I need your help with my Recipe!

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I'll take a hint from Darren Queen our new article writer & do something worthwhile. I'll ask for help!

After 3 years of brewing some fantastic recipes I've found here on HBT & elsewhere. http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/2011/10/ahanhc-gold-medal-winning-recipes-for.html I figured I'd strike out on my own.

My beer was a flop and I need some help to tell me what I did wrong.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP023, & WLP005
Yeast Starter: Yes-2 liter
Original Gravity: 1.052 - 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.012 - 1.013
IBU: 37
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 13-14
ABV 5%
Primary Fermentation: 14 days @ 68*
Secondary Fermentation: 14 Days @ 68*
Aged: Kegged, chilled, and Carb'd for one week = 7 days @ 39*

2 tsp. Gypsum
1 tsp. Calcium Chloride
18 lbs. Pale Malt, Maris Otter
13 oz. Chrystal Malt 60L
13 oz. Victory Malt
3.0 oz. East Kent Goldings Boil for 90 minutes
1.5 oz. Challenger Boil for 15 minutes
1.0 oz. Northdown Boil for 10 minutes
1.0 oz. Northdown Boil for 1 minute
2L Yeast Starter on stir plate for 48 hours

I like it bitter. I LOVE Bass Ale. I was trying for a balanced bitter with complex layers & mouthfeel. I am aiming for bitter, malty, bready, mouthfeel. Note the Maris Otter, the Victory, the EKG, & the yeast. Use 1 yeast per 5 gallon carboy. I'm all about experimentation.

After my 3 years experience in home brewing, 50+ batches, this is my 1st try at creating my own recipe. I know what I like, let's try and create that.

Use a blow off tube & get ready. Remember we're brewing beer & not putting a man on the moon. RDWHAHB.

Conclusion:

I brewed 10 gallon of this beer & added the wort to 2 different 5 gallon carboys. I used different yeast in each of them, the WLP023 which added a fruity zest to the beer, quite nice. I also tried the WLP005 which adds a malty, bready quality to the brew while being very dry, not impressed. I WAS UNDERWHELMED BY BOTH BEERS. They were too complex. It ended up as a muddled mess. Ugh. Next time I try my own recipe, I'm only going to do 1 batch of 5 gallons. Stick with proven recipes that I've already enjoyed the commercial version or have won awards. The fruity yeast of WLP023 was very good. I'll use that again, but I goofed on the malt.

Please Help.

 

[rhys333]

Next time I try my own recipe, I'm only going to do 1 batch of 5 gallons. Stick with proven recipes that I've already enjoyed the commercial version or have won awards.

I like to search out proven recipes, brew them, then start tweaking to suit my specific tastes. I find this helps me learn which ingredients work well together.

When I create my own evil concoctions, I prefer to work with fewer ingredients (2-3 malts and 1-2 hops) so that I can really taste them in the beer. I'll often do smaller 3 gallon batches too, that way I only have to choke down half the amount if its not awesome.

 

[BigPicture]

Yup,

I've had better results with 1 or 2 speciality malts combined with 1 or 2 hops at the most.

I guess my best method of improvement is to copy these winning recipes, experiment & take it slow. One thing at a time!

I did too much at once. I got too cocky after following HBT instructions and having too many winners in a row.

 

[rorypayne]

I recommend trying some SMaSHs. It will really give you the ability to taste specific ingredients so when you start going more complex you know what to keep and what to toss the next time you brew it.

 

[rlmiller10]

I am surprised it is so muddled. You only have three malts and they should work together fine. The EGK is adding nothing but bitter since it is boiled 90 minutes. It could have been magnum or anything else and not made a difference so you are only tasting two hops flavors. So now only two hops are giving flavors. I am not familiar with them so not sure what they give. But I am left thinking it is your yeast and possibly the fermentation temp that is causing your muddled flavors.

I would try a smaller batch but first time use a more neutral yeast, perhaps nottingham and ferment it cool at 63 or so. See if your hops and malt are giving what you want. Then you can change up the yeast to put in additional English layers.

 

[Yooper]

Why the gypsum and calcium chloride? What was you mash pH, and your water profile?

I'm not sure about challenger or northdown hops late in the boil, as I've never done that but I do love EKG hops.

 

[BigPicture]

We get our water from Folsom Lake, then it is purified by a water treatment plant. Our base profile here in Roseville.
Ca = 6.5 = Calcium
Mg = 2.6 = Magnesium
Na = 2.6 = Sodium
SO4 = 2.8 = Sulfate
CL = 1.6 = Chloride
HCO3 = 35 = Bicarbonate

I run it thru a Charcoal filter after an RV hose in place of the garden hose. I brew outside with a DIY keggle & a DIY Coleman Cooler. (another HBT win)

Per BREW magazine:

Most homebrews benefit from a simple addition of Gypsum & Calcium Chloride. This makes the hops pop! Adding anything else simply makes the beer taste more medicine like.

You can further improve the taste of your beer by increasing its malt flavor, while offsetting harsh bitterness, by adding a little Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt to the same filtered, chlorine and chloride free water. I think of brewing water as a way to brighten the color and taste of my beer, in much the same way a treble control is used to increase the brightness of music during playback. It is true that water with high sulfate content enhances the sharp, bitter aspect of the hops, it's easily overdone. The result can be a chalky, metallic, or harsh character.. If you have soft water, add some Gypsum or Burton Salts, but start low, targeting half the amount of sulfate typical of Burton water. If you're really interested in learning more about creating the perfect brewing water profile visit the EZ Water Calculator site and download their free easy to use spreadsheet. It takes all the guesswork out of adjusting your water properties while keeping your additions within safe recommended ranges. There is a whole lot more to water chemistry, but you can begin to get your feet wet using just a few little tweaks and produce some really great beers.

I'm thinking of just using EKG for all the additions next time, and substituting just a regular US 2 Row pale malt for the Marris Otter????????????????

I've been told to really pay attention to the fermentation temp. Right now I just keep it in the closet. pH? I have no idea. Is the Son of a Fermentation Chamber my next build? http://www.justbrewitjax.com/files/chiller.pdf

I was thinking a SMASH would be good too, but I'm kinda gun shy. I really goofed this one up, lets fix this before I move on. Brew magazine also has some proven SMASH recipes a few months back...................... that's a thought.

I wanna just fix this muddy beer 1st. Is a layered bitter with mouthfeel just over doing it????? Is the Victory clashing with the Crystal 60?????? Per Beersmith: Victory malt gives a biscuit flavor (think bready). The Crystal, I've been told, gives it mouthfeel together with a nice head. The yeast came thru without a problem, the issue is not there.

 

[beerbaker]

Keep the Maris Otter. It's delicious. Along with the maris otter I used a small amount of crystal 120, brown malt, and aromatic malt. (I see lots of recipes that use Special B, but I couldn't get my hands on any at the time). I also used EKG for all of my hop additions. And Wyeast 1968 London ESB yeast. Now, my recipe wasn't perfect, but I made it twice and people inhaled it. But definitely keep the Maris otter.

 

[chickypad]

I really don't think it's the grainbill. MO with 4% crystal and 4% victory should be nice. Without plugging it into a calculator and/or confirming your actual pH the water additions look okay given the soft, low alkalinity water (do you check your pH?). I'm not familiar with the late hops though I can say the one time I used 023 it was a weird, fruity mess and I will not use it again. Can't speak to the 005, are those yeasts new to you? I'm with the others in that you can't go wrong with all EKG, and maybe next time use a yeast you know you like.

Edit: oops, just saw that you actually liked the 023. I will say I tend to favor the less fruity strains like 1335, 007, etc., so you may want to ignore my comments on the yeast.

 

[sky4meplease]

Without really digging into your recipe, chemistry or processes I would modestly add this.
I tried building my own recipes before really knowing much about ingredients or styles and quickly made some muddled messes that I regretfully called beer.
I then got my hands on the BJCP styles guidelines and started using that to help me choose ingredients and processes for brewing.
While I will admit this approach is still in its infancy the benefits have been amazingly immediate.

 

[BigPicture]

Less is More!

5 gallons & scale the recipe as such.
Mash at 156* to achieve this mouthfeel
only EKG.

I'm going to try a different yeast. Wyeast #1275 = Thames Valley Ale.

Per Beersmith, #1275: British Bitters, ESB, India Pale Ale, English Strong Ale. Clean, complex flavor. Low in fruit, low in esters, rich in flavor. Hops come through well. Per HBT: Thames Valley (WLP1275) is a workhorse strain (use a blow of tube) - with lots of wonderful English character. It really accentuates the malt and there's a soft complimentary fruitiness.

The key for me is taking it slow & adjust. Learn from my experience. You guys have given me some very helpful advice. Thank you.

 

[mrdail87]

My guess is it's the late hop additions that are overpowering it. If you like a mild hop flavor, EKG is a great choice though.

I'd say just stick with EKG throughout the whole beer. Challenger and Northdown are relatively high alpha hops, which distinctly different flavors.

As everyone else is saying though, don't give up on it. Everyone misses the mark sometimes. Try some SMaSH brews to get a handle on flavors.

Also, simply your hop additions at first until you get a handle on the recipe. Add at 60 for the bitter of course, and 15 for flavor/aroma.