I am using dry yeast....is there any reason to use a yeast starter?

[1moorepease]

I am only on my second batch so I am still very new to brewing. So I bought a yeast starter kit to try to get the most out of my beer but after reading posts I started to realize that yeast starters seem to mainly be used with liquid yeast. So if I'm not doing a beer with a high alcohol level will a yeast starter help if I'm using dry yeast?


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[CA_Mouse]

Starters are mainly for liquid yeast vials or smack packs. Dry yeast has enough yeast plus the nutrient for a standard 5 gallon batch. Just rehydrate the package in warm water for at least 15 minutes before pitching and you will be fine. If you harvest the yeast from your beer for your next brew, then you would want to do a starter if you let it sit for a month after harvesting.

 

[charliehorse]

You don't *have* to use a starter because of the reasons stated by CA Mouse, however, since you already have to stuff to do it, why wouldn't you. I know that I brewed a 4.5% Kolsch and used a starter on it and my airlock was bubbling away in about 10 minutes, which tells me that in a very short time, the Oxygen was purged. This is a good thing.

 

[flars]

Dry yeast must be rehydrated before using it in the starter wort. Once it is rehydrated you basically have liquid yeast to work with. Pitch the rehydrated yeast into the starter wort within 30 minutes.
Don't use RO, distilled, or treated water for rehydrating. Bottled spring water or water from a private well, no water softener, is recommended for rehydrating.
A product called GoFerm can be used to treat RO and Distilled water for use in rehydrating.

 

[AnOldUR]

Yeast starters have two purposes; to bring cell count to the proper level and to verify the viability of the yeast. The only time to make a starter with dry yeast is if you have reason to question either of these things and can’t get another pack before brewday.




edit:
Come to think of it, the same holds true for liquid yeast (except for the cost factor.)

 

[unionrdr]

I rehydrate dry yeast packets in 400mL of local spring water in my flask. Get the water to 83-89F myself by nuking it in the flask. Then sprinkle the yeast in,cover & let sit 15 minutes. Then sanitize a skewer to stir it in,letting it sit another 15 minutes. Then check the temp with my All Temp laser thermometer to get it down within 10 degrees of wort temp to prevent shocking the yeast when pitched.

 

[1moorepease]

Thanks for all of the help. All of you were very helpful


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[ballsy]

I am only on my second batch so I am still very new to brewing. So I bought a yeast starter kit to try to get the most out of my beer but after reading posts I started to realize that yeast starters seem to mainly be used with liquid yeast. So if I'm not doing a beer with a high alcohol level will a yeast starter help if I'm using dry yeast?


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Since no one clarified one point here, amount of packets to use doesn't follow the amount being brewed as much as it does the OG of the beer. For a 5 gal batch, follow the rule if OG is = or < 1.060 then only 1 packet is typically needed, if > 1.060 then throw 2 packets in (which is usually still cheaper than 1 vial of liquid yeast).

 

[masscarriers]

You don't *have* to use a starter because of the reasons stated by CA Mouse, however, since you already have to stuff to do it, why wouldn't you.

I read somewhere else that dry yeast typically have the right energy reserves to jump start the fermentation process in the fermenter, and that by doing a starter you basically waste those reserves before pitching. Just rehydrating the yeast per the manufacturer's instruction might just be the optimal way to do it, even if you *can* make a starter. I'd like someone with more experience give it's input on it though.

 

[boydster]

I read somewhere else that dry yeast typically have the right energy reserves to jump start the fermentation process in the fermenter, and that by doing a starter you basically waste those reserves before pitching. Just rehydrating the yeast per the manufacturer's instruction might just be the optimal way to do it, even if you *can* make a starter. I'd like someone with more experience give it's input on it though.

Fermentis says there is no problem propagating dry yeast in a starter, just rehydrate before pitching into the starter wort. Logically, this makes sense. Once the yeast is hydrated, it is no different than liquid yeast. Any energy boost sacrificed would be offset by pitching an already active culture.

Usually, given the low cost of dry yeast and ease of use, pitching an extra packet makes more sense than making a starter.

 

[vNmd]

Get the water to 83-89F myself by nuking it in the flask. Then sprinkle the yeast in,cover & let sit 15 minutes. Then sanitize a skewer to stir it in,letting it sit another 15 minutes. Then check the temp with my All Temp laser thermometer to get it down within 10 degrees of wort temp to prevent shocking the yeast when pitched.

Just let it cool on its own or use chilled water bath to get it down to within 10 degrees of wort? I am doing a lager this weekend and will be using dry yeast for the first time. If my wort is 50 degrees, any idea how long I should let the re-hydrated yeast take to get to 60ish degrees for pitching so they are not shocked?

 

[boydster]

Just let it cool on its own or use chilled water bath to get it down to within 10 degrees of wort? I am doing a lager this weekend and will be using dry yeast for the first time. If my wort is 50 degrees, any idea how long I should let the re-hydrated yeast take to get to 60ish degrees for pitching so they are not shocked?

Once you are done rehydrating, you small amounts of chilled wort to bring the temperature down slowly (~5° at a time, then wait a couple minutes and repeat as needed).

 

[flars]

The viability of the yeast will begin to degrade after 30 minutes from the start of rehydration.

 

[DrumaKeg]

Dry yeast must be rehydrated before using it in the starter wort. Once it is rehydrated you basically have liquid yeast to work with. Pitch the rehydrated yeast into the starter wort within 30 minutes.
Don't use RO, distilled, or treated water for rehydrating. Bottled spring water or water from a private well, no water softener, is recommended for rehydrating.
A product called GoFerm can be used to treat RO and Distilled water for use in rehydrating.

Why is RO Water a no no? I have used it in with apparent issues? If the point of rehydrating is just to rehydrate and the dried yeast why would the water type as opposed to quality be important. Does it need minerals from the water? New to this so just asking. Trying to improve my process.



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[flars]

Why is RO Water a no no? I have used it in with apparent issues? If the point of rehydrating is just to rehydrate and the dried yeast why would the water type as opposed to quality be important. Does it need minerals from the water? New to this so just asking. Trying to improve my process.



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Yes, it is the minerals. Without the basic minerals in the water the osmotic pressure ruptures the cell walls of the yeast.
To find more information on rehydrating dry yeast go to Danstars site and search rehydrate in "Articles".

 

[DrumaKeg]

Cheers Flars. Most helpful.


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[unionrdr]

The viability of the yeast will begin to degrade after 30 minutes from the start of rehydration.

Idk about this one. Not absolutely anyway. I've had dry yeast re-hydrating over 30 minutes when ice bath took longer than usual. It just krausened up more...

 

[boydster]

The viability doesn't decrease after 30 minutes. The yeast run out of food and begin to get sleepy, so they might have a bit slower start. If you are adding wort to help cool at that point, though, that is a non-issue because you are providing more food.

 

[flars]

Idk about this one. Not absolutely anyway. I've had dry yeast re-hydrating over 30 minutes when ice bath took longer than usual. It just krausened up more...

I usually don't say, or print, something as a definite unless it comes from an authoritative source. The 30 minute thing is from Danstar.
When I throw the bull I prefer face-to-face. Then I can throw in the goofy grin right afterwards to ward of impending fisticuffs.

 

[boydster]

I here what you are saying, and ever so technically viability may decrease after 30 minutes, but it is no different than leaving liquid yeast to sit out for 30 minutes so the difference is negligible. In the Dry Yeast FAQ sticky in the Fermentation forum I linked to the Fermentis Tips and Tricks, and they discuss lengths of time it is acceptable to wait before pitching after hydrating.

And I love the imagery your post brought to mind


EDIT: Here is the info I found regarding delaying pitching after yeast is hydrated:

How quickly do I need to pitch yeast once it has been rehydrated?

Once the dry yeast has been reconstituted, you have a window of time to pitch the yeast with minimal risk of contamination that is dependent on temperature. If the yeast is being stored at 25C, you should pitch within 4 hours; at 20C you should pitch within 6 hours; at 4C you should pitch with 18 hours.

Keep in mind, it is a best practice to pitch the yeast as soon as possible. During the first 30 minutes, the yeast is given a boost from vital nutrients that are packaged with it to help energize the yeast as it enters into its growth phase. Waiting longer than the recommended 30 minutes causes the nutrients to be exhausted and the yeast will want to go dormant, increasing the chances that you'll see a longer lag time when you pitch it.



And the link to the Fermentis Tips and Tricks: http://en.calameo.com/read/0026934555f07e32293ea


And the quote from Clayton Cone about the 30 minute time frame from this link:

We recommend that the rehydrated yeast be added to the wort within 30 minutes. We have built into each
cell a large amount of glycogen and trehalose that give the yeast a burst of energy to kick off the growth
cycle when it is in the wort. It is quickly used up if the yeast is rehydrated for more than 30 minutes. There
is no damage done here if it is not immediately add to the wort. You just do not get the added benefit of that
sudden burst of energy

 

[unionrdr]

That last quote makes sense. It could help explain why the S-04 rehydrate took off after only a few hours in the ESB & nearly finished completely in 10 days. Catch it at the right time,around 30 minutes seems to catch it at that burst of energy.