...cool!

 

[Edcculus]

I cut a peice of garden hose and attached it to the end coming out of the pump with a hose clamp. On the other end, I attached a female fitting (I think...whatever is the right one so the IC will attach to it). Since the fittings on my IC are garden hose fittings, I remove it from my sink, screw it into the pump fitting, move the "out" hose on the IC over to the bucket of ice water (so it recirculates) and plug in the pump.

As far as GPM, I'm not too sure. I cheaped out and got the lowest price one they had. I wish I would have gotten a bigger one. If you had one of the bigger ones, and had the cooler/bucket filled with a lot of ice, I think you could get it down to lagering temps (from tap temp) pretty quickly.

 

[freudhawk]

I cut a peice of garden hose and attached it to the end coming out of the pump with a hose clamp. On the other end, I attached a female fitting (I think...whatever is the right one so the IC will attach to it). Since the fittings on my IC are garden hose fittings, I remove it from my sink, screw it into the pump fitting, move the "out" hose on the IC over to the bucket of ice water (so it recirculates) and plug in the pump.

As far as GPM, I'm not too sure. I cheaped out and got the lowest price one they had. I wish I would have gotten a bigger one. If you had one of the bigger ones, and had the cooler/bucket filled with a lot of ice, I think you could get it down to lagering temps (from tap temp) pretty quickly.

Great, thanks. It looks like Harbor Freight has several good options. I think I'll go for the 258 GPH pump and see how it works. I hope to get my entire cooling time to less than 30 minutes in the summer.

 

[Got Trub?]

I bought a submersible pump. I get it as cool as I can get it with tap water, then switch over to to recirculating ice water in a cooler with the submersible pump. You can pick them up for less than $20 at Harbor Freight. The best thing about that is, once I cool as far as it will go with tap water, I just put sanitized foil on the top to recirculate the ice water and clean up while the rest of the chilling is going on.

Ditto. Except I use an old aquarium pump. It also helps a little to brew seasonally - ie I tend to brew my lagers in the spring when my tap water is in the low 50's, in the summer it is closer to 60F.

GT

 

[Got Trub?]

Awesome to hear your first batch turned out so well-that gives me hope! No D-rest and relatively short lagering time and still turned out well...cool!

If you ferment in the colder range for lager yeast they don't produce much diacetyl so need for a D-rest. Its discussed ina thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/brewing-classic-styles-narziss-fermentation-lagering-49872/.

One tip I would have is to be patient. Like ales, lagers improve with age. As the temperatures are lower a lot of the processes take longer. I try to age my 1.045-1.050 OG lagers at least 3 months before drinking them. I'm not always successful

GT

 

[Ricand]

I've brewed more than half of Ken's beers and they are always awesome. He's my go to guy for sessionable recipes.

If your KL Home Run Red lager turns out anything like this one, you will be extremely happy. I should wait another month, but I just can't. hmm beer porn

 

[freudhawk]

I've brewed more than half of Ken's beers and they are always awesome. He's my go to guy for sessionable recipes.

If your KL Home Run Red lager turns out anything like this one, you will be extremely happy. I should wait another month, but I just can't. hmm beer porn

Wow! That looks awesome. If I can wait 3 months for that I'd be an oak! If possible, give me a brief synopsis of your tasting notes on that.

I can't wait to brew this Friday.

 

[freudhawk]

If you ferment in the colder range for lager yeast they don't produce much diacetyl so need for a D-rest. Its discussed ina thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/brewing-classic-styles-narziss-fermentation-lagering-49872/.

One tip I would have is to be patient. Like ales, lagers improve with age. As the temperatures are lower a lot of the processes take longer. I try to age my 1.045-1.050 OG lagers at least 3 months before drinking them. I'm not always successful

GT

Good info, thanks. I do remember hearing that about D-rest and lower fermenting temps.

 

[944play]

I think I'll go for the 258 GPH pump and see how it works. I hope to get my entire cooling time to less than 30 minutes in the summer.

That's the one I have. It took about 30 minutes to go from body temp to lager pitch temp yesterday (5.5 gallons, 3/8"x25' chiller), so add that to the time to go from flameout to no longer feeling warm.

Bonus, if you care, is that the submersible pump makes for a great temp-controlled water bath.

I can only wait a month... well, four weeks to get into a 1.050 lager.

 

[freudhawk]

That's the one I have. It took about 30 minutes to go from body temp to lager pitch temp yesterday (5.5 gallons, 3/8"x25' chiller), so add that to the time to go from flameout to no longer feeling warm.

Bonus, if you care, is that the submersible pump makes for a great temp-controlled water bath.

I can only wait a month... well, four weeks to get into a 1.050 lager.

Awesome, good to have some info on it. I have a 1/2" x 50ft chiller so hopefully it'll cool a bit faster.
I also have just started using a igloo ice cube fermentation chamber (old fridge died) filled with ice and may try the pump in a separate cooler to try and stabilze the temps.

 

[freudhawk]

That's the one I have. It took about 30 minutes to go from body temp to lager pitch temp yesterday (5.5 gallons, 3/8"x25' chiller), so add that to the time to go from flameout to no longer feeling warm.

Bonus, if you care, is that the submersible pump makes for a great temp-controlled water bath.

I can only wait a month... well, four weeks to get into a 1.050 lager.

Just got a 300 GPH fountain pump for......$4.49 from Tractor Supply. I also picked up a 468 GPH foutain pump for $6.49 (I'm sure I'll find some use for it). Together they normally cost $110!!!

 

[samc]

Accurate form of fermentation temperature control was missing in my first Lager and it tasted like crap.

 

[freudhawk]

Accurate form of fermentation temperature control was missing in my first Lager and it tasted like crap.

Did it get too hot or just jump around too much?

 

[samc]

Did it get too hot or just jump around too much?

It was in the garage @ wintertime. It drifted + or - 5 degrees that I was aware of.

 

[freudhawk]

It was in the garage @ wintertime. It drifted + or - 5 degrees that I was aware of.

So what do you think made it taste crappy? Diacetyl?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I wouldn;t have done the things I shouldn;t have done that I didn;t know I was doing.

 

[Ricand]

Wow! That looks awesome. If I can wait 3 months for that I'd be an oak! If possible, give me a brief synopsis of your tasting notes on that.
I can't wait to brew this Friday.

I've done this red as an ale, a true lager and this one using the California Common hybrid yeast. I like them all. The recipe is a nicely balanced malty base that you can nudge in different directions with yeast and hops. The pic didn't do it justice, in person it is very clear. In the right light, it is a beautiful auburn red that almost glows. It's a baby, so the lager esters are not as round and smooth tasting as they will be. The noble hops balance the malt perfectly and the head has umber tints with nice lacing. I'm sure the last glass of this 10 gallons is going to be amazing.

 

[944play]

I have a 1/2" x 50ft chiller so hopefully it'll cool a bit faster.

Should be quite a bit faster. The restriction of the small-diameter tubing really cuts into the flow rate of the centrifugal pump.

Should have mentioned, I swirl the chiller in the wort every minute or so. I don't think plain convection is enough (though I'd love to see some CFD models).

OBTW, Southern German/Munich Lager is by far my favorite strain. It's fast, clean, and flocculent. Save that cake, it's worth its weight in packaged yeast!

 

[freudhawk]

I've done this red as an ale, a true lager and this one using the California Common hybrid yeast. I like them all. The recipe is a nicely balanced malty base that you can nudge in different directions with yeast and hops. The pic didn't do it justice, in person it is very clear. In the right light, it is a beautiful auburn red that almost glows. It's a baby, so the lager esters are not as round and smooth tasting as they will be. The noble hops balance the malt perfectly and the head has umber tints with nice lacing. I'm sure the last glass of this 10 gallons is going to be amazing.

OMG, that just made me so thirsty for it. Brewing it three different ways really shows how good a recipe it must be. Do you get much of a raisin character from the Special B at all?

 

[freudhawk]

Should have mentioned, I swirl the chiller in the wort every minute or so. I don't think plain convection is enough (though I'd love to see some CFD models).

OBTW, Southern German/Munich Lager is by far my favorite strain. It's fast, clean, and flocculent. Save that cake, it's worth its weight in packaged yeast!

I really should be better at agitating my chiller but I'm usually busy doing something else.

I certainly do plan on harvesting the yeast and keeping it on hand. It seems that many people use this strain as thier house lager yeast, so I'm hoping to do the same. Reusing yeast is just so cost-effective I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.

Any luck using this yeast with a Bock?