I need a good (but not too good) whiskey for my Imperial Stout

[Braufessor]

Just from experience with RIS, 12 oz of bourbon in a 5 gallon batch is a LOT of whiskey flavor. Like, it might taste like a Jack ‘n’ Coke.

It might be something you want to add incrementally (pull 1/100th of the batch and add .04 oz to see what 4 oz will take like). You could still secondary on the oak after you do this test.

I agree with this...... 12 ounces is going to be pushing it as far as too much. You ca always add more..... can’t take it out.

 

[jonny24]

Was gonna say, you should just make some bourbon!

But then.... Holy smokes, a fifth is 750? Whaaaattt?

I've been reading that term for like two years on another forum and never picked that up. I thought it mean a "mickey", which is a 375ml bottle

375ml : Mickey
750ml : 26er (26oz)
1.14L: Forty(40 ozs?)
4 L: Texas Mickey

 

[davidabcd]

Just from experience with RIS, 12 oz of bourbon in a 5 gallon batch is a LOT of whiskey flavor. Like, it might taste like a Jack ‘n’ Coke.

It might be something you want to add incrementally (pull 1/100th of the batch and add .04 oz to see what 4 oz will take like). You could still secondary on the oak after you do this test.

You know, you're probably right but I'm going to dive in and do the kit ingredients in full.
The reviews on the NB site were mostly favorable. And the Dragon's Milk does have a large kick of whiskey to it.
I'm not going to secondary, just my usual three weeks in the primary. After two weeks, I"ll add the oak and yet-to-be-determined whiskey.

 

[GnenieGone]

I've found Maker's Mark a bit harse. I like Ezra Brooks. It's smoother and less expensive.

 

[davidabcd]

Again, I appreciate the input. I went with Buffalo Trace 90 proof. Bonus: cool picture on the front. It smells like whiskey so I'm happy. Looking forward to the final product (barrel-aged whiskey stout).
I don't think you get a deal on whiskey at Costco, at least not in Michigan. But, I was there today, it was time to buy whiskey, it was on the list of suggestions and it didn't cost $50.

.

 

[aprichman]

Again, I appreciate the input. I went with Buffalo Trace 90 proof. Bonus: cool picture on the front. It smells like whiskey so I'm happy. Looking forward to the final product (barrel-aged whiskey stout).
I don't think you get a deal on whiskey at Costco, at least not in Michigan. But, I was there today, it was time to buy whiskey, it was on the list of suggestions and it didn't cost $50. View attachment 583720 .

Buffalo Trace is really good whisky, well done.

 

[davidabcd]

Just from experience with RIS, 12 oz of bourbon in a 5 gallon batch is a LOT of whiskey flavor. Like, it might taste like a Jack ‘n’ Coke.

It might be something you want to add incrementally (pull 1/100th of the batch and add .04 oz to see what 4 oz will take like). You could still secondary on the oak after you do this test.

So I just added the oak spirals (3oz) and the 12oz of whiskey. I didn't realize how much whiskey the spirals would absorb. It was covered and then a day later it was 1/2" below so that was a surprise.
That is not a counter to your suggestions which are great; for me, I'll make the recipe as written and then go from there. I will let you know if you get an, "I told you so," when it's ready to drink.
Cheers

 

[bracconiere]

why would you use whiskey to age on oak? it's already been aged on oak, wouldn't vodka be more practical?

sorry if that was said....

 

[davidabcd]

why would you use whiskey to age on oak? it's already been aged on oak, wouldn't vodka be more practical?

sorry if that was said....

I don't think it was asked, at least, that I saw. The recipe is for a Dragon's Milk clone, a whiskey stout. Actually if you Google, "Dragon's Silk" (well-done clone name) by Northern Brewer, you could look at the recipe.I'm just following the directions this first time which say soak 3oz of medium toast oak (something like that) in 12oz of whiskey for a day. So the whiskey isn't being aged; I think it's more for the oak's benefit. I'll be bottling this pretty soon...but then it's going to have to sit.
Edit: Ratebeer probably has a good description of it, if you aren't already familiar with the site.
I've had it and, well, it prompted me to try and clone it.

 

[ong]

So I just added the oak spirals (3oz) and the 12oz of whiskey. I didn't realize how much whiskey the spirals would absorb. It was covered and then a day later it was 1/2" below so that was a surprise.
That is not a counter to your suggestions which are great; for me, I'll make the recipe as written and then go from there. I will let you know if you get an, "I told you so," when it's ready to drink.
Cheers

Hope it comes out to your liking! I suspect it will be quite awhile before it mellows a bit and gets a more rounded flavor (I’m just now liking some of the RIS I bottled in early 2016).

 

[davidabcd]

Hope it comes out to your liking! I suspect it will be quite awhile before it mellows a bit and gets a more rounded flavor (I’m just now liking some of the RIS I bottled in early 2016).

Though necessary, that's crazy looong! I was going to wait about three months (not counting atest beer or three earlier), see where it stands. I do have something to drink in the meantime. Well done on the patience.
I have had some experience with the improvement available by waiting. It was a quad in fact. It was at three or four months old when I said, "Oh, this is pretty darn good!" They were drinkable prior to that and so I did.
Before the oak/whiskey addition, it smelled as expected. How many RIS do you have left?
Thanks.

 

[Soulshine2]

Im partial to Jack Daniel's , BUT Instead of adding actual bourbon or whiskey to your stout , why not rest it in Jack Daniel's oak barrel wood (smoking) chips . It'll give a nice oaky flavor with the hint of whiskey/bourbon without taking away from your brew. Just a thought

 

[Desert_Sky]

Ive always used Makers. Cheap enough to where its a non issue, good enough to sip on a nice glass w/ ice for the next day or two.

And I always soaked vanilla beans in the whisky too

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’ve used many different ones. 4 Roses, Makers, Beam Black, Early Times, and Jack. I think the smoother the better. Early Times has been my favorite for my stout.
I use 14oz per 5 gallons.

 

[ong]

Though necessary, that's crazy looong! I was going to wait about three months (not counting atest beer or three earlier), see where it stands. I do have something to drink in the meantime. Well done on the patience.
I have had some experience with the improvement available by waiting. It was a quad in fact. It was at three or four months old when I said, "Oh, this is pretty darn good!" They were drinkable prior to that and so I did.
Before the oak/whiskey addition, it smelled as expected. How many RIS do you have left?
Thanks.

I bottled a ten gallon batch, so quite a bit is left. It was in a bourbon barrel for a few months, then I split the batch into thirds. A third I bottled straight, a third with some espresso, and a third with a 750ml bottle of raspberry wine I had made in 2014. The wine is probably my favorite variant. Between the 13% stout, the bourbon, and the wine, it’s got a lot going on, but it works.

 

[Soulshine2]

ok , lets go over the whole oak barrel aging thing . In whiskey anyway ,then I'll get to my point and hopefully it will help you in your beer aging ....and I may try this sometime too. Like I said , my wife and I are partial to Jack Daniel's , we've been on their tour like 4 or 5 times now ,we could probably give the tour by now. we've absorbed so much information on their process. Whiskey is white or clear before it goes into the barrel, the barrel is raised with white oak staves and then toasted or charred depending on the blend going inside. For the Sinatra Select the staves are grooved before raising so the charring goes deeper into the wood and more surface area contacts the whiskey, therefore more flavor . The whiskey is aged in these barrels for a minimum of 4 years ,while the seasons change the wood "breathes" expands and contracts letting the whiskey into or pushed out of its fibers. This exchanges the natural sugars and tannins within the wood ,giving it flavor and the color. Meanwhile they're sampled and checked up to and beyond its maturation day . Some need more because wood grains and densities differ .They also have another product that once the finished aged whiskey leaves the oak barrel , they put it in a toasted sugar maple barrel and age it some more, giving it an almost butterscotchy and vanilla flavors that is just outstanding, keep that in mind. Their barrels are only used once then they go off to other distilleries ,wineries and now coming to my point, breweries to age beer. While its aging ,the wood and (beer) exchange within the wood fibers ,blending and mellowing ,giving us the flavors we're after. So, while you could find some oak in a lumberyard and soak it in whiskey it needs to be the right oak , normally the oak in lumberyards is red oak and tannins are too high. its not exactly the same as 4 yr aged whiskey been in the barrel .

 

[davidabcd]

I bottled a ten gallon batch, so quite a bit is left. It was in a bourbon barrel for a few months, then I split the batch into thirds. A third I bottled straight, a third with some espresso, and a third with a 750ml bottle of raspberry wine I had made in 2014. The wine is probably my favorite variant. Between the 13% stout, the bourbon, and the wine, it’s got a lot going on, but it works.

Those sound really good. Thirteen percent? Yowza! I haven't taken a gravity reading even though I opened the fermenter to add the whiskey and spirals. I'll do that soon enough. The fermentation appeared to go normally, so I'm not concerned in the least. I expect to get 11% or a bit more so that's cool.

So you used a real bourbon barrel? Had one lying around, did you? That is awesome. We are clearly at different ends of the brewing spectrum. I'm happy grabbing recipes (extract w/grain) from a magazine or borrow the directions from a kit-making website. It is so unlikely that I'll ever be that authentic, however you want to put it, but I won't say "never."
Thanks for the info.

 

[davidabcd]

Im partial to Jack Daniel's , BUT Instead of adding actual bourbon or whiskey to your stout , why not rest it in Jack Daniel's oak barrel wood (smoking) chips . It'll give a nice oaky flavor with the hint of whiskey/bourbon without taking away from your brew. Just a thought

I'm just following a recipe I borrowed from NB Dragon's Silk kit which seems in line with my tasting experience. There was more than a hint of whiskey in the original but a very good combination overall.
I'll see what happens and go from there.
Cheers

 

[ong]

Those sound really good. Thirteen percent? Yowza! I haven't taken a gravity reading even though I opened the fermenter to add the whiskey and spirals. I'll do that soon enough. The fermentation appeared to go normally, so I'm not concerned in the least. I expect to get 11% or a bit more so that's cool.

So you used a real bourbon barrel? Had one lying around, did you? That is awesome. We are clearly at different ends of the brewing spectrum. I'm happy grabbing recipes (extract w/grain) from a magazine or borrow the directions from a kit-making website. It is so unlikely that I'll ever be that authentic, however you want to put it, but I won't say "never."
Thanks for the info.

A now ex-girlfriend bought me a 10-gallon barrel for Xmas, so I had to come up with something to do with it! So far it’s had the imperial stout, which was massively bourbon flavored, a brown ale which still had a ton of bourbon, then a home-pressed cider which came out really nicely — but it was starting to pick up some funk, so I dedicated the barrel to sours after that. I aged a dark cherry sour for about a year, and now I’m running a golden sour solera, pulling out a few gallons to package and replacing them with clean beer as I go. I think projects like this really help me grow as a brewer... forcing me to think creatively and brew something I might not otherwise be inclined to.

 

[davidabcd]

A now ex-girlfriend bought me a 10-gallon barrel for Xmas, so I had to come up with something to do with it! So far it’s had the imperial stout, which was massively bourbon flavored, a brown ale which still had a ton of bourbon, then a home-pressed cider which came out really nicely — but it was starting to pick up some funk, so I dedicated the barrel to sours after that. I aged a dark cherry sour for about a year, and now I’m running a golden sour solera, pulling out a few gallons to package and replacing them with clean beer as I go. I think projects like this really help me grow as a brewer... forcing me to think creatively and brew something I might not otherwise be inclined to.

That is pretty involved. It sounds like you're getting some outstanding products.

My deal is, at the moment, making beer I really like: Tripels and Quadrupels, the stout we've been discussing and there's a "Gale's Prize Old Ale" that I'm going to make again.
I've not done a wide range but I've made a Kolsch which was way better than expected, even had the fruity notes. Not bad for an extract. I am really over IPAs. I made five or six, all were quite good but if I never see another DIPA, I'm okay with that. I've done some wheat beers and even a mango/raspberry wheat with actual fruit. The smell was perfect but it needed to be back-sweetened, technically.

I've never had a sour beer. Are there any well done ones on the shelf at Kroger, for example? If not, we do also have some amazing beer stores nearby, two of them at least. I'll ask one of the guys there to recommend a god sour beer.
Can your barrel ever be back to its original state or somewhat back to its original state?

 

[ong]

Once the barrel is “sour” it’s never going to be clean again. I think the most one can hope for is maybe four clean batches before there’s some funk going on. It’s a fun project, anyway.

One of the most approachable sours I’ve tried is the Dogfish Head SeaQuench — it’s really tasty, with lime zest and sea salt. But I’m sure you can find a pretty broad range at bottle shops.

 

[Soulshine2]

Once the barrel is “sour” it’s never going to be clean again. I think the most one can hope for is maybe four clean batches before there’s some funk going on. It’s a fun project, anyway.

One of the most approachable sours I’ve tried is the Dogfish Head SeaQuench — it’s really tasty, with lime zest and sea salt. But I’m sure you can find a pretty broad range at bottle shops.

this is why JD only uses barrels once. To keep control of flavors. Once the barrel is used for something other than the initial intention, its hard to predict what the consecutive batches that come in contact will do. I can see the outcome aging beer or another spirit in a once used (lets call it a "seasoned" )whiskey barrel (red wine into a whiskey barrel comes out like a sherry ), after that I think the outcome is a crapshoot.

 

[ong]

this is why JD only uses barrels once. To keep control of flavors. Once the barrel is used for something other than the initial intention, its hard to predict what the consecutive batches that come in contact will do. I can see the outcome aging beer or another spirit in a once used (lets call it a "seasoned" )whiskey barrel (red wine into a whiskey barrel comes out like a sherry ), after that I think the outcome is a crapshoot.

Yes, I would agree with this. The upside is that such a crapshoot makes sense for homebrewers, even if it would be a bad idea at the commercial scale. Of the five beers I’ve had in my barrel, only one, the brown ale, has been subpar (just far too much bourbon flavor for my taste).

 

[Dirkdougler]

Cheap and good. Evan Williams is nice. Has a little bit of that bold Wild Turkey taste at a lower price point

 

[davidabcd]

Cheap and good. Evan Williams is nice. Has a little bit of that bold Wild Turkey taste at a lower price point

that's not eastpointe, michigan is it?

 

[bkboiler]

one more vote for makers mark. done a few diff styles with that and it’s worked well for porter and stout options

 

[Dirkdougler]

that's not eastpointe, michigan is it?

It is. You know it?

Just checked your location. We should do a brew day sometime lol

 

[davidabcd]

Just from experience with RIS, 12 oz of bourbon in a 5 gallon batch is a LOT of whiskey flavor. Like, it might taste like a Jack ‘n’ Coke.

It might be something you want to add incrementally (pull 1/100th of the batch and add .04 oz to see what 4 oz will take like). You could still secondary on the oak after you do this test.

Trying the(bourbon barrel stout) Dragon's Milk clone in about 30 minutes. I'm really excited and time has seemed to stop. I'm not expecting much carbonation yet, being only two weeks, but I do want to see that it has at least started. 70F for conditioning. I'm hoping "Jack and Coke" isn't how I describe it but I'll drink it all even if it is. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
It's been my most expensive beer to make because of the whiskey purchase, oak spirals and large amount of LME.

 

[davidabcd]

Hope it comes out to your liking! I suspect it will be quite awhile before it mellows a bit and gets a more rounded flavor (I’m just now liking some of the RIS I bottled in early 2016).

Alright, so I drank one. It actually went down quickly. Maybe shouldn't have drank it while I was actually thirsty. It's well over 10%, possibly even a bit over 11% and after sipping and evaluating the first half, I drank the second half (flip-top, 16oz bottle user) almost like it was a Gatorade and I had just finished a 10K run...in the summer.
So, it does need more time, obviously, but it's not bad; in fact, if it were carbed fully for a stout, I could live with it as is.
I really tried to notice the whiskey/stout ratio because of your mentioning it and others agreeing with that and it's basically what I thought it might be. It is early so it's hard to tell.
It would be useful if you've had a bottle of Dragon Stout, a Michigan beer. I'm guessing they ship to other states but I don't know where.
Anyway, I won't lie: there's no doubt that there is whiskey in this beer. I think it will balance once the beer is finished conditioning--especially when "months" and not "weeks" are the key.
I'm extremely easy to please with an ale, especially if someone has made it.
Great learning experience on this one. Prior to home brewing, I wouldn't even look at a stout as an option except for a black and tan and I'm not even sure if the "black" is a stout!

 

[Dirkdougler]

Alright, so I drank one. It actually went down quickly. Maybe shouldn't have drank it while I was actually thirsty. It's well over 10%, possibly even a bit over 11% and after sipping and evaluating the first half, I drank the second half (flip-top, 16oz bottle user) almost like it was a Gatorade and I had just finished a 10K run...in the summer.
So, it does need more time, obviously, but it's not bad; in fact, if it were carbed fully for a stout, I could live with it as is.
I really tried to notice the whiskey/stout ratio because of your mentioning it and others agreeing with that and it's basically what I thought it might be. It is early so it's hard to tell.
It would be useful if you've had a bottle of Dragon Stout, a Michigan beer. I'm guessing they ship to other states but I don't know where.
Anyway, I won't lie: there's no doubt that there is whiskey in this beer. I think it will balance once the beer is finished conditioning--especially when "months" and not "weeks" are the key.
I'm extremely easy to please with an ale, especially if someone has made it.
Great learning experience on this one. Prior to home brewing, I wouldn't even look at a stout as an option except for a black and tan and I'm not even sure if the "black" is a stout!

You kind of inspired me to possibly bourbon up my oatmeal stout I have had aging in my carboy since July 9.

I actually bought barrel staves. Haven't settled on going with a lighter brown ale kind of style to use them on, or risking my stout. I planned to keg it in November.

I might squeeze out a few manly tears if I tried it and got it wrong. I have been looking forward to it.

Ahhh decisions... I love this hobby lol

 

[toddo97]

You kind of inspired me to possibly bourbon up my oatmeal stout I have had aging in my carboy since July 9.

I actually bought barrel staves. Haven't settled on going with a lighter brown ale kind of style to use them on, or risking my stout. I planned to keg it in November.

I might squeeze out a few manly tears if I tried it and got it wrong. I have been looking forward to it.

Ahhh decisions... I love this hobby lol

At bottling, you could try to bourbon a gallon or so of it so you're not all in case you mess it up

 

[cegan09]

this is why JD only uses barrels once. To keep control of flavors. Once the barrel is used for something other than the initial intention, its hard to predict what the consecutive batches that come in contact will do. I can see the outcome aging beer or another spirit in a once used (lets call it a "seasoned" )whiskey barrel (red wine into a whiskey barrel comes out like a sherry ), after that I think the outcome is a crapshoot.

That's not quite true. While Jack labels their product as Tennessee whiskey, they technically follow the rules for bourbon (with the addition of the charcoal filtering). One of the rules for bourbon is that you must age it in a NEW oak barrel. So every batch of bourbon needs to go into a new barrel. If you use a used barrel, it's still whiskey, but it isn't bourbon. That's why there is such a huge market for bourbon barrels, they can't use them again. So they get sent off to other whiskey makers who aren't limited in their barrel choice (scotch is the biggest market), and brewers who want to barrel age. You can get repeatable results with used barrels, and the results can be a lot more friendly as well. michter's us1 american whiskey is an example of a whiskey aged in used barrels that is fantastic. Smoother, sweeter, less harsh, excellent.


To address the person asking why you soak in whiskey not vodka, you're trying to mimic aging the beer in a barrel. Brewers cannot add liquor to their product, so if they want that flavor they have to get creative. When whiskey ages in a barrel the barrel soaks up some of the product in the wood. Then you fill with beer and the wood will trade some of the whiskey for beer, adding that flavor. So you pre-soak the oak pieces in whiskey to mimic this and allow you to add whiskey and oak flavor at the same time during aging. You could use any number of liquors to get the flavor you want. Port soaked oak is also fantastic in a stout.

Don't get hung up on the amount of whiskey to soak the oak in. Basic rule is just cover them in whatever container you have and let it sit for a while. Add the cubes/spirals/chips whatever you used, and then after it's aged on the oak a while taste and decide if you need to add more of the liquor to get the flavor you want.

 

[davidabcd]

You kind of inspired me to possibly bourbon up my oatmeal stout I have had aging in my carboy since July 9.

I actually bought barrel staves. Haven't settled on going with a lighter brown ale kind of style to use them on, or risking my stout. I planned to keg it in November.

I might squeeze out a few manly tears if I tried it and got it wrong. I have been looking forward to it.

Ahhh decisions... I love this hobby lol

Cool! I saw a post after yours suggesting caution. It seems like a good way to go. I threw caution out the window and possibly just got lucky.

 

[Soulshine2]

That's not quite true. While Jack labels their product as Tennessee whiskey, they technically follow the rules for bourbon (with the addition of the charcoal filtering). One of the rules for bourbon is that you must age it in a NEW oak barrel. So every batch of bourbon needs to go into a new barrel. If you use a used barrel, it's still whiskey, but it isn't bourbon. That's why there is such a huge market for bourbon barrels, they can't use them again. So they get sent off to other whiskey makers who aren't limited in their barrel choice (scotch is the biggest market), and brewers who want to barrel age. You can get repeatable results with used barrels, and the results can be a lot more friendly as well. michter's us1 american whiskey is an example of a whiskey aged in used barrels that is fantastic. Smoother, sweeter, less harsh, excellent.


To address the person asking why you soak in whiskey not vodka, you're trying to mimic aging the beer in a barrel. Brewers cannot add liquor to their product, so if they want that flavor they have to get creative. When whiskey ages in a barrel the barrel soaks up some of the product in the wood. Then you fill with beer and the wood will trade some of the whiskey for beer, adding that flavor. So you pre-soak the oak pieces in whiskey to mimic this and allow you to add whiskey and oak flavor at the same time during aging. You could use any number of liquors to get the flavor you want. Port soaked oak is also fantastic in a stout.

Don't get hung up on the amount of whiskey to soak the oak in. Basic rule is just cover them in whatever container you have and let it sit for a while. Add the cubes/spirals/chips whatever you used, and then after it's aged on the oak a while taste and decide if you need to add more of the liquor to get the flavor you want.

Yes, you're right about the barrels single use, I already mentioned that, also mentioned the JD oak barrel chips- already charred, whiskey aged and in a size perfect for relatively fast imparting of flavors. But actually it is a Tennessee sour mash ,meaning the mash is partially used in the next or consecutive mash ...much like a sourdough starter. yes the difference is the charcoal mellowing that sets it apart from a "bourbon" .Bourbon "technically" can only come from Bourbon County ...Kentucky. And the barrel time is a minimum of 3 yrs . after that it is the distillers choice as to if any more time is needed before bottling...or re-barreled into charred sugar maple barrels for an additional 2 yrs for their (JD's)other brand, 72 (basically its Old #7 twice mellowed).

 

[Soulshine2]

the

Alright, so I drank one. It actually went down quickly. Maybe shouldn't have drank it while I was actually thirsty. It's well over 10%, possibly even a bit over 11% and after sipping and evaluating the first half, I drank the second half (flip-top, 16oz bottle user) almost like it was a Gatorade and I had just finished a 10K run...in the summer.
So, it does need more time, obviously, but it's not bad; in fact, if it were carbed fully for a stout, I could live with it as is.
I really tried to notice the whiskey/stout ratio because of your mentioning it and others agreeing with that and it's basically what I thought it might be. It is early so it's hard to tell.
It would be useful if you've had a bottle of Dragon Stout, a Michigan beer. I'm guessing they ship to other states but I don't know where.
Anyway, I won't lie: there's no doubt that there is whiskey in this beer. I think it will balance once the beer is finished conditioning--especially when "months" and not "weeks" are the key.
I'm extremely easy to please with an ale, especially if someone has made it.
Great learning experience on this one. Prior to home brewing, I wouldn't even look at a stout as an option except for a black and tan and I'm not even sure if the "black" is a stout!

the black could be a porter ,the tan ,any pale ale or even an english "bitter".

 

[cegan09]

Yes, you're right about the barrels single use, I already mentioned that, also mentioned the JD oak barrel chips- already charred, whiskey aged and in a size perfect for relatively fast imparting of flavors. But actually it is a Tennessee sour mash ,meaning the mash is partially used in the next or consecutive mash ...much like a sourdough starter. yes the difference is the charcoal mellowing that sets it apart from a "bourbon" .Bourbon "technically" can only come from Bourbon County ...Kentucky. And the barrel time is a minimum of 3 yrs . after that it is the distillers choice as to if any more time is needed before bottling...or re-barreled into charred sugar maple barrels for an additional 2 yrs for their (JD's)other brand, 72 (basically its Old #7 twice mellowed).

Again, not quite. Bourbon does not have geolocation requirements other than it must be made in the United States. You can make bourbon anywhere in the country. The other requirements are that it has to be 51% or more corn in the mash, It can't be distilled to higher than 160proof, and it can't enter a barrel at more than 125 proof. It can't be sold at less than 80 proof. It must be aged in new barrels, but there is no min time. You can technically age it for 15 minutes and it will count. 3 years is just an agreed time period that creates good bourbon and most distilleries use it as a guideline for their products. JD technically meets all those requirements, so their product is a bourbon, but they sell it as a Tennessee whiskey to distinguish themselves from the market and use their extra processes to justify it. There wasn't a legal definition of "Tennessee whiskey" until a couple years ago, it was just marketing before that.


Chips are actually the worst thing to age on. They impart a more singular dimension oak character and they do it very fast. Cubes are better, you get more control and a better more complex flavor addition, and spirals are better still.

 

[Soulshine2]

It IS a minimum of 3 yrs. I'm not making this up. The information I gave is straight from the multiple distillery tours Ive had at JD over the last 8 yrs . what other distilleries do ,I wouldn't know.
Yes, your information on the proof numbers are right ,but thats not relevant to the OP question or situation.
OP asked about what he could add to his brew. Hes basically wanting to add whiskey or bourbon directly to his beer (like a shot in a beer?)instead of going a step further ,taking the time and aging it in a barrel and get more of the oak characteristics to the beer along with the spirit and of course slightly elevated alcohol content (from whats referred to as the "devils cut" ,yet not as direct as adding a spirit . I think it would be a much better end product given the time.
I was merely explaining why the barrels are used once and then sold to other places to do what I was and still am suggesting the barrel wood chips. They are small and can impart their contributions quickly . They have the combination of the oak, char and spirit flavors in a cheap($3 bag), compact easy to use form. How cubes and spirals are any better, i don't understand. Same thing , different size . Yes, he could pour it into a jar and put a whiskey soaked chunk of oak in it for 15 minutes,but will that do what 3 yrs in a charred barrel thats been subjected to 3 yrs worth of seasonal temperature fluctuations (wood fiber open and close as it is warmed or cooled ,basically "breathing" besides giving off the "angels share" ,trading the sugars, tannins and aromas within the oak fibers with the liquid inside it giving it the caramel color, vanilla ,peppery and spicy notes and flavors )will do ? Maybe, but I doubt it .
Some things just cant be rushed.
When you make chicken soup do you drag the chicken and vegetables through hot water for 15 minutes. No you cut it up and simmer it . Smaller parts ,let it meld together.
Time and patience.

 

[cegan09]

The comment about chips vs other forms comes from many many people trying them in their beers. Chips are thin and have a much larger surface area compared to other forms. This means they impact flavor on the beer very quickly and often single dimensionally. It's very easy to over oak with chips because of this increased surface area vs volume of the oak. And it's very hard to fix a beer that's been over oaked.

With larger cubes and spirals you get a more complex flavor because there is less surface area vs volume and there are different layers of wood. The surface is charred, but the inside is fresh wood, just like a barrel. Compared to the chips which are more uniform throughout.

Best practice with any of them is to soak them in your preferred alcohol for anywhere from a week to months before adding to the beer. Doing so allows the liquor to react with the wood, soak in, extract flavor, etc. Then you throw them in beer and the beer gets to soak in and out of the oak like a barrel. Again, with chips you lose some complexity because there isn't much depth for the beer to extract from. This isn't just speculation, most people who play with oak aging agree that cubes and spirals make for a better beer compared to chips.

Myself I've been playing with oak aging in bottles. Meaning throwing a whiskey soaked oak cube into each bottle and leaving it. First experiment was with a barelywine using half a cube per 16oz bottle. It works shockingly well. A year on and the impact is lovely. It's not overpowering, just enough to differentiate it from the plain version. I'm going to try it again with a big stout and ramp up to a full cube per bottle.


as for my comments on JD, I was simply laying out the legal definitions for bourbon (which JD technically is), which as no min aging time. As I said, each distillery has it's own min time that they decide on for producing their product. Clearly JD picked 3 years.

 

[cegan09]

One other point. There is a difference between wanting whiskey flavor and wanting oak flavor. I know people who loathe oak flavor in beers, but like beers with a heavy whiskey taste. And I know those that are the opposite. I've had commercial beers that were heavy on oak with little to no liquor influence (barrels that were on their 3rd or more use so the liquor was washed out by then), and others that were first refill whiskey barrels and were super heavy on whiskey flavor. How you get these flavors in home brewing can be done multiple ways.

If all you care about is flavor from the liquor, then just add some of that right to the beer. Add a little at a time until it's where you want it. My example here is port into a big heavy stout. Works super well.

If you care more about barrel characteristics then you pick your preferred oak format (chips, cubes, spirals, etc) and prepare how you wish. Soak them in nothing if you just want wood characteristics. Soak in your favorite liquor if you're looking for barrel finish mimicking.

No one's singular preference is the right way. It's right for them, but not everyone. Play with it until you find what you like.

 

[madscientist451]

The comment about chips vs other forms comes from many many people trying them in their beers. Chips are thin and have a much larger surface area compared to other forms. This means they impact flavor on the beer very quickly and often single dimensionally. It's very easy to over oak with chips because of this increased surface area vs volume of the oak. And it's very hard to fix a beer that's been over oaked.

With larger cubes and spirals you get a more complex flavor because there is less surface area vs volume and there are different layers of wood. The surface is charred, but the inside is fresh wood, just like a barrel. Compared to the chips which are more uniform throughout.

Comparing Jack Daniels barrel chips, which are sold as a grilling/smoking product, to toasted oak cubes is like comparing apples to oranges.
Oak cubes are (usually) new and haven't been exposed to whiskey in a barrel. More Beer sells a product that they describe as chunks of used oak barrels, but they aren't perfect cubes. There are a bunch of other products, like spirals, staves with holes drilled and others available as well. Of course the flavor is going to be different. But if you are trying to make a clone of a beer that is aged in used oak whiskey barrels, using new oak isn't going to produce the flavor you are trying to achieve.
I use the Jack Daniels chips in cider and beer. I pick out the biggest pieces and soak them in Woodford reserve Bourbon. The smaller pieces are used to smoke ribs.
I'm not a Bourbon expert, Woodford reserve was just what was recommended at the store as being "very oaky".
Over-oaking can be a problem. So I always reserve a portion of un-oaked cider or beer in case I need to so some blending. If I want more bourbon presence, I add more bourbon to taste when bottling.
I DO use new oak products like cubes and spirals when I'm looking for the flavors those products provide.
Adding spirits to beer/cider/wine is one advantage home brewers have over commercial producers. You can dial in the flavor you are looking for by adding different amounts.