I think I'm turning into a sanitation nazi

[RangerG]

Couple weeks ago I thought I'd get fancy and try using secondary fermentation for the first time; I also needed to do that for a mead. At the time, I being a returning brewer after 12 years that knows what I'm doing; you know, a FNG, I must have drifted off at the part where bleach needed to stay in contact with surfaces for at least 20 minutes to sanitize - and three batches of otherwise well tended brews ended up looking like pond scum. The mead was a lovely blood-red raspberry that started going south within hours which was heartbreaking - it looked like a giant petrie dish covered in greenish colonies.

These sort of experiences must be where sanitation nazi's come from. Just use the P formula; P=Plenty.

I no longer attempt to use a secondary unless absolutely necessary, and for two batches of mead that are currently in primary I plan to use bleach at triple the strength, boiling water, and then pour in some grain alcohol and swish it around in the carboy just to make sure - maybe I should lite the alcohol? That'll kill those little beasties! (That lighting the alcohol part is just a joke, a fuel-air explosion like that in a warm carboy would NOT be a good idea). I even sprung for one of those hand-held CO2 dispensers so that I could purge the O2 out of the secondary.

To me using the grain alcohol is a small price to pay not to ruin something that I consider to be like children. I also saw a guy on YouTube using booze in a spray bottle and now I got one a those around too just in case. Just the cheap ABC grain alcohol vodka at about 153 proof; it's like $22 for the big bottle.

Anyone else out there ever sanatize like that, or do you guys just chuck the stuff together and fugetaboutit?

Do those "other" sanitizers really work as well as they say they do?

Any handy-dandy pearls of sanitation wisdom, or secondary fermentation advice for the old FNG so that I can tell my wife that "Everything will be be well in the garden?"

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Why not give a "known" sanitizer a try at the correct concentration? Like iodophor or star san? I use iodophor in a spray bottle and it's awesome...really makes sanitizing easy

Also, I'm not sure that vodka will sanitize. I use it in my airlocks so nothing grows in there and if there is any suck back it's not a big deal...but i'm not sure if it'll sanitize

Welcome back to brewing!!

 

[RangerG]

Thanks, I was thinking about using iodophor but didn't really know what it was or if I should trust it.

 

[DUCCCC]

At the very least, if you don't really trust any of the newer no-rinse products, you'll trust good ol' bleach.
Poindexter had an excellent thread about the power of the stuff here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=422203&postcount=1

Save the PGA for punch !

Personally, I'm happy using the no rinse stuff from reputable sources.

Matt

 

[Moonpile]

I no longer attempt to use a secondary unless absolutely necessary, and for two batches of mead that are currently in primary I plan to use bleach at triple the strength, boiling water, and then pour in some grain alcohol and swish it around in the carboy just to make sure - maybe I should lite the alcohol? That'll kill those little beasties! (That lighting the alcohol part is just a joke, a fuel-air explosion like that in a warm carboy would NOT be a good idea). I even sprung for one of those hand-held CO2 dispensers so that I could purge the O2 out of the secondary.

Please don't pour boiling water in your carboy! You'll risk shattering it.

That said, we use secondary frequently. Just make sure that the interior is clean then sanitize with your sanitizer of choice. We use Star-san and in my prior brewing life, 10+ years ago, I've used Iodophor or bleach. Never had a problem.

I'm wondering maybe your racking cane and tubing infected your mead and other batches?

The last time we racked something, I noticed a ring of scum in the tubing. Luckily it was before we racked and it was near enough to the end of the tube that I was able to get it out with a pipe cleaner and then thoroughly rinse and resanitize the tube.

 

[Poindexter]

Hey thanks ma2. That stuff (at home sterility)is still under review. There is an actual ad hoc commitee of surgical RNs at a big teaching hospital looking over at home sterilization.

In general 10% bleach in H2O for twenty minutes is going to kill ~about~ anything, but not everything. One thing I did not know is household bleach starts to lose its potency ~~3 months after the bottle is first opened.

A lot of the CDFC stuff still talks about just wiping with 10% bleach - for like taking care of someone with bird flu.

I will bump that thread when we have current info, but
1) data is always dated, by def and
2) homebrewers don't need sterility, we just need to give the yeast a big enough head start.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Never heard about using vodka in a spray bottle. I'm sure it will sanitize awesome, but it is REALLY flammable. If you're using it anywhere near your burner the overspray could cause problems.

 

[TexLaw]

I don't use StarSan, but I understand it is the best stuff to put in a spray bottle.

By the way, the only reason I don't use StarSan is because I am an "iodophor man" and just haven't come up with a good reason to switch, yet.


TL

 

[the_bird]

I just bought Star-San (haven't used it yet), I've always been an Iodophor man myself. But, I like that Star-San will stay viable for a lot longer. The plan is to keep a keg hooked up to gas (the line splits before it goes in the fridge) so that I always have sanitizer on tap, and can easily hook up that keg to run sanitizer through my lines (as well as dispense when needed). I figure keeping the temperature moderate and having it out of light in the SS keg ought to help maintain its viability, I'll just need to drop the coin on some PH strips to verify once in a while.

 

[Yooper]

I've used one-step for a long time, and sometimes Idophor if I want to make up 2.5 gallons of a sanitizer. I've never had an infection. I always use a clearing tank (secondary) and for wines, I rack at least 5 times for each wine. Since I bottle and use a clearing tank, my beers end up being racked three times- into the primary, into the clearing tank, and then into the bottling bucket. 3 different vessels per batch, and then of course around 48 sanitized bottles per batch.

I am sanitary in my practices, but definitely not anal about it. Everything is clean to the eye, and then sanitized with one-step. I use about a gallon and shake it all around for the big stuff and dunk the small stuff in it. I use the autosiphon to start a siphon with the sanitizer and run it through the tubing and let it sit until I'm ready to use it. I don't do any thing fancy at all- no dishwasher, no baking in the oven, and no bleach. I've made countless batches of wine, beer, mead, and cider and am happy with it.

 

[Sea]

Ranger,

I used bleach for a long time, and I can honestly say that moving to a 2-minute contact time, no-rinse sanitizer (I use Iodophor because it's so darn cheap!), was the best move I ever made. It was like, doh! I am such an idiot for doing things the hard way for so long!

You'll never look back.

 

[rohanski]

Here we go again. I had at least a dozen bad batches in a row as well as another fellow homebrewer in my area. We chased all of the conventional wisdom for a few weeks with bleach, starsan, oxyclean........and nothing worked. The problem it seems is that when you get an infection it forms a scum on the inside of the carboy that is even resistant to bleach. A very thorough scrubbing with a concentrated bleach solution is the ticket. Without scrubbing you will most likely never get rid of it.

 

[thurvin]

I would check your hoses. Replace them to be on the safe side. Carefully with the boiling water and carboys. The carboys are not rated for high temp and might break. I use common dishsoap and lots of rinsing for routine cleaning. When needed I soak my carboy and Ale Pails in bleach sol'n for 1/2 hours for cleaning. I use Iodoform as routine santizer, but I use a soak method for most spray bottles don't spray evenly. (i.e. I fill the container with santizer and let it soak for at least recommend time)

 

[thurvin]

Have you tried Professional Brewers Washing. I have heard a protein/salt build-up can form over time and it give the bad guys somewhere to hide. PBW is said to break this up. Recommend use soak overnight. It is not a santizer and is expensive. I have used a couple time it works great on my glass carboy but it didn't do anything special on my ale pails.

 

[rohanski]

Check out these two links for the whole range of suggestions. Although all very useful the key step that was not mentioned is scrubbing. You might find something here that will be your answer.
http://homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41991
http://homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=42163

 

[gyrfalcon]

Couple weeks ago I thought I'd get fancy and try using secondary fermentation for the first time; I also needed to do that for a mead. At the time, I being a returning brewer after 12 years that knows what I'm doing; you know, a FNG, I must have drifted off at the part where bleach needed to stay in contact with surfaces for at least 20 minutes to sanitize - and three batches of otherwise well tended brews ended up looking like pond scum. The mead was a lovely blood-red raspberry that started going south within hours which was heartbreaking - it looked like a giant petrie dish covered in greenish colonies...

I'm fairly new to brewing, but I'm wondering if maybe the environment you brew in might be causing some of your issues?

That being said, I like to use bleach and glass. So far I haven't had any issues of any consequence.

 

[RangerG]

Thanks for all of the replies, the advice has been really helpful in my understanding of what I am doing, and will invariably save me frustration and money.

I did order some iodophor and it should be here today and I'll try some of the other brands of one-step sanitizers.

As for the tubing, it was new, rinsed with bleach (not soaked for 20 minutes though). I think a big problem was rinsing with bleach but not leaving it in contact with everything long enough.

Hot water from the sink hits my carboy, but thanks for the advice for the boiling water - I'll make sure that I don't learn that one the hard way.

I guess that because I've always swished and rinsed with bleach, and the bottles ended up soaking for longer times, and I hadn't had any problems with simple beer batches, that I assumed that everything I was doing was kosher. Now I read directions more carefully.

I'm going to try secondary fermentation again this weekend and use the iodophor on everything, but I can't resist purging the secondary just so I can use the CO2 cartridge thingy.

 

[APendejo]

Iodophor RAWKS! You can use just a couple of drops of it in a qt. jar of tap water and dump it into your carboy, or secondary bucket. Swirl it around make sure it contacts all surfaces and then drain it. I usually keep my hands well rinsed with the solution also. Iodophor works great with cold water. No need to rinse after.
AP

 

[rohanski]

Scrub!!!!!!

 

[Shockerengr]

I have to pimp Star-san too....it really is no rinse, all you have to remember is "don't fear the foam!"

the foam will sanitize surfaces as well as the liquid, and since it is a sanitizer based on ph (phosphoric acid...same stuff as in pop) it's safe when diluted, so you can rack directly onto the foam!

what i normally do is put about a gallon of solution into a carboy and swish it up real good, then pour the liquid out. There's usually a bunch of foam left that i rack directly onto, as the liquid goes in, the foam gets pushed out, sanitizing as it goes.

Also, the contact time needed for starsan is pretty low, officially, you are supposed to leave for two minutes, but most of the action happens within the first 30 seconds

 

[RangerG]

"All is well, and all will be well, in the garden."

Thanks for the replies - I read everything and all of the links. I have also learned to search the site for my subjects of interest and most of the time the questions have already been answered elsewhere.

I racked to three batches to secondary yesterday using iodophor - it is cheap, and no problems 24 hours later; last time there was a problem in a mead just hours after racking - looked like a HS culturing project. I'm also getting some starsan in in a couple of days.

Thanks again cause me brewing is already taking on more nuance and I am going to need the secondary and lagering tanks more and more and more.