I received my water tests back. Analysis please ?

[Wingfan13]

I submitted 2 samples. One directly from the faucet and one from the filter we have. Can someone please tell me what I should be doing with my water ? I already use a tablespoon of 5.2.

Faucet Sink
pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 303
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.50
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.1 / 5.3
ppm
Sodium, Na 28
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 38
Magnesium, Mg 23
Total Hardness, CaCO3 191
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 11
Chloride, Cl 46
Carbonate, CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 186
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 162
Fluoride, F 0.77
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

Filter
pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 286
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.48
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.1 / 5.0
ppm
Sodium, Na 28
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 37
Magnesium, Mg 23
Total Hardness, CaCO3 188
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.9 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 11
Chloride, Cl 48
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 174
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 143
Fluoride, F 0.64
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

Thanks in advance and I appreciate the help.

 

[bobbrews]

Your water filter doesn't seem to be doing much.

I have never used 5.2, but I've heard numerous people recommend against it.

I would look into lowering bicarbonate and alkalinity, while boosting calcium and sulfate. The other numbers are decent. What style of beers do you mainly brew?

 

[Wingfan13]

Your water filter doesn't seem to be doing much.

I have never used 5.2, but I've heard numerous people recommend against it.

I would look into lowering bicarbonate and alkalinity, while boosting calcium and sulfate. The other numbers are decent. What style of beers do you mainly brew?

I really brew everything but if I had to tell you my favorite style, I would say IPA's. The filter could be very old. We bought this house a year ago and it is just one that goes under the sink and has a spout in the sink. For all I know the filter has never been changed.

What was the reasons for not using 5.2 ?

How to I go about changing the water trying to lower bicarbonate and alkalinity and raising calcium and sulfate ? Is it easy ?

 

[mabrungard]

5.2 apparently uses phosphate buffers that do not produce a desirable mash pH in actual use. This has been proven in numerous tests by qualified brewers and technicians. It does add a significant quantity of sodium that may or may not be desirable for beer taste.

I assume the filter is probably an activated carbon filter or particulate filter. Neither of those filter media will change the ionic content that is of interest to brewing. The results above are not surprising.

This water isn't too bad. The main problem is the alkalinity level. Learning to properly dose the water with acid will make a huge improvement in brewing with this water. Bru'n Water has calculators for figuring out acid additions. Acid will help you, 5.2 will not.

 

[Wingfan13]

5.2 apparently uses phosphate buffers that do not produce a desirable mash pH in actual use. This has been proven in numerous tests by qualified brewers and technicians. It does add a significant quantity of sodium that may or may not be desirable for beer taste.

I assume the filter is probably an activated carbon filter or particulate filter. Neither of those filter media will change the ionic content that is of interest to brewing. The results above are not surprising.

This water isn't too bad. The main problem is the alkalinity level. Learning to properly dose the water with acid will make a huge improvement in brewing with this water. Bru'n Water has calculators for figuring out acid additions. Acid will help you, 5.2 will not.

Thanks. I am going to work with Bru'n Water today and see if I can figure it out.

 

[broadbill]

5.2 apparently uses phosphate buffers that do not produce a desirable mash pH in actual use. This has been proven in numerous tests by qualified brewers and technicians. It does add a significant quantity of sodium that may or may not be desirable for beer taste.
.

Do you have any links on this?

 

[ajdelange]

All you need is the MSDS which clearly states that the product contains phosphate buffers. Buffers have their maximum buffering capacity close to the pK's of the acid (phosphoric here) and minimum buffering capacity half way between. The rule of thumb is that buffers are not designed for more than 1 pH unit away from the closest pK. The two pertinent pK's for phosphoric acid are 2.12 and 7.23. Half way between these, 4.66, where the buffering is minimum, is 0.56 from 5.2 which is, in turn, 2.03 units from the closest pK. Thus phosphate is a bad choice for a 5.2 buffer (but a good choice for a 7.0 buffer and indeed the pH calibration buffers used for pH meter calibration are phosphate buffers). This is why we say 5.2 is not an effective product based on theoretical considerations.

Measurements in the laboratory confirm that the salts are the dibasic and monobasic sodium salts but they also show that the product actually buffers DI water to closer to 5.9. Apparently the manufacturer is relying on malt phosphate to provide the proper ratio of mono to di basic phosphate.

Laboratory measurements confirm that at the recommended dose the product will not buffer even base malt to a pH of 5.2

 

[Wingfan13]

All you need is the MSDS which clearly states that the product contains phosphate buffers. Buffers have their maximum buffering capacity close to the pK's of the acid (phosphoric here) and minimum buffering capacity half way between. The rule of thumb is that buffers are not designed for more than 1 pH unit away from the closest pK. The two pertinent pK's for phosphoric acid are 2.12 and 7.23. Half way between these, 4.66, where the buffering is minimum, is 0.56 from 5.2 which is, in turn, 2.03 units from the closest pK. Thus phosphate is a bad choice for a 5.2 buffer (but a good choice for a 7.0 buffer and indeed the pH calibration buffers used for pH meter calibration are phosphate buffers). This is why we say 5.2 is not an effective product based on theoretical considerations.

Measurements in the laboratory confirm that the salts are the dibasic and monobasic sodium salts but they also show that the product actually buffers DI water to closer to 5.9. Apparently the manufacturer is relying on malt phosphate to provide the proper ratio of mono to di basic phosphate.

Laboratory measurements confirm that at the recommended dose the product will not buffer even base malt to a pH of 5.2

Soo...I should throw my 5.2 buffer out ?

 

[Yooper]

Soo...I should throw my 5.2 buffer out ?

I did. Well, not not really. I had two jars, one was opened. I gave away the unopened jar to a fellow brewer here on the forum who wanted to try it. I kept the opened jar and I may try to use it in my sparge water to lower my alkalinity. Right now, I'm using phosphoric or lactic acid in my sparge water to reduce the alkalinity, though, and it works so I haven't even thought about the 5.2 stuff lately.

One thing I started doing was using my tap water (not much different than yours) with purchased RO water, diluting it about 40% with the RO water. That made a very good improvement in my IPAs/APAs/Ambers. I used Bru'n water and it worked really well (once I figured it out- it's not as easy as EZ water spreadsheet! ). It worked so well for me that I purchased my own RO water unit about 6 weeks ago. I use 100% tap water for my oatmeal stout, and 100% RO for my Bohemian pilsner, and every other style is a mix. It only takes about 15 minutes to figure out the water profile for each beer when I do the recipe.

I'm NO water chemistry expert like mbrungard and AJdeLange are. But I've really learned a few things from them than anybody can do, so I wanted to share. One of the big things I've found is that "less is more". Truly. My beers have been really great with a minimum of water additions, as long as I manage the alkalinity.

 

[Wingfan13]

I did. Well, not not really. I had two jars, one was opened. I gave away the unopened jar to a fellow brewer here on the forum who wanted to try it. I kept the opened jar and I may try to use it in my sparge water to lower my alkalinity. Right now, I'm using phosphoric or lactic acid in my sparge water to reduce the alkalinity, though, and it works so I haven't even thought about the 5.2 stuff lately.

One thing I started doing was using my tap water (not much different than yours) with purchased RO water, diluting it about 40% with the RO water. That made a very good improvement in my IPAs/APAs/Ambers. I used Bru'n water and it worked really well (once I figured it out- it's not as easy as EZ water spreadsheet! ). It worked so well for me that I purchased my own RO water unit about 6 weeks ago. I use 100% tap water for my oatmeal stout, and 100% RO for my Bohemian pilsner, and every other style is a mix. It only takes about 15 minutes to figure out the water profile for each beer when I do the recipe.

I'm NO water chemistry expert like mbrungard and AJdeLange are. But I've really learned a few things from them than anybody can do, so I wanted to share. One of the big things I've found is that "less is more". Truly. My beers have been really great with a minimum of water additions, as long as I manage the alkalinity.

Thanks for the reply. I really would like a simple way to treat my water so it is pretty good for all beer types for now. I know nothing about how to treat my water and I thought using 5.2 would help. I guess not. I need to figure out what to add to my water now. Thanks

 

[ACESFULL]

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