treacheroustexan
Well-Known Member
http://www.beer-simple.com/beer/201...-open-a-brewery-and-maybe-you-shouldnt-either
I couldn't agree with this article more. Thoughts?
I couldn't agree with this article more. Thoughts?
I don't want to open a brewery (and maybe you shouldn't either)
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myerstyson
Well-Known Member
ditto. Too much work. 
A friend of mine, who has been brewing for 20+ years, is going to be the brewmaster of a newly-built craft brewery. I can't recall the capacity but I think it's 15 barrels or 7 barrels or some such. Significantly larger than anything homebrewers generally do.
He's nervous about it. Screw up a batch and you've screwed up $1200-1500 worth of ingredients. Down the drain, literally. I screw up a batch and it's $20 down the drain, more or less.
I've told him it's good he's nervous--if he was cocky, that would be a recipe for disaster. He's been working on recipes and such, and they haven't even broken ground yet, but he gets to be in at the ground floor, specifying equipment and so on.
He's at the point where he has to try this. More power to him.
He's nervous about it. Screw up a batch and you've screwed up $1200-1500 worth of ingredients. Down the drain, literally. I screw up a batch and it's $20 down the drain, more or less.
I've told him it's good he's nervous--if he was cocky, that would be a recipe for disaster. He's been working on recipes and such, and they haven't even broken ground yet, but he gets to be in at the ground floor, specifying equipment and so on.
He's at the point where he has to try this. More power to him.
No desire to deal with all the enormous amount of upfront work and the constant hassle of actually opening a brewery. I live <500ft from one and Im more than chummy with the owners. They just celebrated their first year and I made a point to tell them how much I admired their work and dedication. I saw most of it all first hand from the inception of acquiring the property and starting renovations. No thank you
I am looking into doing gypsy brewing though. I need to reach out with more breweries that are more established in collaborations though. Brands like Evil Twin dont really even need their own equipment and are constantly churning out new beers.
I am looking into doing gypsy brewing though. I need to reach out with more breweries that are more established in collaborations though. Brands like Evil Twin dont really even need their own equipment and are constantly churning out new beers.
TX_Brewing
Well-Known Member
I always tell people I don't want to ruin a hobby I truly enjoy by making it my job.
I find most people understand this sentiment, and yes I will never have a commercial brewery.. And I am good with that.
I find most people understand this sentiment, and yes I will never have a commercial brewery.. And I am good with that.
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
The blog post is pretty on point with what you have to do to open a brewery. If you're interested in opening a brewery and don't know this stuff then I don't think you're really that interested in commercial brewing or you're just starting to do your homework.
Turning a hobby into a full time job is always hard because it stops being as fun once your well-being and livelihood become part of the process.
I do agree with the blog but I will say a lot of people poo-hoo others that want to open a brewery. Not to say that this blogger is doing that but there is a definite "are you sure you want to do this?" vibe to it to the point where I feel like, If someone wants to open a brewery then just root for them instead of trying to tell them how hard it's going to be. There's so many threads I've read about someone feeling out the idea of commercial brewing only to find everyone telling them about all the hurdles. I get everyone is trying to help but sometimes you just have to let people figure it out on their own. Opening your own business is hard no matter what industry you're going into. There are many hats one has to wear and you have to wear them all well!
The blogger is right in saying that nothing a new brewery will do will be really all that new. If you're worried about being your own entity you're already failing. The second you worry about what the competition is doing you've failed. With what I do for a living, which is working for a benchmarking/research firm for mega-projects and conducting research to what makes a project successful and what is detrimental to that success, it's known that you have to worry about your own success, your plan of action, and that alone. The competition is going to do what they want to do and you have to do the same. You can't base what your plan is off of what the other is or isn't doing. There is a difference, however, to challenging your competition and finding a niche market, over worrying about what the competition is doing. There's a fine line... offer a good product at a competitive price and market it well.
With all that said if the opportunity presented itself for me to get paid to brew beer I'd jump on it in a second. Whether that be for a full time job or just a handful of batches a week, I think it would be a great experience and one I'd look back on and not regret. Life is all about living and taking on challenges and feeling alive. So why not?
Turning a hobby into a full time job is always hard because it stops being as fun once your well-being and livelihood become part of the process.
I do agree with the blog but I will say a lot of people poo-hoo others that want to open a brewery. Not to say that this blogger is doing that but there is a definite "are you sure you want to do this?" vibe to it to the point where I feel like, If someone wants to open a brewery then just root for them instead of trying to tell them how hard it's going to be. There's so many threads I've read about someone feeling out the idea of commercial brewing only to find everyone telling them about all the hurdles. I get everyone is trying to help but sometimes you just have to let people figure it out on their own. Opening your own business is hard no matter what industry you're going into. There are many hats one has to wear and you have to wear them all well!
The blogger is right in saying that nothing a new brewery will do will be really all that new. If you're worried about being your own entity you're already failing. The second you worry about what the competition is doing you've failed. With what I do for a living, which is working for a benchmarking/research firm for mega-projects and conducting research to what makes a project successful and what is detrimental to that success, it's known that you have to worry about your own success, your plan of action, and that alone. The competition is going to do what they want to do and you have to do the same. You can't base what your plan is off of what the other is or isn't doing. There is a difference, however, to challenging your competition and finding a niche market, over worrying about what the competition is doing. There's a fine line... offer a good product at a competitive price and market it well.
With all that said if the opportunity presented itself for me to get paid to brew beer I'd jump on it in a second. Whether that be for a full time job or just a handful of batches a week, I think it would be a great experience and one I'd look back on and not regret. Life is all about living and taking on challenges and feeling alive. So why not?
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One other thing about the hobby: when it stops being fun, you can stop the hobby and go do something else. When it's your job and it stops being fun...it's still your job.
If we want to lay off for a month or two or three, we can. If we want to try some weird new thing, we can--and no love lost. If it turns out, fine, if not, we learned something.
Certainly craft brewers with larger setups can do that, but when it has commercial implications, I'd think that for me the allure would be much less.
After a few years of home brewing I think most of us hear that grandiose owning a brewery bubble pop. Like the author from the article, the more you embed yourself with professional brewers, judge competitions and look at the money side of things your perception will change drastically.
my well-being and my livelihood are both directly connecting to my homebrewing. still having fun. face>>floor
This may be the best article on homebrewing vs probrewing I've ever read.
Well, I don't want to work period (I love being mostly retired!) but if I did want to work, it wouldn't be back breaking, low paid, industrial cleaning (AKA "brewing").
It's cool when new brewers assume that we all want to be pro brewers and are so fired up about the hobby, they think they'll be Jim Koch soon.
But anybody who has brewed with pro friends, or seen how it works, or has a degree in business and still wants to brew professionally should have their head examined.
I love my hobbies- making soap, brewing, making wine, fishing, etc. I even have had forum friends offer to buy soap from me but I refuse. I GIVE away lots of soap, but will never take money for it, not even for supplies. Because then it's a job, and not a hobby and I don't want to ever combine the two. If I had to brew on a schedule, or for others, I would quickly grow to hate it I'm sure.
It's cool when new brewers assume that we all want to be pro brewers and are so fired up about the hobby, they think they'll be Jim Koch soon.
But anybody who has brewed with pro friends, or seen how it works, or has a degree in business and still wants to brew professionally should have their head examined.
I love my hobbies- making soap, brewing, making wine, fishing, etc. I even have had forum friends offer to buy soap from me but I refuse. I GIVE away lots of soap, but will never take money for it, not even for supplies. Because then it's a job, and not a hobby and I don't want to ever combine the two. If I had to brew on a schedule, or for others, I would quickly grow to hate it I'm sure.
I had a similar revelation a couple years ago. Saw some podcast by kimmich (?) who said something like why ruin a kick a$$ hobby by making it your job.
That said, I feel like I could probably do it if I really wanted, and sacrificed my family time on top of it all. Sounds better in your mind than the reality would be. However, if you make it big, you could end up with a big buyout and retire early, or sit back and let someone else do the hard work and you can travel and promote. Beats my daily grind by a longshot.
For the younger members who may not have an established career yet though, the concept is certainly attractive.
TD.
That said, I feel like I could probably do it if I really wanted, and sacrificed my family time on top of it all. Sounds better in your mind than the reality would be. However, if you make it big, you could end up with a big buyout and retire early, or sit back and let someone else do the hard work and you can travel and promote. Beats my daily grind by a longshot.
For the younger members who may not have an established career yet though, the concept is certainly attractive.
TD.
OP
OP
treacheroustexan
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't want to work period (I love being mostly retired!) but if I did want to work, it wouldn't be back breaking, low paid, industrial cleaning (AKA "brewing").
It's cool when new brewers assume that we all want to be pro brewers and are so fired up about the hobby, they think they'll be Jim Koch soon.
But anybody who has brewed with pro friends, or seen how it works, or has a degree in business and still wants to brew professionally should have their head examined.
I love my hobbies- making soap, brewing, making wine, fishing, etc. I even have had forum friends offer to buy soap from me but I refuse. I GIVE away lots of soap, but will never take money for it, not even for supplies. Because then it's a job, and not a hobby and I don't want to ever combine the two. If I had to brew on a schedule, or for others, I would quickly grow to hate it I'm sure.
Good post. This pretty much summarizes the whole article!
Obviously i have thought many times about opening a brewery, but I think the same as you. If I had to brew for a living, I wouldn't have any hobbies. Lol.
I love the idea of starting a brewery, but the reality of it really does scare me off. On top of that I already have a good career started (they're even paying for my MBA starting this year). When I look at what a brewer makes, even an owner brewer, it means taking a pay cut. While I would do it for something I truly love, I wouldn't want to do it without a solid business plan.
On the other hand; I went a brewery this weekend, and of the 5 beers I tried, I would say 2 or 3 were good. Their IPA and APA were marginal (coffee porter was a bit thick but nice, the gose was pretty good, the Alt a bit too roasty). I've had other beers from them, and none blew me away. But the brewery has been around for a while and seems to be doing pretty well. They did a good job on marketing and creating ties to the city (which is a big deal for a big city like Houston). I think they will survive despite not making what I would call great beer. Having a relatively small brewery like that on the side would be nice. By on the side I mean it would be something I could invest in and have some creative control over, but not be the head brewer.
On the other hand; I went a brewery this weekend, and of the 5 beers I tried, I would say 2 or 3 were good. Their IPA and APA were marginal (coffee porter was a bit thick but nice, the gose was pretty good, the Alt a bit too roasty). I've had other beers from them, and none blew me away. But the brewery has been around for a while and seems to be doing pretty well. They did a good job on marketing and creating ties to the city (which is a big deal for a big city like Houston). I think they will survive despite not making what I would call great beer. Having a relatively small brewery like that on the side would be nice. By on the side I mean it would be something I could invest in and have some creative control over, but not be the head brewer.
As someone who has made the jump from home brewer to pro brewer I have to agree with the majority of the article. I still enjoy home brewing and brewing on our breweries pilot system (10g batches on the Brew Magic), but I will tell you that brewing on our big system (7bbl) is generally a stressful day. So many things are either automated or at the mercy of a computer talking the brew house that it is not hard for something to go wrong and it be completely out of your control.
With all of that being said I still love my job and getting to brew for a living. There are some very valid points on the business side that I wish ownership would have done, but that's not why they hired me. I brew the beer and do my best to make sure it comes out right every time.
With all of that being said I still love my job and getting to brew for a living. There are some very valid points on the business side that I wish ownership would have done, but that's not why they hired me. I brew the beer and do my best to make sure it comes out right every time.
I have one hobby that went out of control and now I'm in commercial local agriculture. I don't regret it a lick but I won't go another blown out hobby. The most I would do would be a seasonal BOP. That would just be a winter thang down the road.
How long does a typical brew day last on the brew magic? Like in terms of the actual brewing and then plus added cleanup?
The brewery near me recently got one of those for a pilot system and once they do a dry run to make sure its all good, Im gonna start going nuts on it
I've never wanted to open a brewery. Probably more (harder) work for less pay than I currently get. Although I'd be happy to spend a day at a local brewery and then seeing my beer on tap.
I don't think I'd want to brew every day. Once a month has always been enough for me.
I'm also amazed at how many people start homebrewing and then after six months later are planning a brewery. Some do, and their lack of experience shows.
I don't think I'd want to brew every day. Once a month has always been enough for me.
I'm also amazed at how many people start homebrewing and then after six months later are planning a brewery. Some do, and their lack of experience shows.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of really, really, really bad micros out there that I have a feeling originated because of exactly what the author described - a bunch of people tried their fresh beer, liked it, and told them to open a brewery.
It's like how everyone used to want to own a bar; now everyone wants to own a brewery.
Have I thought about it? Heck yes. But at the end of the day, it's not worth it to me. Way too much competition here and there are other hobbies of mine I would rather make a career out of, if that's what my goal was.
It's only a hobby until it becomes a source of income. At that point, it loses a lot of the fun.
It's like how everyone used to want to own a bar; now everyone wants to own a brewery.
Have I thought about it? Heck yes. But at the end of the day, it's not worth it to me. Way too much competition here and there are other hobbies of mine I would rather make a career out of, if that's what my goal was.
It's only a hobby until it becomes a source of income. At that point, it loses a lot of the fun.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
This was my favorite part:
Folks always think pro-brewing is just brewing big batches on big equipment, with the added benefit of being legally allowed to sell it. That part alone is back-breaking work, but then comes the real nightmare.
You're entering a highly-competitive, highly-regulated, capital-intensive industry. If you don't know how to perform (or find and pay the right people to perform) a whole mess a bureaucratic gymnastics, accounting, finance, marketing, legal compliance, etc, you're going to fail no matter how many homebrew competitions you've won.
I honestly wouldn't mind the idea of starting a brewery, but I sure as sh!t wouldn't want to do it on my own. Too much work. And in the end I'd probably rather focus on the business side, and let someone else do all the actual brewing and grunt work... okay so why am I doing this again?
Folks always think pro-brewing is just brewing big batches on big equipment, with the added benefit of being legally allowed to sell it. That part alone is back-breaking work, but then comes the real nightmare.
You're entering a highly-competitive, highly-regulated, capital-intensive industry. If you don't know how to perform (or find and pay the right people to perform) a whole mess a bureaucratic gymnastics, accounting, finance, marketing, legal compliance, etc, you're going to fail no matter how many homebrew competitions you've won.
I honestly wouldn't mind the idea of starting a brewery, but I sure as sh!t wouldn't want to do it on my own. Too much work. And in the end I'd probably rather focus on the business side, and let someone else do all the actual brewing and grunt work... okay so why am I doing this again?
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I think I fall into the "stary eyed new brewer" category. NH makes it so tempting. It's $240/year for a nano licence. (plus taxes). A couple friends and I enjoy daydreaming and talking about doing it. Form an LLC, rent a cheap space (needs to be in a "public" building. aka not your garage), and try to just sell locally. Sell enough to cover costs and keep it tiny. It's a great fantasy, but even I'm smart enough to know it won't work like that.
For now I'm just going to let that fantasy dangle out there as motivation to get better at brewing in general.
Edit:
Honestly I think the best way to get into the brewing business right now is supply. There's been a few articles about malt houses opening and local breweries embracing them with open arms. Everyone wants to make the beer, not everyone sees the many ways you can make money in the overall business.
For now I'm just going to let that fantasy dangle out there as motivation to get better at brewing in general.
Edit:
Honestly I think the best way to get into the brewing business right now is supply. There's been a few articles about malt houses opening and local breweries embracing them with open arms. Everyone wants to make the beer, not everyone sees the many ways you can make money in the overall business.
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
I'd love to open a small brew pub. However, I'd only do it after I retired a multi millionaire and didn't have the stress of making it an actual job! So in other words, I'll never open a brew pub!
I also like how he says his beer isn't good enough, but in his "about the author" section he brags about his world class beer and how a pro Brewer told him his clone was better than the original. And he is a professional consultant to commercial breweries. What?
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
THink its the same dude from yesterday that is suspicious of competitions just being a scam to steal his world class beers?
Too true! For a major reality check do a search here on HBT on Muddy Creek. Read the first 26 pages of that thread. WOW!
Not to mention competing against some of the largest multinational conglomerates in the world that can and don't play by the same rules. I worked in an industry with the same dynamics and all of the little guys were run out of business by the 800 lbs gorillas. They would set up shop and run at a loss until you closed. Then once they were the only game in town they raised the prices through the roof. It happened once in the beer industry and will cycle through again.
Mark
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I've read his entire thread have the utmost respect for him. Gives you an awesome look into what it takes.
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