I tried Pliny the Younger

[Weezy]

These beers serve as a marketing tool as well as a creativity outlet for the brewers and that's it. We wouldn't be talking about this beer if it was available all year.

I think Vinnie invented the double IPA as a way to clear out the hop bin, to make room for the new hop shipment :cross:
J/k

 

[revelation]

Yes, $4.75 is crazy cheap for what this beer is. In fact, all their beers are extremely reasonably priced. It just goes to show you that craft breweries are charging prices based not on what it costs to bring the beer to market, but what the market is willing to pay. They could easily charge triple or more what they do now and it wouldn't hurt the demand much, if any, at all.

I don't get your statement at all. Brewers that I know (I work for one) charge a small margin over their costs.

The reason RR can charge $4.75 is that when you buy a beer from the maker, you are outside the three tier system and therefore the brewer makes all the money. When you are selling through the three tier system, everyone takes their cut and by that I mean each tier adds 33% to the price. So if the brewery sells at $3, the distributor charges the retailer $4, and the retailer charges $5.50 to the consumer. When you are talking 22oz beers, it could cost the brewer $3 for the beer, they charge $4 to the distributor, who charges $5.50 to the retailer, who then charges the consumer $7.50. If the brewer can cut out the other two tiers, they make all that profit.

 

[mattd2]

I don't get your statement at all. Brewers that I know (I work for one) charge a small margin over their costs.

The reason RR can charge $4.75 is that when you buy a beer from the maker, you are outside the three tier system and therefore the brewer makes all the money. When you are selling through the three tier system, everyone takes their cut and by that I mean each tier adds 33% to the price. So if the brewery sells at $3, the distributor charges the retailer $4, and the retailer charges $5.50 to the consumer. When you are talking 22oz beers, it could cost the brewer $3 for the beer, they charge $4 to the distributor, who charges $5.50 to the retailer, who then charges the consumer $7.50. If the brewer can cut out the other two tiers, they make all that profit.

I think he might be comparing to other brewpubs that still charge like a wounded bull for limited releases even though there are no middle men

 

[LovesIPA]

I think he might be comparing to other brewpubs that still charge like a wounded bull for limited releases even though there are no middle men

Ding ding ding

 

[LovesIPA]

I don't get this line of thinking. Them getting into debt so that they could produce more of a beer that makes them very little money is not a smart business practice.

Borrowing money is how businesses grow. Fact of life.

These beers serve as a marketing tool as well as a creativity outlet for the brewers and that's it. We wouldn't be talking about this beer if it was available all year.

I don't know - Heady Topper is available year-round and is rated almost as high as Pliny the Younger.

 

[ktblunden]

Borrowing money is how businesses grow. Fact of life.



I don't know - Heady Topper is available year-round and is rated almost as high as Pliny the Younger.

HT is also (up until just recently) the only beer The Alchemist produces. RR can stop brewing PtY altogether and continue to sell Blind Pig, PtE, and their sours and be just as profitable. You're also comparing an 8% beer to a 10+% beer with a lot more hops.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Home Brew mobile app

 

[brettg20]

You can't really fault RR because PTY is such a success. There are many other yearly releases that don't get the hype, but if they did you can't say the brewery would start brewing them non-stop. PTY is a yearly released beer that is good but is extremely trendy...buy you can't fault RR. I have had the younger at a local spot last year, it was a damn good beer but I would never wait 10+ hours in the rain for a 10oz pour.

 

[paperairplane]

Maybe they prefer to stay small, control quality and be happy with their success. If they wanted everyone to have a pty, and just make money, I'm sure bmc would be happy to buy them out any day for a princely sum.

 

[fizgig]

After 5 hours in line in the California sun, a high life would taste amazing, no wonder there's hype...

 

[LovesIPA]

After 5 hours in line in the California sun, a high life would taste amazing, no wonder there's hype...

I said that exact same thing while standing in line. More than once.

Not that the weather is like it would be in July though. That would be brutal.

 

[Phunhog]

After 5 hours in line in the California sun, a high life would taste amazing, no wonder there's hype...

What?? You guys didn't at least have a party while you were waiting in line? That's what camelbacks are for!!

 

[elpenoso]

I had it a few years ago...just walked right into the place, sat down, got lunch and a younger. It looks like that doesn't happen anymore.
Since I grew up there, I visit my parents and RR often. Honestly I like PTE much better. The PTY alcohol presence mutes the hops quite a bit. It does have a nice hoppy smoothness, but its way over hyped.
I'll take one of my Dipa's in my backyard any day over a 5 hour wait on the sidewalk for this stuff.

 

[Disintegr8or]

seems ridiculous.

I agree. Maybe if they would distribute out this way us East Coasters could see what all the fuss is about.

In the meantime, I'll enjoy my own brew that is the best IPA I've ever had, and I don't have to wait in line for it.

 

[WissahickonBrew]

Philly is one of the chosen to receive the much discussed PTY. I checked around to see if any pubs within my circle of reach was pouring the brew. Two places indicated they kicked their kegs within 25 minutes of tapping. Some places reported PTY fans started a line 4 hours before the bars opened in order to ensure a glass. Last Wednesday a bar within walking distance of my office was tapping a keg at 3:30pm. I made my way over at about 3:50 and there was no line. The bar was full, but not packed. I easily found an empty stool and the barmaid asked my preference. I said I'd like a Pliny if it's still available. She returned with an 8 ounce pour and asked for $10! I expected a ridiculous price but even that caught me off guard. Another patron asked for one right after me but the keg was kicked, the lady behind the bar said I grabbed the last one!

It was ok, but no where near became my favorite IPA. I LOVE IPA's! To me it tasted caramel-ish, sweeter than I expected. Hops were prominent of course, but not in a crisp, clean way. Without the hoopla, and if I tried it out of curiosity among other beers, I would have tasted it and moved on. Russian River has a better marketing strategy than beer making skills. Pliny the Elder however, is VERY good and I would order it before PTY any day!

 

[Weezy]

Russian River has a better marketing strategy than beer making skills. Pliny the Elder however, is VERY good and I would order it before PTY any day!

Funny but when I try a new beer and really enjoy it, maybe i'll research it a little to see if there are clone recipes out there. Half of the search is just to help train the palate to learn different malt and hop flavors. Anyway, I'll invariably end up hitting beeradvocate or ratebeer and see a 2/5 or something... and I wonder, if it had a RR label, what would it rate?

 

[Callacave]

I'm starting to believe this is a very good beer with a amazingly stupid amount of hype.

It's enough already. My buddy flew from here on the east coast all the way out there for a b-day west coast brewery tour. I think he waited 2 hours in line. That's about as long as I would wait, and even that's stretching it. He said it was amazing, but I think he was under the hype spell.

He even brought back some PTE, and while it's a well crafted and smooth DIPA, I've had as good or better for my tastes.

Hate to sound biased, but give me some Hill Farmstead any and everyday over anything else I've tried. That place is worth every bit of hype. I waited 2 hours last time I was up there, but at least I was able to get tasters of whatever I wanted while waiting, and I walked away with growlers of different beers. It's just a popular place no matter what they have on tap, not just for 2 weeks of the year.

Vermont is the best kept secret for great beer. There, I've said it. Now everyone knows where to get the best beer in the world right now. Just don't tell anyone I said it!!

 

[jbaysurfer]

I'm starting to believe this is a very good beer with a amazingly stupid amount of hype.

It's enough already. My buddy flew from here on the east coast all the way out there for a b-day west coast brewery tour. I think he waited 2 hours in line. That's about as long as I would wait, and even that's stretching it. He said it was amazing, but I think he was under the hype spell.

He even brought back some PTE, and while it's a well crafted and smooth DIPA, I've had as good or better for my tastes.

Hate to sound biased, but give me some Hill Farmstead any and everyday over anything else I've tried. That place is worth every bit of hype. I waited 2 hours last time I was up there, but at least I was able to get tasters of whatever I wanted while waiting, and I walked away with growlers of different beers. It's just a popular place no matter what they have on tap, not just for 2 weeks of the year.

Vermont is the best kept secret for great beer. There, I've said it. Now everyone knows where to get the best beer in the world right now. Just don't tell anyone I said it!!

No offense, but you live in New Hampshire...so don't assume that the RR pub is not a popular place the other 50 weeks of the year, because that'd be flat wrong. It also is a place you can get fantastic beers of many different styles in tasters, full pours, and growlers. Sure, some sour beers are off limits for growlers, but I think that's understandable.

I also don't know the pub you referred too, but I'm sure it's great as well.

You contributed post #46 to exactly the kind of threads that "hype" this and other beers.

The point for those of you who are bothered by the hype is to stop hyping. Whether it's facebook, instagram, HBT, Twitter, text messaging, email, or bragging...hype begins and ends with consumers the vast majority of the time.

RR did little else other then announce the release, which any retailer is entitled to do. The news vans were there because of the folks like those I met that flew in from Chicago, willing to fly across the country, wait in line for hours on end in a deluge, just to get a taste. I see just as much hype for dark lord every year, but I don't hate on 3Floyds for the fact I'll probably never get to taste that beer...I just seek out the goods (like you with HF) where I have access to them.

The hype has nothing to do with the beer really, and everything to do with people who would start threads on HBT and nurse them along strategically while villifying a brewer for not going into debt so they can have easier access to that brewers beers.

I'm a little tired of reading the RR bashing, since so much of it seems to be driven by little more then sour grapes.

 

[Fordmi]

I have skipped RR because of the line on ordinary Saturdays. I can't imagine the line for younger.

I have gotten my hands on younger a few times over the years. Great beer but not worth that much of my time. There are a few places by my house that get it and work out a system for selling it. It's still a process but much more manageable.

 

[The542]

Philly is one of the chosen to receive the much discussed PTY. I checked around to see if any pubs within my circle of reach was pouring the brew. Two places indicated they kicked their kegs within 25 minutes of tapping. Some places reported PTY fans started a line 4 hours before the bars opened in order to ensure a glass. Last Wednesday a bar within walking distance of my office was tapping a keg at 3:30pm. I made my way over at about 3:50 and there was no line. The bar was full, but not packed. I easily found an empty stool and the barmaid asked my preference. I said I'd like a Pliny if it's still available. She returned with an 8 ounce pour and asked for $10! I expected a ridiculous price but even that caught me off guard. Another patron asked for one right after me but the keg was kicked, the lady behind the bar said I grabbed the last one!

It was ok, but no where near became my favorite IPA. I LOVE IPA's! To me it tasted caramel-ish, sweeter than I expected. Hops were prominent of course, but not in a crisp, clean way. Without the hoopla, and if I tried it out of curiosity among other beers, I would have tasted it and moved on. Russian River has a better marketing strategy than beer making skills. Pliny the Elder however, is VERY good and I would order it before PTY any day!

Also in the Philly area and waited in a 20 minute line for a four oz pour at 11am. I had it side by side with Elder and thought Younger was far maltier than Elder. I'd take Elder every time going forward. Elder is much easier to find on tap around here too.

 

[mtnagel]

No offense, but you live in New Hampshire...so don't assume that the RR pub is not a popular place the other 50 weeks of the year, because that'd be flat wrong. It also is a place you can get fantastic beers of many different styles in tasters, full pours, and growlers. Sure, some sour beers are off limits for growlers, but I think that's understandable.

I also don't know the pub you referred too, but I'm sure it's great as well.

You contributed post #46 to exactly the kind of threads that "hype" this and other beers.

The point for those of you who are bothered by the hype is to stop hyping. Whether it's facebook, instagram, HBT, Twitter, text messaging, email, or bragging...hype begins and ends with consumers the vast majority of the time.

RR did little else other then announce the release, which any retailer is entitled to do. The news vans were there because of the folks like those I met that flew in from Chicago, willing to fly across the country, wait in line for hours on end in a deluge, just to get a taste. I see just as much hype for dark lord every year, but I don't hate on 3Floyds for the fact I'll probably never get to taste that beer...I just seek out the goods (like you with HF) where I have access to them.

The hype has nothing to do with the beer really, and everything to do with people who would start threads on HBT and nurse them along strategically while villifying a brewer for not going into debt so they can have easier access to that brewers beers.

I'm a little tired of reading the RR bashing, since so much of it seems to be driven by little more then sour grapes.

I get what you are saying, but you don't think the breweries share any blame? Maybe not in the very beginning, but after a beer gets hyped, they encourage it by having these once a year releases like Dark Lord Day, Hunahpu Day and Pliney the Younger with big festivals around it.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I get what you are saying, but you don't think the breweries share any blame? Maybe not in the very beginning, but after a beer gets hyped, they encourage it by having these once a year releases like Dark Lord Day, Hunahpu Day and Pliney the Younger with big festivals around it.

What's the alternative? NOT making the beer, or making it more? The first solves nothing...the second just takes away capacity that RR already doesn't have.

The complaints on this thread show that people are already frustrated they can't get Pliny or Pig, so how's a beer that requires smaller batches (because of the grainbill and MT size) and more time in the fermenter (because of the extra dry-hopping), and massive amounts of grain and hard to get hops (commercial brewers are having a hell of a time getting simcoe) going to fix the complaints aired here?

I'm not going to get into it because the mere suggestion pisses me off to no end, but I will simply say this: It is the epitome of "sense of entitlement" for a consumer to bad mouth a brewer for NOT TAKING ON DEBT so that consumer can have easier access to a product.

It's important to note 3 things here: 1) The retailer didn't put on a special festival. They merely announced the release-even though they absolutely have the right to pump the beer all they like...in this case they don't. 2) While the beer is very fairly priced in the pub, the release and the tourism is thought to bring a tremendous amount of money into the local economy 3)Sour grapes that we can't get a beer wreaks of "first world problems".

It just comes off as sour grapes to me. I am very familiar with Vinnie and Natalie, and they absolutely are all about making great beer. Maybe people wish they would make more so it was more readily available, but they already make 15k+ bbls a year, and they're not slaves...they are free market entrepreneurs.

I'm not completely blind either...I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.

In the end, we consumers are not entitled to demand a brewer take on financial risk for our edification. If the brewer is happy with his business as is, he has no obligation beyond making sure the product he offers for sale is as advertised: A quality craft beer.

JMHO...

 

[Callacave]

No offense, but you live in New Hampshire...so don't assume that the RR pub is not a popular place the other 50 weeks of the year, because that'd be flat wrong. It also is a place you can get fantastic beers of many different styles in tasters, full pours, and growlers. Sure, some sour beers are off limits for growlers, but I think that's understandable.

I also don't know the pub you referred too, but I'm sure it's great as well.

You contributed post #46 to exactly the kind of threads that "hype" this and other beers.

The point for those of you who are bothered by the hype is to stop hyping. Whether it's facebook, instagram, HBT, Twitter, text messaging, email, or bragging...hype begins and ends with consumers the vast majority of the time.

RR did little else other then announce the release, which any retailer is entitled to do. The news vans were there because of the folks like those I met that flew in from Chicago, willing to fly across the country, wait in line for hours on end in a deluge, just to get a taste. I see just as much hype for dark lord every year, but I don't hate on 3Floyds for the fact I'll probably never get to taste that beer...I just seek out the goods (like you with HF) where I have access to them.

The hype has nothing to do with the beer really, and everything to do with people who would start threads on HBT and nurse them along strategically while villifying a brewer for not going into debt so they can have easier access to that brewers beers.

I'm a little tired of reading the RR bashing, since so much of it seems to be driven by little more then sour grapes.

Not hating on RR. Had a couple of other things from them, and enjoyed them very much. In my opinion Hill Farmstead is still tops for me at the moment.

I'm sure RR is busy all year long, and they are extremely popular for good reason. They know all about hype, and how two weeks of a beer release can have people talking about their place for a long time. I bet you some other beers they make are even better than PTY, but it's PTY that keeps their name going around. Smart on them.

I'm actually glad you've never heard of HF. Voted best brewery in the world last year. There's already enough people going there for his amazing brews. Even the location is beautiful. I'm lucky I live in NH. I believe some of the best beers in the world are being produced in VT right now.

 

[mtnagel]

What's the alternative? NOT making the beer, or making it more? The first solves nothing...the second just takes away capacity that RR already doesn't have.

The complaints on this thread show that people are already frustrated they can't get Pliny or Pig, so how's a beer that requires smaller batches (because of the grainbill and MT size) and more time in the fermenter (because of the extra dry-hopping), and massive amounts of grain and hard to get hops (commercial brewers are having a hell of a time getting simcoe) going to fix the complaints aired here?

I'm not going to get into it because the mere suggestion pisses me off to no end, but I will simply say this: It is the epitome of "sense of entitlement" for a consumer to bad mouth a brewer for NOT TAKING ON DEBT so that consumer can have easier access to a product.

It's important to note 3 things here: 1) The retailer didn't put on a special festival. They merely announced the release-even though they absolutely have the right to pump the beer all they like...in this case they don't. 2) While the beer is very fairly priced in the pub, the release and the tourism is thought to bring a tremendous amount of money into the local economy 3)Sour grapes that we can't get a beer wreaks of "first world problems".

It just comes off as sour grapes to me. I am very familiar with Vinnie and Natalie, and they absolutely are all about making great beer. Maybe people wish they would make more so it was more readily available, but they already make 15k+ bbls a year, and they're not slaves...they are free market entrepreneurs.

I'm not completely blind either...I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.

In the end, we consumers are not entitled to demand a brewer take on financial risk for our edification. If the brewer is happy with his business as is, he has no obligation beyond making sure the product he offers for sale is as advertised: A quality craft beer.

JMHO...

You seem very passionate about this. You won't see me complaining that RR (or anyone) should make more beer. Of course I'd like to try more of their beer, but they made a calculated, financial decision to release it the way they did. You were saying it was all our fault for over hyping the beer and I don't think that's the entire story.

Cigar City realized that instead of making another batch of beer (and probably taking on more debt as you mention), they could sell $50 tickets for the opportunity to purchase their beer and make $175k extra that way. Not counting the other beer and food sales for the day. Of course their decision backfired, but most don't.

 

[Callacave]

With all due respect to RR I think the only thing that bothers me is the fact that people wait 4, 6, 11 or however many hours for this. I'm sure a ton of people didn't have to wait that long, and a lot of it is on the people showing up so early and wanting to wait for that amount of time, but I think part of the ridiculousness also belongs to RR, and I'm sure they're trying their hardest to serve everybody.

If I owned a brewery, I would be pissed if someone had to wait 5 hours to have a glass of my beer. There's got to be a better way to get everyone a glass in a reasonable amount of time. It's only beer.

 

[Weezy]

What's the alternative? NOT making the beer, or making it more? The first solves nothing...the second just takes away capacity that RR already doesn't have.

The complaints on this thread show that people are already frustrated they can't get Pliny or Pig, so how's a beer that requires smaller batches (because of the grainbill and MT size) and more time in the fermenter (because of the extra dry-hopping), and massive amounts of grain and hard to get hops (commercial brewers are having a hell of a time getting simcoe) going to fix the complaints aired here?

I'm not going to get into it because the mere suggestion pisses me off to no end, but I will simply say this: It is the epitome of "sense of entitlement" for a consumer to bad mouth a brewer for NOT TAKING ON DEBT so that consumer can have easier access to a product.

It's important to note 3 things here: 1) The retailer didn't put on a special festival. They merely announced the release-even though they absolutely have the right to pump the beer all they like...in this case they don't. 2) While the beer is very fairly priced in the pub, the release and the tourism is thought to bring a tremendous amount of money into the local economy 3)Sour grapes that we can't get a beer wreaks of "first world problems".

It just comes off as sour grapes to me. I am very familiar with Vinnie and Natalie, and they absolutely are all about making great beer. Maybe people wish they would make more so it was more readily available, but they already make 15k+ bbls a year, and they're not slaves...they are free market entrepreneurs.

I'm not completely blind either...I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.

In the end, we consumers are not entitled to demand a brewer take on financial risk for our edification. If the brewer is happy with his business as is, he has no obligation beyond making sure the product he offers for sale is as advertised: A quality craft beer.

JMHO...

A little hypocritical there. You talk of the sense of entitlement of others in one breath, then in the next breath you're complaining about the brewery distributing too widely and depriving you, the local market, of more product. It's ok for you to comment on their business practices but outsiders can't?

I doubt it was vacationers from Chicago who started this hype train.

If I owned a brewery, I would be pissed if someone had to wait 5 hours to have a glass of my beer. There's got to be a better way to get everyone a glass in a reasonable amount of time. It's only beer.

I'd tweet/Facebook to the fans saying no lines will be allowed, and ask the local police to disperse any lines past the frontage of the shop. Hey, all those people can patronize the local merchants while they wait.

 

[opiate82]

I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.

They also have realized this and have cut distribution back. The entire state of WA has been cut from RR distribution despite what is obviously a huge craft-beer market here.

 

[brettg20]

I don't understand why RR is getting hate when other breweries are trying to create a hype for a particular beer (Enjoy by, hunahpu). What do you want RR to do? They've been doing the same release for 10 years it's not their fault unlike others who are trying to create this hype. Get over it seriously


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[iijakii]

The only thing that bothers me about hype is that it skews my own personal expectations. Any movie that I hear is the best thing ever, 9/10 times it's a big disappointment because it never lived up to expectations. If I watch it again later on I'll realize it's pretty OK. I'm just a sucker product of consumerism and capitalism though. Make it expensive and give it a false rarity and I'll probably try it. Cost means it's better, right?

 

[Remmy]

I wouldn't wait for an hour for any beer. 5+ hours if just insane.

 

[jbaysurfer]

You seem very passionate about this. You won't see me complaining that RR (or anyone) should make more beer. Of course I'd like to try more of their beer, but they made a calculated, financial decision to release it the way they did. You were saying it was all our fault for over hyping the beer and I don't think that's the entire story.

Cigar City realized that instead of making another batch of beer (and probably taking on more debt as you mention), they could sell $50 tickets for the opportunity to purchase their beer and make $175k extra that way. Not counting the other beer and food sales for the day. Of course their decision backfired, but most don't.

Just trying to give a thoughtful answer, since I kinda like your posts and felt like you deserved it. But it's true I AM passionate about good beer.

To the guy who thinks I'm a hypocrite, that's a pretty strong word. I'm sorry you think that. I was clearly showing I could see things from others' perspective with that example. I was trying to be open minded and admit that legitimate criticism is...legitimate.

To Callacave, I didn't intend the "hate on RR" comment for you specifically. I apologize that this wasn't clear. This thread has 60 posts now, and I don't care much to reread and make specific personal accusations...so I said it in a general sense...then ended my post with JMHO.

I'm not making any personal judgements...I just love great beer and think some of the criticism toward RR is unfair. Most of it's coming from people who've tried what? One, maybe two beers?