I am missing a step in all grain brewing

[BARBQ]

I made two batches of all grain but it seems like the OG is way to low. I think it was at 1.020 on the hydrometer? I am not sure if I am reading it right. It is the 20 under the 1.00. It might be sparging from reading the forums but I am not sure because I squeeze every ounce of fluid from the grain bag after I steep at 150f for an hour. I downloaded beersmith but it seemed way to much and after I stared at it for 10 min I decided to drink a beer and come up with another way to solve my problem. Thats where you guys come in any help?

Golden Ale
7 lbs 2-row
1lb british cara pilsner
1 lb britsh medium crystal
1oz german pearl hops
safale s-04 ale yeast

Czech Lager
1lb. German light crystal
1lb. Belgian cara-pilsner
4 lbs. Global German Pilsner
4lbs. Czech Pilsner
2oz saaz hops
s-23 lager yeast

 

[Frodo]

I suggest reading http://www.howtobrew.com/

Sounds like you've only collected the first runnings from the mash... Sparging is rinsing the grains, not just squeezing the grain bag. Squeezing the grains is probably not a good idea, for the risk of tannin extraction from the husks. There are two ways to sparge, batch or fly. Batch sparging is essential draining the first runnings from the grain into a pot, then adding a bunch of water to the grain and mixing really well to dissolve more sugars, then draining again, and usually doing this once more to dissolve the sugars. Fly sparging sounds more complicated but isn't - it is slowly draining the runnings then adding more water to the top of the grain slowly over a fairly long period of time.

Make sure you cool the wort to near 60F if possible to get an accurate hydrometer reading by the way.

 

[earwig]

Did u try to brew the golden ale? What process did you follow? Was this a brew in a bag?

 

[Nuggethead]

What were the steps you performed and how much total water after the boil did you have. It sounds like your missing more than a step.

 

[Airborneguy]

Make sure you cool the wort to near 60F if possible to get an accurate hydrometer reading by the way.

I bet this is your culprit. If you roughly hit your OG on those recipes, but didn't adjust for temperature, you would get a reading in the mid-20's at mash temperature. I know this because I take my gravity readings at temp then adjust them; I don't wait for the sample to get to 60º.

Barring that, I ask whether you are crushing your grains. If you are doing brew in a bag, without crushing your grains, you are not getting much sugar from them.

 

[Hermit]

Tannis aren't released from squeezing the bag. It is a chemical thing based on PH. Crap, they BOIL grain for decoction mashes and don't worry about tannins. Lots of folks here, myself included squeeze the bag without getting tannins released.

 

[bwomp313]

Tannis aren't released from squeezing the bag. It is a chemical thing based on PH. Crap, they BOIL grain for decoction mashes and don't worry about tannins. Lots of folks here, myself included squeeze the bag without getting tannins released.

Agreed. I've been doing stove top all grain for a while and I ALWAYS squeeze the grain bag and have no negative effects. There are a lot of threads on here disputing the don't squeeze the grain bag ideology now.

 

[Frodo]

Tannis aren't released from squeezing the bag. It is a chemical thing based on PH.

Thanks for the clarification. OP, you still need to do more than just squeeze the bag though, squeezing the bag is not sparging.

 

[waldoar15]

5 gallon batch? How much water did you mash with and how much did you end up with?

That's a lot of crystal for the amount of base malt. Especially the lb of carapils/dextrine.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sounds like he's doing a concentrated boil and topping up but who knows.

 

[BARBQ]

I mashed with about 5 gallons. I have a big pot and a big stove top. Then after an hour I put a cooling rack on top of the pot and put the grain aka bag/panty hose on top and squeezed down. I added a half gallon of bottled water to cool down and whirpooled it. Then I put in my sink with ice water. Then I racked it from the pot to the ferm bucket.

I measured at 80F.

Thanks for all the help guys, I didnt think I would get this much of a response. Waldoar thanks for the advice. I have no idea on recipes as I am just trying to come up with something similiar to beers I like.

 

[sagnew440]

so you didn't boil the wort at all?

 

[waldoar15]

I mashed with about 5 gallons. I have a big pot and a big stove top. Then after an hour I put a cooling rack on top of the pot and put the grain aka bag/panty hose on top and squeezed down. I added a half gallon of bottled water to cool down and whirpooled it. Then I put in my sink with ice water. Then I racked it from the pot to the ferm bucket.

I measured at 80F.

Thanks for all the help guys, I didnt think I would get this much of a response. Waldoar thanks for the advice. I have no idea on recipes as I am just trying to come up with something similiar to beers I like.

By not sparging, you left a lot of sugars behind. I've never done any stove top AG, but there's a few threads on it here. Use the search. There's also some well used proven AG recipes here in the recipe database.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

 

[Mysticmead]

I mashed with about 5 gallons. I have a big pot and a big stove top. Then after an hour I put a cooling rack on top of the pot and put the grain aka bag/panty hose on top and squeezed down. I added a half gallon of bottled water to cool down and whirpooled it. Then I put in my sink with ice water. Then I racked it from the pot to the ferm bucket.

I measured at 80F.

Thanks for all the help guys, I didnt think I would get this much of a response. Waldoar thanks for the advice. I have no idea on recipes as I am just trying to come up with something similiar to beers I like.

sounds like you skipped the whole boil and add hops part of brewing..

 

[BARBQ]

I added the hops during the steeping stage then 15 min added, 15 min added. So after I do this I boil again. So on sparging I need to steep at a lower volume of water so I can sparge later.

So sparge once or twice it sounds like depending on what you want your effec and add to mash then boil again.

Thanks for the deathbrewer link, I checked it out. I wont have to change the way I do it to much so that is really good. I just need to sparge and then boild after I get all this done. I think that was where I was missing the extra. I think I need to use a grain bag instead it looked like it was more free in the mash to get the sugar out. the panty hose binds it all up and I can tell there is probably some in the middle I am not getting.

Is the second boil just for hops and sanitizing?

 

[flabyboy]

I definitely suggest you do some research by reading thru these forums and watching some YouTube videos before you attempt another batch. Looks like you missed a lot of steps

 

[Mysticmead]

steeping the hops will get you some aroma.. but that's about it. no bittering from steeping, they need to be boiled for that. read the how to brew thread..and read deathbrewers thread. it will help get you on the right track

 

[Bobby_M]

This isn't meant as a put down at all but your understanding of the basic all grain process is way off. I think if you were brewing extracts, you were probably following the no-boil, pre-hopped can kit directions.

In general, mashing is done with about half the overall batch volume and sparging is done for maximum extraction. You normally start out with 1.5 gallons MORE wort than your finished batch size and boil down from there. You need to boil hops with vigor to extract bitterness.

What you've made was a low gravity malt beverage with no bittering hops for balance.

All the recommendations for reading are good but I'd also suggest checking out the link below to my all grain primer article. It distills a lot of the details down into a 15 minute read.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Agreed, it appears you missed several steps, and do not have a clear understanding of what you are trying to accomplish/needs to be done.

Go here http://howtobrew.com/intro.html and start to read. It is very clear and will help you IMMENSELY.

Good luck.

 

[Mysticmead]

I noticed you're in Cypress, TX.. if close enough to Houston you could check out http://mashtronauts.pbworks.com/w/page/20456439/FrontPage I'm sure that brew club would be happy to help you learn to brew

 

[BARBQ]

This isn't meant as a put down at all but your understanding of the basic all grain process is way off. I think if you were brewing extracts, you were probably following the no-boil, pre-hopped can kit directions.

In general, mashing is done with about half the overall batch volume and sparging is done for maximum extraction. You normally start out with 1.5 gallons MORE wort than your finished batch size and boil down from there. You need to boil hops with vigor to extract bitterness.

What you've made was a low gravity malt beverage with no bittering hops for balance.

All the recommendations for reading are good but I'd also suggest checking out the link below to my all grain primer article. It distills a lot of the details down into a 15 minute read.

thanks I did/have read alot and should have read that. I read the polishing article before. I dont know how I missed these steps. I guess that clears up why every system I kept seeing has three pots. I just need to figure out what the hot liquor tank does now. Ive been reading alot since I got back into it and I think my past experience screwed me up. I used to brew alot a few years back and did extract with grain. I dont think I ever boiled or sparged before and didnt have problems. I guess with grain you got to get it all out.


I will check it out and this link per someone on the first page
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/index.html

 

[BARBQ]

I noticed you're in Cypress, TX.. if close enough to Houston you could check out http://mashtronauts.pbworks.com/w/page/20456439/FrontPage I'm sure that brew club would be happy to help you learn to brew

thanks, I have been looking for a club. We have the foam rangers, KGB and another newer one in Katy I noticed.

I should have taken a slower approach to getting back in and going all grain out of the chute, but oh well some of the worst mistakes are the lessons remembered. I guess I can always add everclear to the beer when it is done.

Reminds me of a beer I made between a miller lite and a margarita. Another story of bottles blowing up and turning into glass gernades.

 

[jgln]

Agreed, it appears you missed several steps, and do not have a clear understanding of what you are trying to accomplish/needs to be done.

Go here http://howtobrew.com/intro.html and start to read. It is very clear and will help you IMMENSELY.

Good luck.

Looks like that is not for brewing all grain which is what he is doing. I think the mashing/conversion is his biggest problem and that is not discussed in there, correct?

 

[azscoob]

Looks like that is not for brewing all grain which is what he is doing. I think the mashing/conversion is his biggest problem and that is not discussed in there, correct?

The best place to start is at the beginning I think. In the OP's case I would go through it in its entirety to better get a grasp on the whole process.

 

[BARBQ]

I just read the article and I think a combo of things but I just found another that made me lose more sugar.

A "good" crush is generally regarded as a mix of flour, coarse endosperm (the interior white part of the grain at about the size of coarse sea salt), and halved husks (not pulverized).
http://www.suebob.com/index.php?opt...in-primer&catid=40:brewing-articles&Itemid=66

When I poured the grain from the trash bag (got from brew supply) into the panty hose some of the white dust was left in the trash bag and then when it was poured into the panty hose alot went through and was on the floor. I didnt add either.

Thanks alot everyone again. I know you get these questions all the time, but it helped alot. If any of you have an Smoking BBQ questions in the future I can help.

 

[Mysticmead]

go get a 5 gallon paint strainer from Home Depot and leave the panty hose alone. that will allow the grain and water to mix better and that will increase the efficiency. More like the stove top brewing in deathbrewers thread

 

[BARBQ]

Can I get some clarification on this assuming I do 5 gallon batches? Do you make it 5 gallon of sparge, but get rid of extra depending on how much wort you produce? Im getting confused on why it is 6.5 Gallons.

To figure out how much to sparge with, take this pre boil figure (6.5) and subtract it from how much wort you collected out of the MLT for first runnings (say 2.5). This leaves you with 4 gallons. This is exactly how much you'll need to sparge with.

If it's a 5 gallon batch, heat up 5 gallons of sparge water to 180F.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Looks like that is not for brewing all grain which is what he is doing. I think the mashing/conversion is his biggest problem and that is not discussed in there, correct?

It is for all types of brewing; it is the first edition of Palmer's book "How to Brew" and that is simply the first page.

If you look there are multiple sections on the left hand side of the page which contain multiple chapters. The whole book is worth a read (and purchase, but the online free edition is a good place to start), but Section 3, chapters 14-18 cover all grain brewing.

 

[jgln]

It is for all types of brewing; it is the first edition of Palmer's book "How to Brew" and that is simply the first page.

If you look there are multiple sections on the left hand side of the page which contain multiple chapters. The whole book is worth a read (and purchase, but the online free edition is a good place to start), but Section 3, chapters 14-18 cover all grain brewing.

See that now, I just started reading the content and saw it was malts.

 

[Mysticmead]

Can I get some clarification on this assuming I do 5 gallon batches? Do you make it 5 gallon of sparge, but get rid of extra depending on how much wort you produce? Im getting confused on why it is 6.5 Gallons.

To figure out how much to sparge with, take this pre boil figure (6.5) and subtract it from how much wort you collected out of the MLT for first runnings (say 2.5). This leaves you with 4 gallons. This is exactly how much you'll need to sparge with.

If it's a 5 gallon batch, heat up 5 gallons of sparge water to 180F.

in order to figure up the amount of sparge water, you need to know how much wort was collected with the 1st running. if you got 2.5 gallons, then you'd sparge with 4 gallons . the reason you collect 6.5 gallons (or more) is because you will be boiling for an hour. during that hour you lose volume due to evaporation (boil off). typical rates of 15% per hour would leave you with 5-5.5 gallons of wort post boil. the extra amount allows for loss in the primary at the end of fermentation.