I screwed up my Dopplebock and am not sure how to fix it...

[ViperMan]

step starter, AKA stepping up: making several starter, each bigger than the previous, to get to the desire yeast population. there is a limit to how much growth you can get out of a starter, so if you need a lot of yeast or you are starting with a small population, you need to build up in steps. an example is harvesting yeast from a bottle of commercial beer. you can't just pitch the dregs into a 2 liter starter and expect massive growth. instead you should start with 100 ml of starter, let that ferment, then make a 500 ml starter, let ferment, cold crash, decant spent wort, and finally make a 2 liter starter.

high krausen: krausen is the white foam that appears on the surface of beer during fermentation. so "high krausen" is when the foam is at its highest - AKA the peak of fermentation. you want the yeast to be active and in chomping mode before adding it to an environment that contains alcohol.

i take it that you didn't make a starter with the san diego? you just pitched it directly? should still work but won't be as effective.

I gotcha on both counts. I read that you CAN generally get a pretty decent doubling of your yeast with a 3L starter, but that from there you're better off "stepping". That being said (or read?) I DID make a 3L starter of the San Diego yeast. I can also say with confidence that there was at LEAST twice the "goop" at the bottom as there is in a vial of White Labs. Unfortunately I was not able to pitch at high priestess... I mean krausen (lol again) because I THOUGHT my original yeast was coming back to life. So I cold-crashed it for about 2 days until yesterday when I realized my satellite fermenter was lying to me...

Seriously - any idea why the small bottle (a repurposed 8oz apple juice bottle - SANITIZED before use...) would show yeast activity and the 3-gallon FV does not?? I mean I had new trub in the bottom and everything... The FV's OG did not BUDGE since I diluted... SO weird!!

...anyways, this morning in a perfect 70-degree environment both my mini-bottle (I pulled out a new sample after pitching) and fermenter are fermenting actively. I've read this San Diego acts quickly, so I'm hoping I can bottle by next weekend. I also suspect the San Diego will have no problem bottle-carbing. I just wonder how long it'll take to settle out for the beer to be drinkable...

 

[ViperMan]

PS - laughing at the voting results. I voted for "no one will ask for another."

 

[ViperMan]

Quick update: WLP090 has dropped it down to 1.028 so far. It's slowing but still bubbling. The sample tastes pretty good but WOW is it boozy...

 

[sweetcell]

glad to hear that the 090 is working.

The sample tastes pretty good but WOW is it boozy...

your OG was 1.120 - what did you expect?!?

 

[ViperMan]

I know, I know... I think I might try redoing this beer in a 1-gallon micro batch later this summer, just to see what it "could have been."

 

[weirdboy]

All good and well, but you're still going to end up with the same sweet beer, except it will now be diluted a little (.5 gal in 5 gal = 10%).

Uh, no...that's not how it works.

The sugars will also be diluted. Does a 50% solution of sugar taste the same as a 25% solution of sugar?


Diluting will effectively lower the FG and help reduce the sweetness of the beer. Commercial breweries dilute their beer all the time, on purpose, to hit their targets.


By adding .5 gallons, the FG will go from 1.035 to 1.029. Still a bit high, but diluting a bit more to 3.5 gallons from 2.5 gallons would take it to 1.025.


35 x 2.5 / 3.5 = 25 ==> 1.025

This will also reduce the ABV. It will still be pretty boozy, though. I mean really you should be lagering this thing for a few months before drinking it anyway.
But the OP doesn't even need to take my word for it. They can try this out by pulling a small 4.25oz (hydrometer-sized) sample and diluting it to 6oz, then tasting it to see if it's still as sweet. Be sure to stir it up a bit and maybe give it 15-20 minutes before tasting, to be sure it's homogeneous. In fact, take two 4.25oz samples and dilute one, then compare them side-by-side.

If you want to then try 1.020 then dilute it a bit more by adding another ounce or so of water to your 1.025 sample.

 

[ViperMan]

I had considered diluting more, but I think one thing that we never really discuss is the FLAVOR of the beer... I mean, dilute a soda (say by adding ice and then letting it melt) and it tastes like crap. So whereas diluting the beer would help the "numbers" work out better, it'd also dilute that yummy "liquid grain" taste which quite frankly wasn't that great to begin with, thanks to my miserable efficiency to start with. Most of my sugar in this beer is from actual sugar, so I didn't want to dilute to a point that the actual grain flavors take two much of a backseat.

I'm really hoping I can get this beer bottled by the middle of this week...

 

[weirdboy]

Yes a soda tastes like crap because it's supposed to be sweet and by adding a bunch of water you're diluting the sweetness (what you WANT to do in the beer). I don't know about what most of your sugar in the beer is, but most of it appears not to be fermentable, so it's leaving that residual sweetness. I have seen people talking about 10-11% being too high or whatever due to alcohol tolerance, but I have made high alcohol beers with the same strains of yeast that I see people here on HBT claiming cannot handle it. I made a 15%+ mead with bread yeast from Costco.


Seriously, just try it with a small hydrometer sample. What have you got to lose?

 

[ViperMan]

Sample is down to 1.021 and is holding steady. I had to delay my tasting event due to a family member having a medical procedure, so it buys me the rest of this week to let it settle before I bottle it. With the dilution, my ABV is actually down to about 9.6%. I like the taste of the sample and am anxious to get it carbonated.

 

[adamc]

What a work in progress!! Keep us updated

 

[ViperMan]

I'm so sick and tired of this damned brew... Sample still read 1.021 so I went to bottle - good thing I checked my FV - it's still at 1.026!! WTF?!?!?!

 

[ViperMan]

UPDATE - FINALLY bottled this stuff!! The OG fell much further than I had hoped, courtesy of the WLP090. It leveled off at 1.016, putting my ABV back up to 10.3%. Personally I think it'll be awful and undrinkable as there just isn't enough body to back it up, but we'll see. I did label a few bottles - I'll get that pic up soon.

I actually bottled it a week ago, so we'll see how long it takes to bottle carb...