I have my water report. Now what?

[sictransit701]

Just got my water report. I have a recipe. Ive never measured or manipulated mash ph. I want to do that this time. I’ve got a ph meter, acid, gypsum, calcium chloride, epsom… Just don’t know how to proceed. I’ve looked at brun water online. It seems complicated. I tried it last night. I was under the impression that after entering my water report and grain bill, it would help me with mineral and acid additions. I did not see that. Maybe I didn’t do it right. I entered what data I have into BeerSmith. It said 241 ml of phosphoric acid 10% to the mash. That’s like 8 oz. Is that right? My water report was pretty bare. Please help. Is there an easier way for my first time adjusting water? Water report image added. Recipe I want to do is a hazy ipa. 10 gallons. 26lbs pale, 4 lbs oats, 2 lbs Carafoam.

 

[mac_1103]

I’ve looked at brun water online. It seems complicated. I tried it last night. I was under the impression that after entering my water report and grain bill, it would help me with mineral and acid additions. I did not see that.

It doesn't do the salt additions for you but it isn't really all that complicated. After you enter your water report and grain bill, pick a target profile for the style of beer you're making and then start adding salts to try to match that profile. A bit of trial and error with different amounts and combinations will get you close. Then add acid to get to the right mash pH for the style. If you're using a lot of dark malts, you might have to add base (pickling lime or bicarbonate) instead of acid.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

My water report was pretty bare.

I'm seeing higher than typical Na.

 

[day_trippr]

Water softener output perhaps?

 

[sictransit701]

It doesn't do the salt additions for you but it isn't really all that complicated. After you enter your water report and grain bill, pick a target profile for the style of beer you're making and then start adding salts to try to match that profile. A bit of trial and error with different amounts and combinations will get you close. Then add acid to get to the right mash pH for the style. If you're using a lot of dark malts, you might have to add base (pickling lime or bicarbonate) instead of acid.

How much acid is typical to add to the mash. BeerSmith is saying 240 ml phosphoric acid 10% to the mash. That’s about 8 oz. Is that accurate? I’ll need to get another bottle.

 

[mac_1103]

Not sure about your system, but Bru'nWater is saying you'd need 10 mL per gallon for full volume BIAB to get to pH 5.35 with that grain bill and salt additions to approximate the pale ale profile. So yeah, you need a ton of acid if your acid is that dilute. I would get some 88% lactic acid if I were you. You'd only need to use about a tenth as much volume.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

That is a totally weird water report with Na very high and Ca, Sulphate, and Cl very low. Looks very bad for brewing. I use Brewfather and that has a very good water treatment system. You pick what type you’re making and select the water required with values for the 6 elements. Then put in your water and it will calculate the salt additions, and acid to reduce alkalinity and pH.

 

[mac_1103]

That is a totally weird water report...

So yeah,

Water softener output perhaps?

and if so, how's the input?

 

[sictransit701]

So yeah,

and if so, how's the input?

Would I be better off using bottled water? Spring water?

 

[mac_1103]

Distilled or DI water certainly makes things easier - blank slate and all that. Spring water can be good if you know what minerals are in it. Depends on availability and cost where you are I guess.

 

[sictransit701]

Distilled or DI water certainly makes things easier - blank slate and all that. Spring water can be good if you know what minerals are in it. Depends on availability and cost where you are I guess.

If I use distilled water. Would all my mineral values be 0 for entering in brun water? Ph? I could measure. Bicarbonate? 0? Also, is there chlorine or chloramine in distilled water? Would it hurt to add a camp den tab?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Would I be better off using bottled water? Spring water?

I used to think I had really great water (for brewing very dark beer), but then last summer, we had a ridiculous amount of rain here, that I'm convinced diluted the carbonate significantly, and I ended up with 2 sour-ish beers in a row. This was right at the time I learned that our tap water also had elevated PFAs, so I went with all reverse-osmosis-filtered water from the grocery store. Now I no longer need to use phosphoric acid, but my big stouts definitely need a couple grams of baking soda.

So RO water should definitely give you more consistent results.

edit: You will need to get some Calcium Chloride pellets, and some Gypsum for sure, along with a scale that can measure in grams (tenths of grams even better). I don't think Epsom Salts are ever needed for beer.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

If I use distilled water. Would all my mineral values be 0 for entering in brun water? Ph? I could measure. Bicarbonate? 0? Also, is there chlorine or chloramine in distilled water? Would it hurt to add a camp den tab?

Yes, all zero. Likewise for reverse-osmosis filtered water: not quite zero, but close enough to treat as zero. No chlorine or chloramine in distilled. Shouldn't be any in RO water either. Not sure about any harm from campden/metabisulfite, but I don't use it any more, now that I use RO water from the grocery store (the machine has a sticker outlining all the stuff that gets removed and sterilized).

 

[sictransit701]

Ok. Thanks man. Looks like I’ll go the ro route.

 

[mac_1103]

Ph? I could measure.

Don't bother trying to measure the pH of distilled or RO water. It's almost impossible to do so accurately and it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Ok. Thanks man. Looks like I’ll go the ro route.

I've mentioned this elsewhere on this site, if you can't or don't want to install an RO system in your home, check with your local Culligan Water company, (if you're in the US and you have one nearby). Mine offers RO water at 25 cents per gallon if you prepay $125 for 500 gallons. It's 30 cents per gallon if you prepay $75 for 250 gallons.

 

[sictransit701]

It doesn't do the salt additions for you but it isn't really all that complicated. After you enter your water report and grain bill, pick a target profile for the style of beer you're making and then start adding salts to try to match that profile. A bit of trial and error with different amounts and combinations will get you close. Then add acid to get to the right mash pH for the style. If you're using a lot of dark malts, you might have to add base (pickling lime or bicarbonate) instead of acid.

 

[sictransit701]

Ok. I see where I can play around with the salt additions, but how do I adjust ph? It’s not showing a ph change no matter how much acid I enter in.

 

[sictransit701]

Don't bother trying to measure the pH of distilled or RO water. It's almost impossible to do so accurately and it doesn't matter anyway.

So, enter it as 7 in the calculator? I am so confused with brun water. It is not adjusting ph when I enter different acid amounts.

 

[mac_1103]

So, enter it as 7 in the calculator? I am so confused with brun water. It is not adjusting ph when I enter different acid amounts.

Starting water pH is irrelevant for calculating mash pH so don't enter anything. Here's a couple of screenshots - 1 mL 10% phosphoric acid per gallon gives pH = 5.79; with 10 mL per gallon pH = 5.35. Numbers may not be legible but you can see the estimated mash pH cell change from red to green.

 

[sictransit701]

Don't bother trying to measure the pH of distilled or RO water. It's almost impossible to do so accurately and it doesn't matter anyway.

Starting water pH is irrelevant for calculating mash pH so don't enter anything. Here's a couple of screenshots - 1 mL 10% phosphoric acid per gallon gives pH = 5.79; with 10 mL per gallon pH = 5.35. Numbers may not be legible but you can see the estimated mash pH cell change from red to green.
View attachment 869919

Mine is not changing color or number.

 

[mac_1103]

Are you entering your acid addition on the water adjustment page shown in my screenshots? Have you selected the correct acid type and percentage?

It’s not showing a ph change no matter how much acid I enter in.

It's going to take a lot of 10% phosphoric acid to move the needle with that grain bill and starting water. Have you tried adding something ridiculous like 100 mL per gallon?

 

[sictransit701]

Are you entering your acid addition on the water adjustment page shown in my screenshots? Have you selected the correct acid type and percentage?

It's going to take a lot of 10% phosphoric acid to move the needle with that grain bill and starting water. Have you tried adding something ridiculous like 100 mL per gallon?

Yes. I’ve added 1000 ml/gal of phosphoric acid at 10%. No change.

 

[mac_1103]

Sorry. I don't know what else to say. The screenshots I posted used your water report and grain bill.

 

[sictransit701]

Are you entering your acid addition on the water adjustment page shown in my screenshots? Have you selected the correct acid type and percentage?

It's going to take a lot of 10% phosphoric acid to move the needle with that grain bill and starting water. Have you tried adding something ridiculous like 100 mL per gallon?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Have you tried Brewer's Friend software? It's free, and does water calculations very easily. (Only tricky thing is, you need to save the recipe as a non-extract brew, leave the editor, come back in, and then adding brewing salts / changing your grist just auto-magically adjusts everything for you, including a good pH prediction).

I've since tried to use BrunWater spreadsheet, and hated it, compared to Brewer's Friend.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

For Bru'n Water, you need to enable iterative calculations in Excel (that will get rid of those arrows on the screen and enable updates). It is under File > Options (way down in the lower left) > Formulas.

These days, I find that BeerSmith is pretty good with pH calculations (it used to be off a few years ago), so I just use BeerSmith for my pH and mineral adjustments. 240 ml seems like a lot more than you would need. The UI in BeerSmith is a little odd. You have to enter the Unadjusted Mash pH value into the Measured Mash pH field, then it should calculate the needed amount to get you to your Target pH. BeerSmith has 2 pH models. I believe BW is the Bru'n Water model. I found that the MPH model closer matched what I read with my meter, so I use that one.

 

[Bobby_M]

Brewfather does this so seamlessly and it already knows your grain bill. It's the best $23 a year you could spend.