Ice Cider

[felix]

Winter's coming... Anybody have experienced with ice/late harvest cider?

Winemaking with grapes tells us that late harvested fruit bears much less juice per fruit, insane levels of sugars and sometimes very interesting wild yeasts - with late harvested grapes ("Bothrytis Afffected").

What's the deal with apples? I'll google it but any input from you guys is great

 

[jpowers1]

I've heard applejack gives you a nasty hangover, with removing ice, you leave behind ethanol, and also all other nasty esters or whatever. I don't know about late harvests, but i think freeze distilling isn't legal anyway.

 

[Freezeblade]

I've heard applejack gives you a nasty hangover, with removing ice, you leave behind ethanol, and also all other nasty esters or whatever. I don't know about late harvests, but i think freeze distilling isn't legal anyway.

I think the OP is talking about removing water (via ice) BEFORE fermentation, which is perfectly legal and is used in ice-wine, or "noble rot" as it is present in some white wines (also known as over-ripe stage). I read somewhere that that the "ice wine" process of the freezeing apples still on the tree is done sometimes at some orchards in canada, but that could have been hearsay.

Freeze distilling is illegal, in the same way as vapor distillation is illegal, but concentrating juice/wort prior to fermentation is perfectly legal (boiling wort is concentrating it, etc.) Just thought I'd clear up the legal thing, but other than that, I don't have much to add.

 

[Oakwoodforge]

I don't believe Felix is talking about Freeze distilling , But rather "Icewein" from Apfels , and I quote:
"Winemaking with grapes tells us that late harvested fruit bears much less juice per fruit, insane levels of sugars and sometimes very interesting wild yeasts - with late harvested grapes ("Bothrytis Afffected").
What's the deal with apples? I'll google it but any input from you guys is great "

To Answer your question Felix , the BEST ( crisp & Perfect ) apples make the best cider , Bruised, brown or turned apples are better for feeding deer or making vinegar IMHO.
* However the Worst pears make the best Perry , the mushier & browner the better & sweeter the juice.

Just my $0.02

Skal!

Jens

 

[Zymurgrafi]

This summer I tasted some cider made this way at the local farmers market made here in Vermont. It was fantastic! A very sweet desert type wine. I too thought the ice part was freeze distillation so I asked the woman selling it about the process.

She explained that it was not freeze distillation they were doing. They had an orchard blend freshly harvested apples and press the cider from them. Then they set the sweet cider out in the winter to freeze and removed the frozen water, thus (as above posters have described) made their own concentrate. That is what is then fermented.

This "wine" was really quite good. I believe it was about 10% abv or so but really smooth and the alcohol was undetectable. I was surprised at how sweet it was too. I questioned her but I can not remember what they did to keep it sweet. I know it was not filtration or campden tabs to stop fermentation

Anyway, really enjoyable stuff. I did not get any though as it was also $25 a bottle! Worth it I would say, but out of my price range.

 

[felix]

Holy Gods... while googling the subject of ice cider, the first page i fall on is a page from Quebec Artisant Cidermakers (the french canadian province of Quebec is my homeland....) they claim that its Quebec cider makers that INVENTED ice cider. I mean real ice cider, from apples picked during winter time (we've got real winters!) and that freezing apple juice artificially is forbidden if you whant to write "Ice Cider" on your bottles. A bit like the laws they have for beer in Belgium or wine in France....

One particular ice cider from near Montreal won multiples awards around the globe: Domaine Pinnacle Sparcling Ice Cider.

i've yet to find detailed method of making it....i'll keep you guys posted..

 

[giligson]

Yes - that is just low temp concentrating the juice to start - push up the OG

Applejack is actually frozen cider with the crystalized ice removed thereby pushiing up the Ethanol content - it tastes kind of rank

Ice wine is made from grapes that have been grown to full ripeness and left on the vine so that freezing temps cause a sublimation of the H2O inside and thus concentrate the juice - push up the OG (its very yummy and a big risk to the grower because if conditions are not right you could lose the whole harvest)

Botryoid wine is more of a European thing and the concentration of the grapes occurs as a result of a specific mold that grows on the grape skin and steals water thereby pushing up the OG and leaving a funny moldy flavour that is also yummy but an acquired taste for some.

Apples do not behave like grapes
While you can get apples with hight initial sugars - this is usually done by variety. Apples past a certain ripeness will fall from the tree and/or eventually be attacked by (non yummy) mold or insects. Apples do not give up free H2O when they freeze like grapes do.

 

[felix]

i think its very sweet because of residual sugars. They dont let it ferment all the way to dryness. I dont think they could anyways, if its like icewine there is way too much sugars...

 

[felix]

gees by the time i'm finished writing a reply, there is already some else's words posted

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Winter's coming... Anybody have experienced with ice/late harvest cider?

Winemaking with grapes tells us that late harvested fruit bears much less juice per fruit, insane levels of sugars and sometimes very interesting wild yeasts - with late harvested grapes ("Bothrytis Afffected").

What's the deal with apples? I'll google it but any input from you guys is great

Interesting idea. I'm not sure it would work though, as apples tend to fall off the tree rather than stay on & freeze. I think the closest thing would be frozen apple juice concentrate (FAJC). Several people on this site (myself included) have added FAJC (and other concentrates) to apfelwein/cider & various recipes with varied results. I don't think nobel rot infects apples, if it does, I've never heard of it... Sounds like a nice little biology experiment though. If you try the FAJC "ice cider" or the nobel rot experiment, let us know how it (they) turn out, I'm quite curious now. Regards, GF.
EDIT: Guess I should read the entire thread before posting eh?