I think I have the competition blues??

[drkwoods]

First of all I have been homebrewing for about 25 years
Over those years though I have only entered about 10 competitions
I'll usually enter 2, 4 or maybe six beers and I have always gotten a ribbon or medal. Last month I entered a relatively large competition with over 300 entries. This time I entered eight beers all of which I thought could have gotten a gold medal. I have won two Silvers and a bronze at the Aha's At the current time I have an investor and a restauranteur who both think my beers are good enough to open a brew pub and are willing to invest 25 to 50,000 $. But right now I'm really bummed because I got completely blank at this last big competition. How do I get past this? I know competitions are completely subjective, but I'm just really feeling down right now. My partners in this venture are going to want to know how I did. I'm not afraid to tell them I'm just embarrassed. What advice could you give me?

 

[Yooper]

Remember that competitions are all about nailing the style guidelines perfectly. So a very good beer that has great flavor and is well loved may not do well, if the "toasty" flavor is not part of the style guidelines and the beer has that quality. I've judged some excellent beers in competition that did poorly, because they were not entered in the correct category.

When you get your scoresheets back, read the comments and find out why it didn't do well. If they picked up off flavors, that's one thing. But it's possible that they simply didn't not perfectly capture the style guidelines laid out in the BJCP.

 

[AmandaK]

When you get your scoresheets back, read the comments and find out why it didn't do well. If they picked up off flavors, that's one thing. But it's possible that they simply didn't not perfectly capture the style guidelines laid out in the BJCP.

THIS.

Entering is not about medals/trophies/ribbons for me, it's about making my beers better through the comments.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Remember that competitions are all about nailing the style guidelines perfectly.

There's a LOT more to it than just that. Given a range of flavors, generally the beer that is the most flavorful within the range will often take the win.

Sadly, a lot of BJCP judges think that "more assertive", while staying in style, is what makes a great beer.

I have a marzen that scored very poorly at a recent competition because it was one of the last ones judged in the flight. Since it was more delicate and not as bold, it only got a 24. I was a bit p*ssed especially when the judge said "Too much pilsener malt" when there was not a single oz of pilsener (it was mostly vienna).

MC

 

[Denny]

Sit down with a glass of the beers you entered and read through the comments. Look at the as objectively as you can. Then decide if the judges detected something you missed or if you think they were off base.

 

[NickTheGreat]

 

[wonderbread23]

Keep a couple things in mind.

1. Any given beer can get lost in a given competition, especially big ones. That being said having 8 beers in a 300 beer competitions should have normalized this... although, you could be just unlucky.

2. Beer competitions have gotten quite competitive with more people entering and the average skillset of each brewer becoming higher. Beers that might have place 2-4 years ago may no longer make the cut.

3. Perhaps you have a flavor blindspot to an off-flavor that could be present in your beers. Some people can't taste certain things that will quickly get you dinged in a competition (like diacetyl, acetylaldehyde, phenols, etc.).

 

[david_42]

Competitions are very competitive these days, so checking your scores and the judges' comments are important. Also, in that large a field, I suspect there were a number of first-time judges. I would definitely pay more attention to scores from BJCP-certified judges.

 

[drkwoods]

THIS.

Entering is not about medals/trophies/ribbons for me, it's about making my beers better through the comments.

Yea I've gotta see those score sheets. But 4 of my beers were in Catagory 20/21/22/23. And styles guidelines there aren't as tight are they?

 

[Piratwolf]

I've also heard that home brew has gotten exponentially better in the last few years. I was listening to a late 2010 BN episode yesterday, and they were saying that in 2006-7 about 1/2 the competition homebrews were "dumpers" while at the one they'd just gone to only one of about 30 they tried wasn't good enough to drink.

Anecdotal, I know, and perhaps tangential to your experience, but it's what came to mind reading this post.

That said, if you've got restaurant guys interested, you're way ahead of me. Chase the dream!!

 

[BigEd]

There's a LOT more to it than just that. Given a range of flavors, generally the beer that is the most flavorful within the range will often take the win.

Sadly, a lot of BJCP judges think that "more assertive", while staying in style, is what makes a great beer.

I have a marzen that scored very poorly at a recent competition because it was one of the last ones judged in the flight. Since it was more delicate and not as bold, it only got a 24. I was a bit p*ssed especially when the judge said "Too much pilsener malt" when there was not a single oz of pilsener (it was mostly vienna).

MC

That's pretty much on the nose, IMO. The "Beer Advocate Effect" has certainly crept into competition judging over the years. There also seem to be a large number of judges who know next to nothing about brewing. Obviously it is not a requirement but I do think at least some background in beer production and raw ingredients gives you a step up when evaluating beers.

 

[Denny]

You should just ignore any judge who makes comments about what's in your beer. They have no way of knowing. They should stick to describing what they sense.

I've judged at more than a few comps where the biggest, over the top beer didn't win. In each of those we picked a beer that exhibitied subtlety and finesse over one that clobbered you with IBU or ABV.

 

[Phunhog]

The other thing to remember is that your beer could have received a really good score...over 40 and still not medaled. It just depends on the other beers. A 40 in one comp could get you 1st but in another.....nothing. Just curious was the comp the Hangar 24 Competition?

 

[genes]

Seriously??? Get a grip.

 

[CastleHollow]

I hear ya. My perspective would be this: if people like my beer and a restauranteur & investor are willing to put them out there for commercial consumption, then I wouldn't care what some judges thought. Especially with 25 years of experience and a winning pedigree. But I'm an arrogant SOB anyway when it comes to my beer.

Either that, or don't try to sell those particular recipes.

 

[whitehause]

I've had popular commercial beers that I've thought were terrible.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I hear ya. My perspective would be this: if people like my beer and a restauranteur & investor are willing to put them out there for commercial consumption, then I wouldn't care what some judges thought. Especially with 25 years of experience and a winning pedigree. But I'm an arrogant SOB anyway when it comes to my beer.

But... What's the restaurateur know about good beer? Because he likes what he had doesn't really have much weight.

I recently tasted a beer from a couple of young brewers, who got JUST that "good enough to sell" comment. When I tasted it... I could definitely taste the extract twang. Needless to say, we had to tiptoe through their ego and let them know that it's not "great beer" and that they'd crash and burn with it.

MC

 

[drkwoods]

I've also heard that home brew has gotten exponentially better in the last few years. I was listening to a late 2010 BN episode yesterday, and they were saying that in 2006-7 about 1/2 the competition homebrews were "dumpers" while at the one they'd just gone to only one of about 30 they tried wasn't good enough to drink.

Anecdotal, I know, and perhaps tangential to your experience, but it's what came to mind reading this post.

That said, if you've got restaurant guys interested, you're way ahead of me. Chase the dream!!

Thanx man I'm all for that!

 

[drkwoods]

The other thing to remember is that your beer could have received a really good score...over 40 and still not medaled. It just depends on the other beers. A 40 in one comp could get you 1st but in another.....nothing. Just curious was the comp the Hangar 24 Competition?

Yea the Hangar24. I noticed the winners are pretty much the same 4 guys. I tasted the best of show and (being a sommelier, I have a very good palate) I thought my Belgian killed that beer but yea I'm curious if it was style profile problems they had with mine or just too many great beers making it tough to taste so many

 

[drkwoods]

I hear ya. My perspective would be this: if people like my beer and a restauranteur & investor are willing to put them out there for commercial consumption, then I wouldn't care what some judges thought. Especially with 25 years of experience and a winning pedigree. But I'm an arrogant SOB anyway when it comes to my beer.

Either that, or don't try to sell those particular recipes.

Well I'm no Sam Caligione or Jim Koch but my stuff is unique and slightly out of the box.
Not losing grip here, I think I'm expecting too much that's all

 

[drkwoods]

But... What's the restaurateur know about good beer? Because he likes what he had doesn't really make much sense.

I recently tasted a beer from a couple of young brewers, who got JUST that "good enough to sell" comment. When I tasted it... I could definitely taste the extract twang. Needless to say, we had to tiptoe through their ego and let them know that it's not "great beer" and that they'd crash and burn with it.

MC

This particular restauranteur is involved in wine and beer distributing and sells and knows well the geek beers. So I'll give him that credit

 

[bumstigedy]

I think that competition has gotten tougher and more people are brewing. Seems like everyone i talk I these days is brewing or knows someone who does. With all the great info out there from brewing network podcasts, HBT, books, brewing tv, etc... people can hone their skills quicker than in the past. It's not uncommon to read a post on here from a 1 yr brewer who has won best of show.

 

[broadbill]

Well I'm no Sam Caligione or Jim Koch but my stuff is unique and slightly out of the box.
Not losing grip here, I think I'm expecting too much that's all

As Yooper stated, competition is all about conforming to style. If your stuff is "out of the box" you are already behind the ball. There are a bunch of people who brew just to enter into competition....you can't compete with that if you are doing "unique" beers.

 

[pjj2ba]

There's a LOT more to it than just that. Given a range of flavors, generally the beer that is the most flavorful within the range will often take the win.

Sadly, a lot of BJCP judges think that "more assertive", while staying in style, is what makes a great beer.

I have a marzen that scored very poorly at a recent competition because it was one of the last ones judged in the flight. Since it was more delicate and not as bold, it only got a 24. I was a bit p*ssed especially when the judge said "Too much pilsener malt" when there was not a single oz of pilsener (it was mostly vienna).

MC

That's pretty much on the nose, IMO. The "Beer Advocate Effect" has certainly crept into competition judging over the years. There also seem to be a large number of judges who know next to nothing about brewing. Obviously it is not a requirement but I do think at least some background in beer production and raw ingredients gives you a step up when evaluating beers.

I had a kolsch that the judges said did have the fruitiness is was supposed to, but they said it needed MORE????? Uh, this is supposed to be a subtle note, not in your face, wow, that is fruity. This may partly be because that is what a number of domestic version are, but the stuff in Cologne is definitely subtle. Heck for most of the ones I tried over there you could imagine away the subtle fruitiness and think you were drinking a typical German pilsner. You could give a true Kolsch to somebody and tell them it was a pilsner and they might find it different then expected, but not be able to put their "finger" on what is different about it

 

[Phunhog]

Yea the Hangar24. I noticed the winners are pretty much the same 4 guys. I tasted the best of show and (being a sommelier, I have a very good palate) I thought my Belgian killed that beer but yea I'm curious if it was style profile problems they had with mine or just too many great beers making it tough to taste so many

Well I know how you feel. Last year I entered an amber ale into a local comp and thought it was pretty good. I don't know what happened but a BJCP Grand Master gave it a 13!!! A 13!!! I was depressed for days. Flash forward to the Hangar 24 Comp this year...somehow I was able to pull off a Silver for my Kolsch and a Bronze for my Green Chile Blonde. I think there is still a bit of luck involved with winning contests, but what is more important is the judges comments.

 

[RosewaterFoundation]

There are so many factors in comps that you can't control, you shouldn't feel bad, just focus on improving where you can, like packaging/storage. Also, use this as fuel to brew more, better beer.

 

[cmybeer]

Just because your beers deserved a medal of some kind doesn't mean that other beers didn't deserve them just as much or more. There's nothing wrong with loosing out every once and a while. It sounds like you make great beer and just had some bad luck this go round

 

[joelrapp]

I swore off competitions after getting my scoresheets back from the AHA competition and the judges dinging me for qualities in the beer that were clearly stated in the BJCP as being part of the style. Pissed me off.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I swore off competitions after getting my scoresheets back from the AHA competition and the judges dinging me for qualities in the beer that were clearly stated in the BJCP as being part of the style. Pissed me off.

Sadly, it happens a lot.

MC

 

[drkwoods]

I think that competition has gotten tougher and more people are brewing. Seems like everyone i talk I these days is brewing or knows someone who does. With all the great info out there from brewing network podcasts, HBT, books, brewing tv, etc... people can hone their skills quicker than in the past. It's not uncommon to read a post on here from a 1 yr brewer who has won best of show.

I think your dead on right

 

[drkwoods]

As Yooper stated, competition is all about conforming to style. If your stuff is "out of the box" you are already behind the ball. There are a bunch of people who brew just to enter into competition....you can't compete with that if you are doing "unique" beers.

Well I'll give you an example. I have a Pliny the elder clone that several people think is very very close and in fact a couple friends think its better (fresher I think) anyhoo I entered it in this comp as a 14c. I mean common you nail PTE shouldn't that win something? Or are we at the point where IPA Is so progressive that if you snuck a real bottle of PTE in it wouldn't impress anymore? I dont have any scores yet so i don't know but just sayin

 

[drkwoods]

Well I know how you feel. Last year I entered an amber ale into a local comp and thought it was pretty good. I don't know what happened but a BJCP Grand Master gave it a 13!!! A 13!!! I was depressed for days. Flash forward to the Hangar 24 Comp this year...somehow I was able to pull off a Silver for my Kolsch and a Bronze for my Green Chile Blonde. I think there is still a bit of luck involved with winning contests, but what is more important is the judges comments.

Congrats!! I got the silver in light hybrid last year. Entered the same beer again (fresh batch) and got blanked. I guess this is def a Learning experience as I try to figure out what these guys want. I said earlier I'm a little out of the box. But not with my recipes I'm usually to style if it enter anything from category 1-19

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Judging is a crapshoot. Sometimes you get quality judges and you read the feedback (good or bad), and you can tell they know what they're talking about.

Other times, you get a big fat joke. I competed in the San Diego fair a couple years ago with a Belgian IPA in 16e, and the judge told me to "check my hot-side aeration" -- among other completely off-base notes. This guy really thinks he can taste beer well enough to detect HSA -- something usually associated with long-term shelf stability -- in a beer that was maybe 5-6 weeks old? Yeah. I'll believe that!

 

[AngerManagement]

I feel your pain, I didn't win sh*t at H24 either.

 

[AmandaK]

I swore off competitions after getting my scoresheets back from the AHA competition and the judges dinging me for qualities in the beer that were clearly stated in the BJCP as being part of the style. Pissed me off.

I've met a few, let's call them "cocky", judges that refuse to give a beer that is within style a good score if it is not within their "personal idea" of the style. For example: if a dopplebock was light in color, he specifically stated he would give it a 13. Dopplebocks actually have two versions: light and dark. Both are discussed in the BJCP. The light version should not receive a 13 based on color alone.

Sh*t like that really pisses me off, especially from "high ranking" judges. I studied very hard for my BJCP exam, nearly got a Master score on the first try, I review the guidelines and keep an open mind when judging. I am often looked down upon by these same "cocky" judges just because I'm new to the ranks.

When I judge a beer, I always keep in mind how I would feel if I got this score sheet back. It is always completely filled out. The scores generally match the comments. The Overall Impression score is usually an average of the other scores. I never assume what ingredients or processes were used in the beer, but I can say, "If xxx was used, try this..." I won't ever just say, "Too much Pilsner". That is unfair to the entrant who paid good money to enter and most likely ship their entries to the competition.


That being said, I would email the judge directly. I've done that several times, especially when the Flavor section ended in "Alcohol warmth is...". YIKES.

 

[phoenixs4r]

Some folks get way too serious about beer.

 

[BigfootCounty]

Well I'm no Sam Caligione or Jim Koch but my stuff is unique and slightly out of the box.
Not losing grip here, I think I'm expecting too much that's all

You entered some categories that I would think would be stiff competition.

Not even Babe Ruth hit a home run every time.

Like other people mentioned earlier there are people who are willing to invest substantial money based on their ability of your skill.