If you had $ what would you buy next?

[RandallFlag]

So, it appears that I am at a crossroads. I am about 15 batches into this all-consuming hobby and I want to make sure my purchases move me in the direction of producing better beers, etc.

I have done extract, partial mash and all grain brews (1 gal only) and have enjoyed each approach. All of these have been brewed indoors. I own the following:

• 10 carboys of various sizes: 1 gal to 7 gal
• 1 "big" pot: 5 gal generic (no thermometer, etc.)
• Several smaller pots: 1 and 2 gal
• Standard bottling, capping and cleaning equipment
• Hydrometers, thermometers, etc.

What's next? Nothing is broken, but should I be looking at kegging equipment or a mash tun or a better pot or an immersion chiller, etc.? I go to my LHBS and just drool. I go to online sites and I start adding all kinds of stuff in my cart and it seems like I'm drunk and disorderly.

I know this is a highly speculative question but I just want to know what a decent roadmap might look like as I am sure some of you guys and gals have purchased stuff over the years that you wish you hadn't.

Thanks!

 

[Roadie]

Get a fermentation fridge. Then you can decide if you want to keg or get further into all grain equipment.

 

[Kevin79]

So, it appears that I am at a crossroads. I am about 15 batches into this all-consuming hobby and I want to make sure my purchases move me in the direction of producing better beers, etc.

I have done extract, partial mash and all grain brews (1 gal only) and have enjoyed each approach. All of these have been brewed indoors. I own the following:

• 10 carboys of various sizes: 1 gal to 7 gal
• 1 "big" pot: 5 gal
• Several smaller pots: 1 and 2 gal
• Standard bottling, capping and cleaning equipment
• Hydrometers, thermometers, etc.

What's next? Nothing is broken, but should I be looking at kegging equipment or a mash tun or a better pot or an immersion chiller, etc.? I go to my LHBS and just drool. I go to online sites and I start adding all kinds of stuff in my cart and it seems like I'm drunk and disorderly.

I know this is a highly speculative question but I just want to know what a decent roadmap might look like as I am sure some of you guys and gals have purchased stuff over the years that you wish you hadn't.

Thanks!

If you have the ability to do larger boils a bigger kettle will allow you to do full boil extract and larger batch all grain brews. Are you doing anything for temp control?

 

[RandallFlag]

Get a fermentation fridge. Then you can decide if you want to keg or get further into all grain equipment.

Interesting response. Why do you say that? I guess I'm asking what does this do that would allow you to make the decision to go further? Is it just an old fridge or something?

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I would say that if you are serious about sticking with the best hobby in the world, I would start off with an upgrade to your boil kettle and possibly invest in a propane burner. If you go with a nice 10 gallon kettle, you can do full boils which will improve your beers, and that 10 gallon kettle is perfect to incorporate into an all grain system down the road.

 

[Ski12568]

What's next? Nothing is broken, but should I be looking at kegging equipment or a mash tun or a better pot or an immersion chiller, etc.? I go to my LHBS and just drool.

I would start here and add a fermentation chamber to that list if you don't have one already.

 

[wilserbrewer]

What is your location? Depending on how your climate is, will depend on how favorable it would be to move outside. FWIW, I found brewing outside very inefficient, all the work involved in carting everthing outside than carting it back inside, then moving the finished wort to the basement...finally set up in the basement after too many sessions outside...

 

[RandallFlag]

If you have the ability to do larger boils a bigger kettle will allow you to do full boil extract and larger batch all grain brews. Are you doing anything for temp control?

I considered this as well...and I like the way you're thinking. However, my thought was: well, if I get a bigger/better brew kettle and I do full boils then that's more liquid to cool off. Do I need an immersion or counterflow chiller?

That's the second mention of controlling ferm temp. I've not seen that a lot on this site and I guess I don't pay that close attention to it since I am set up in my basement where the temp is very stable throughout the year.

 

[RandallFlag]

What is your location? Depending on how your climate is, will depend on how favorable it would be to move outside. FWIW, I found brewing outside very inefficient, all the work involved in carting everthing outside than carting it back inside, then moving the finished wort to the basement...finally set up in the basement after too many sessions outside...

I agree with you. I'm in KY. Right now we're under a foot of snow. In the summer it's hot as b4lls. My basement is always steady though.

 

[Psylocide]

I considered this as well...and I like the way you're thinking. However, my thought was: well, if I get a bigger/better brew kettle and I do full boils then that's more liquid to cool off. Do I need an immersion or counterflow chiller?

That's the second mention of controlling ferm temp. I've not seen that a lot on this site and I guess I don't pay that close attention to it since I am set up in my basement where the temp is very stable throughout the year.

Not really.

I do full volume boils and do no-chill brewing. Let it get down to a low enough temp for the glass carboy by sitting outside, then transfer, and wait until it's down to pitching temp.

I would highly suggest a 10 or even 15 gal kettle (with basket) and a propane burner. Full volume mash, no chill BIAB.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Interesting response. Why do you say that? I guess I'm asking what does this do that would allow you to make the decision to go further? Is it just an old fridge or something?

Not my post but my take: Being able to control your fermentation temperatures can be the difference between OK beer and great beer. If you get the fridge and end up finding out that it doesn't make a difference because you can toss a heating pad on your fermenters which reside in your 65*F basement to get your desired fermentative temperatures, you're not out much because you can drill some holes for taps and boom- kegerator.

 

[theck]

4 SS brew buckets... personally I'd love to get away from the plastic.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I got a picnic tap 'kit' from my lhbs for $120, which included:

5 gallon corny keg, all the fittings, hoses, and an empty CO2 tank. It was a great addition. Now if I want a beer for a party, I can generally carb a beer and have it ready within a day and a half or so of when you would normally bottle. It really is nice, not to mention it doesn't take half the time it would take to bottle 60+ beers.

My most recent purchase though that I have not been able to use due to the massive amount of snow, are these two...

Amazon: Bayou Classic Burner ~$55

Amazon: Bayou Classic 16 Gallon Pot ~$175

I opened an Amazon card since it was my first purchase from them, and I pay $25 a month, interest free. I can not wait to use these.

Other than that, personally... I need a wort chiller in a bad way, since we don't have snow year round. Good luck buddy!

 

[RandallFlag]

Not really.

I do full volume boils and do no-chill brewing. Let it get down to a low enough temp for the glass carboy by sitting outside, then transfer, and wait until it's down to pitching temp.

I would highly suggest a 10 or even 15 gal kettle (with basket) and a propane burner. Full volume mash, no chill BIAB.

Interesting. So you have no issues with not hitting a cold break?

 

[Hello]

I considered this as well...and I like the way you're thinking. However, my thought was: well, if I get a bigger/better brew kettle and I do full boils then that's more liquid to cool off. Do I need an immersion or counterflow chiller?

That's the second mention of controlling ferm temp. I've not seen that a lot on this site and I guess I don't pay that close attention to it since I am set up in my basement where the temp is very stable throughout the year.

You haven't seen much on this site about fermentation temp control? You're missing a ton then.

Before investing in a larger setup that allows for full boils, I would find a way to control your fermentation temps first. This is ultimately the final step in making great beer. You can continue to do 1 gallon batches or batches where you top off, but you can't really compensate for out of control fermentation temperatures.

You can use a variety of things. Starting with a swamp cooler, which requires daily attention at the minimal, to a small fridge with dual stage heating and cooling, unless you live in a climate that is pretty much always warm and therefore heating would be unnecessary, or you can invest in a chest freezer with temp control where you bypass the thermostat and control the temp of the freezer yourself. If you don't do 5 gallon batches then this may be overkill.

If you don't feel as though you have any issues with controlling fermentation temps, then a larger boil kettle would be helpful. Your stove may not be able to boil that much volume so a propane burner would be in order. Yes, cooling 5 gallons of wort will take more time with an ice bath and such. An immersion chiller would be very beneficial.

 

[edroberts]

I agree with the larger boil kettle. Fermentation chamber is also a great choice, but if you have a basement that sits in the low to mid 60s, you're probably in pretty good shape there.

Dialing in fermentation temps within yeast's optimum range makes a huge difference in beer quality. The only negative to basement ambient temps is that you simply wouldn't have any real easy ability to limit the heat created by the fermentation itself. For example, I have used S-04, which develops a tart taste above 64 F. My room was at 64, but fermentation rose temps to 73 as I didn't have the ability to cool the fermentation.

 

[paperairplane]

I would go in this order:

Full volume boil pot and burner - drives off DMS, aids hop utilization, solid hot break - all important.

Kegging equipment - this is a convenience - but so great and so worth it.

Immersion chiller - you can skip this for a while or even go no chill.

Ferm chamber - a cool basement or a swamp cooler can hold this off for a while. It's a great tool and ultimately a real key to consistent brewing, but if you're topping off an extract brew with water, it's not your limiting factor. (Maybe if you live somewhere super hot or something this is a bigger factor)

 

[Psylocide]

Interesting. So you have no issues with not hitting a cold break?

Not personally, my dad has always done it this way and I'll continue to until I have an extra $70 to throw at a gadget.

No off flavors, chill haze is taken care of by cold crash/fining.

 

[chickypad]

That's the second mention of controlling ferm temp. I've not seen that a lot on this site and I guess I don't pay that close attention to it since I am set up in my basement where the temp is very stable throughout the year.

I'm also surprised at this because in most of the threads from new brewers asking advice about off flavors and how to improve their beer usually the overwhelming response is fermentation temp control. If you are not already paying attention to it, it may be one of the single biggest things you can do to improve the quality of your beer. Also realize beer temp and ambient temp are not the same, the beer can be 8-10 degrees hotter than ambient during active fermentation. Maybe you're exceptionally lucky with perfect natural temps, but it's worth looking into. Also a single temp range is usually not ideal for all yeasts, so if you want to expand to different styles that could be an issue.

If you want to upgrade to bigger batches then sure getting a bigger pot to allow full boils, a chiller and a burner are all good ideas. There are plenty of folks though who prefer sticking to small batches and make great beer. You should be able to do at least 3 gals with your current pot. It all depends on what you want. If you do decide to go bigger the next thing I would look into is yeast pitching rates, starters for liquid yeast, etc. With all smaller batches it may not be something you've had to deal with before.

 

[RandallFlag]

I'm also surprised at this because in most of the threads from new brewers asking advice about off flavors and how to improve their beer usually the overwhelming response is fermentation temp control.

Never had off-flavors. My ambient always falls within the yeast lab's spec sheets so why complicate things? Thus I haven't paid much attention to temp control. If there is a beer out there that I want to make that requires adjusting the temp up for a D rest etc, I simply don't make it.

I get that it's important...just not in my experience thus far. If that makes sense. I could be missing out on making my beers "great" but when they have been bad (so far) it hasn't been because of temps. It's been because I created a bad tasting beer e.g. a Cherry Wheat that tasted like cough syrup thanks to the nasty cherry flavoring I added

 

[Clonefan94]

I haven't read through the posts because I want to give you my opinion on what popped into my head first, without trying to discount anyone else's ideas. If I were you, I'd look into a larger pot and a good floor burner to get into bigger batches. Nothing wrong with small batches, my neighbor brews exclusively 1 gallon. But if you are looking into later kegging and that stuff, I would think you'd want to start moving into 5 gallons.

I've been told by friends who brew 10 gallons at a time, that I'm crazy for only brewing 5 (actually 6, so I get a full finished 5 gallons into the keg). What they say is true, it takes no more time to brew 10 gallons than it does 5. I just haven't hit that point yet where investing in new equipment for 10 gallons makes sense.

On that note though, you'll probably find brewing 5 gallons is not much more time or work than doing 1. And at the end of the day, you have 5 gallons of beer to drink and not just 1.

As I said though, a lot of my opinion is based on you also asking about kegging. As with brewing, it's not going to take much more time to keg 5 than it would 1. All the cleaning of the kegs and the lines are what take me time, The transferring of the wort is pretty minor. So if you plan on kegging one day, personally I think the next logical step is to move up to 5 gallon batches.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I started using a swamp cooler for fermentation temp control since I simply do not have room in my small apartment for an extra fridge or freezer. Simply putting my carboy in a tote filled with water has kept the temp where I want it, and on the days with the most fluctuation it only changed +/- 1 degree. It's worth looking into.

 

[chickypad]

Never had off-flavors. My ambient always falls within the yeast lab's spec sheets so why complicate things? Thus I haven't paid much attention to temp control. If there is a beer out there that I want to make that requires adjusting the temp up for a D rest etc, I simply don't make it.

Yeah, that was kind of my point. You may be limiting yourself with certain styles, but if you don't care about that and you're happy currently then sure don't change. You asked what we think you should spend your money on, but it's all totally dependent on your priorities. Do you want to move to bigger batches? Get in to kegging? Expand to styles like lagers, Belgians, etc? Do you want to do some fine tuning of your procedures to make subtle improvements in quality, or are you totally happy with your results now and just want some fun toys to play with? All depends on what you're after. There are certainly lots of things to spend your money on with this hobby.

 

[Pilgarlic]

It's about the beer, not the gear. My standard reply to your to this recurring question is "what does your beer tell you needs improvement"? Start there. It may suggest an equipment fix, and it may not, but it will point you toward improving your beer rather than adding to your equipment collection.

 

[Roadie]

Interesting response. Why do you say that? I guess I'm asking what does this do that would allow you to make the decision to go further? Is it just an old fridge or something?

That was my post. You said your system isn't broken so IMHO the best thing to do is have complete temperature control. Your basement is in the mid 60's so when fermentation is going hot/heavy what temp is your beer at? As you get deeper into the hobby you will want to control temps as much as possible. For instance with WLP001 I usually start out with wort at 65 for 2 days then I raise the temp 1 degree a day until I get to 68 and let it ride - usually for a couple more days and then I hit FG. I've found this to be the best for that yeast in what I've brewed. Other yeasts have their own fermentation schedule. After FG is reached if not dry hopping I then lower the temp to 34 to cold crash/clear the beer for a couple days then package (I keg). You can lager in the fridge, cold crash, ferment, if you like dry hopping at 55 you can do that, basically you open up a lot of things to make your beer better when you can control temps.

To answer your other question, yes, an old fridge on a dual temp controller with a heat source as well.

 

[dcrog]

I'll chime in on the temperature control also.

I simply found a small chest freezer on craigslist for 15.00. STC1000 controller I mounted into an old first aid box, about 25.00 with parts. And a light fixture in a can for about 5.00.

So for around 50.00 you can do all the things Roadie just said. Plus if you were to get a keg set up you can stick one in there with a picnic tap pretty cheaply and have draft when your not fermenting.

I do all of this in the garage in KY so my temperature swings a lot more than a basement, but for the price it's likely your best investment.

 

[chezhed]

$666....scary cheap for all stainless...but you have to go to Monterrey, MX

 

[RandallFlag]

$666....scary cheap for all stainless...but you have to go to Monterrey, MX

All those bricks too, for just $666?!? Sign me up.

 

[1977Brewer]

I'd definitely build some sort of temp control. I was given a chest freezer by my wife's grandmother, but we use it for food.
I have a burner, 10 gal. kettle, and basket I can borrow for brew day from my father in law. He hasn't touched it in like 5 years, so I'm hoping this is a permanent arrangement.

 

[RandallFlag]

You learn something new every day (it seems) with this hobby. I've paid very little attention to temperature control thus far in my first 6 months. I just found a video where Palmer includes it as #2 in his top 5 tips for better beer.

Mission: find a chest freezer or fridge.

 

[dcrog]

http://lexington.craigslist.org/app/4892558959.html

There's a start, or a finish.

 

[Psylocide]

If I had money, I'll tell you what I'd do.

Go downtown and buy a Mercury or two.

Lord, I'm crazy bout a Mercury.

 

[RandallFlag]

Thanks @dcrog. I might have to text them and see if they can wait until snowmagedon is over.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I am in the ferm temp control camp. I think it is pretty important. That being said, I frequently just match my yeast/style to my basement temp. For instance, in the winters I use pacman ale yeast pretty exclusively, as it does really well at 60-62 degs.

I also don't chill, and have no problem with cold break. I use a conical, so I just dump boiling wort in there, along with a whirlfloc tablet. Next day I dump the cold break. Aside from my first no-chill attempt (forgot whirlfloc) I have no clarity problems.

Stir plates are super handy. You can make one for dirt cheap. Get a speed controlled cooling fan on amazon for 12 bucks, a pack of strong neodymium magnets for another few, and make a little box to put it all in. Good yeast pitching rates has as big an impact as temp. Having a stir plate means less time spent stepping up starters. If you want to do some stronger lagers, that is helpful, as they require a crap ton of yeast.

Some aeration capability is also great. I use pure 02, using a welding tank. All said and done that was about 150 for the tank, regulator, wand/stone, and the 02 refill. A stone with aeration pump also works reasonably well. Both i believe are an improvement over shaking the fermenter.

You could spend the $ to get a water report from ward labs, and the $ on the chemicals needed to treat your water. That is a part of the hobby I'm still looking into, but I'm starting to think its important.

If you are thinking of going AG soon, a mill is really nice. IMHO, the crush at most LHBS's sort of sucks. I have a lot of trouble with consistency, and I'm hoping my new mill will help. Crankandstein 2D comes this weekend I think, super excited.

I have enough capacity to do 10g or even lighter 15g batches, but mostly I just do 5g unless I have a brew buddy who will take home some wort. I like to brew, and mostly its just my wife and I drinking the beer. 5g once a month is enough unless there's something coming up I'm taking a lot of beer to.

 

[btbnl]

As others have pointed out, the answer obviously depends on your circumstances (especially ambient temperature and finances) and the direction you want to go in (wider variety, bigger volume, improved quality).

With a stable 65F basement and a raging thirst, the order of my improvements from the initial kit was:
- full boil (8G kettle, propane burner, immersion chiller): coupled with late addition this dramatically improved my extract batches.
- BIAB (bag): the easiest transition to all grain, and another big improvement in the beer.
- kegging (freezer & stc controller, kegs & fittings): bottling is a pain and a keezer in the basement is just so cool.
- 10G batches (keggle with ball-valve, thermomenter and sight-tube): should have seem this coming and not wasted money on the 8G kettle.
- crude fermentation temperature control (swamp cooler & fermenwrap): basic temperature control for the hottest days and coldest nights.
- multiple batches (3 more carboys, 2 more keggles, 1 more stove, brew-stand build of strut): now I can brew 3 batches and 20 gallons in a brew day that only takes an hour or so longer than a single batch.
- yeast starters (stir plate, erlenmeyer flask): saving money on yeast while ensuring a big enough pitch, can also make an excessive starter and harvest from that rather than post-fermentation.
- no-chill (4 x 6 gallon hpde carboys): in response to the drought, works very well except for the hoppiest beers.
- exact fermentation temperature control (2nd freezer, dual stage stc controller): because even a stable basement isn't at the right temperature all the time.
- oxygenation (oxygen tank & wand/diffusion stone): mostly because I had acquired a helium tank that I could swap for oxygen, though it is nice not to be shaking carboys (especially for BIG beers).
- serving on nitrogen (nitrogen tank & fittings, stout tap): ditto on the second helium tank and gift.

By the end, I'm getting into indulgences rather than necessities but once you get going it's hard to stop thinking about the next bit of kit!

 

[dcrog]

Don't wait too long I might have to drive up there and get it for a spare. LOL

It's bigger than mine and looks nicer too.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Priority list if you want to make better beer:
1) Fermentation temp control (fermentation chamber, dual stage temp controller, heating source, cooling source)
2) Proper water chemistry (Ward Labs report on your water, understanding of water chemistry, a good pH meter, RO or distilled water, mineral/acid additions to water)
3) Proper amount of yeast (stir plate, stir bar, flasks)
4) Good recipes (recipe database here on HBT)
5) Control over carbonation (kegging system)
6) Quality ingredients (ingredients stored properly)

Other stuff, like a bigger BK or brew pumps or a fully automated electric brewery will make brewing easier and more enjoyable, but it won't make better beer.

 

[Psylocide]

Priority list if you want to make better beer:
1) Fermentation temp control (fermentation chamber, dual stage temp controller, heating source, cooling source)
2) Proper water chemistry (Ward Labs report on your water, understanding of water chemistry, a good pH meter, RO or distilled water, mineral/acid additions to water)
3) Proper amount of yeast (stir plate, stir bar, flasks)
4) Good recipes (recipe database here on HBT)
5) Control over carbonation (kegging system)
6) Quality ingredients (ingredients stored properly)

Other stuff, like a bigger BK or brew pumps or a fully automated electric brewery will make brewing easier and more enjoyable, but it won't make better beer.

A bigger BK will make a lot more better beer. I wouldn't limit myself to a 5 gal kettle, which is the reason most people are suggesting that.

I get what you're saying, but it would be silly to hamstring yourself for future batches by going with a 5 gal kettle.

Just IMHO of course, but a larger (2x at least) BK would still be at the top of my list.

 

[LandoLincoln]

It a matter of priorities. Which is more important at this point - better beer or more beer?

 

[Subdivisions]

I'd say the 5 gallon kettle is your big bottleneck at this point. You'll only be able to do small batches or partial boil extracts with it.

Go on wayfair.com and get a 44 quart Stainless pot for $85. You can then go into BIAB if you want and you can use your 5 gallon pot to heat sparge water.

I agree with the others about fermentation temperature. I have a cold basement like you and have to actually heat my fermenters in the winter. Other times of the year I just use a swamp cooler and keep it in the mid 60s (beer temp) pretty easily.