I am getting horrible efficiency and really feel like giving up. HELP!

[lithium726]

Hi guys. I've been lurking around here for recipes and whatnot for a while, and I recently got into All Grain. I'm getting efficiencies down in the 50's and under, and for the life of me I CANNOT figure it out, and it's really, really starting to frustrate me. I have 3-4 batches of beer that is pretty far below the ABV standard for the style.

I've been doing mostly lagers lately, so I've been using softer water. I've been doing 2 gal Spring with 3-4gal RO water and the 1tbs of the 5.2 powder to mash with.

I've been doing a 30-min rest at 122 and 60 min at 150, temps are +-2F generally and maintain for the duration.

My mash tun is a 48qt (I think) coleman cooler and I'm using SS mesh off some hose for the filter. It runs about 5/8 of the length of the cooler in the middle and is screwed down on the inside.

I've been lautering and sparging slowly (gave it an hour tonight - combined), and while most of them I've batch sparged, in an effort to get my yeild up I drilled some holes in a hose and did a continuous sparge this time.

My grain bill tonight was 9.5lb american 2-row and .75lb 60L for a Vienna. Boil gravity was 1.026 at 130F and OG is 1.036. Awful. I get my grain crushed at my LHBS, Homebrew Headquarters in Richardson. 1 pass. My next thought is grain crush, but I really don't want to waste more time and money chasing this problem.

I thought maybe it was my hydrometer, the wort tasted very sweet. However, I got a tall glass of RO water and it read dead on 1.00.

I have no f'ing idea what I'm doing wrong. It should NOT be this low. Please help

edit: preboil: 6gal. There's a little under 5 gal in the fermenter, did an hour boil. I use a propane burner and a 7gal pot. I also normally do 6.5gal preboil, but I ran out of sparge water tonight.. I've generally been mashing 2qt/lb, about 1qt/gal for the 122 rest.

 

[bob1852]

my first thoughts are to make sure that your are calculating everything correctly.

How are you measuring volumes?

How are you measuring temperatures? Are you sure your thermometer is accurate?

And, how much water are you mashing with? And how much runnings are you collecting?

 

[scottland]

How hot is your sparge water? How much water are you sparging? And how much, if any, wort is left in your mash tun?

 

[northernlad]

To add to the questions:
HAve you verified that you are getting amount the grain you paid for?

 

[brewingkitty]

i would say buy a kit for a max of $25 from northern brewer or the like and see how it turns out, it will rule out crush for sure.

 

[lithium726]

I weigh and mill the grain myself at the brewstore, it's self serve.

Sparge water is 165F. Measuring temps with a floating thermometer, not sure how I can calibrate it since I don't really trust any termometer in this apt.

Measuring volumes from marks I made on my collection bucket by pouring gallons in at at time

I've been mashing 2gal/qt, so for this last batch, 5.25gal. Sparged with 2gal.

Initial runnings was 4gal, as I thought it would be. General loss is .5qt/gal, so I figured a 1.25gal loss.

Nothing left in mash tun.

 

[bob1852]

I weigh and mill the grain myself at the brewstore, it's self serve.

Sounds like you're good there.

Sparge water is 165F. Measuring temps with a floating thermometer, not sure how I can calibrate it since I don't really trust any termometer in this apt.

I'd get at least one more thermometer and check it.

Measuring volumes from marks I made on my collection bucket by pouring gallons in at at time

Those buckets are usually way off on their measurements; at least in my experience.

Nothing left in mash tun.

I haven't heard of anyone that has zero loss in their MLT. Are you sure?

 

[lithium726]

Those buckets are usually way off on their measurements; at least in my experience.

They're my own marks, I took a gallon jug of water and filled it up 6 times, each time marking where the water hit

I haven't heard of anyone that has zero loss in their MLT. Are you sure?

I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly. When I sparge, I put 2 gal in and let it drain until there's nothing coming out anymore. Wouldn't this mean the mash tun is empty?

 

[bob1852]

I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly. When I sparge, I put 2 gal in and let it drain until there's nothing coming out anymore. Wouldn't this mean the mash tun is empty?

If you put in 2 gallons, how much do you retrieve?

 

[lithium726]

If you put in 2 gallons, how much do you retrieve?

2 gal. I was right at 6 gal today for my boil volume, and I used 5.25gal to mash, 2gal to sparge... at 1.25gal loss, that's right on.

In the past I've just dumped the sparge water in and let it sit for another 15 mins or so before draining, and come to think of it, the Dos Equis I did a month ago came out with a gravity that was MUCH closer to what it should be than this one, same grain volume, and it was in the mid 1.04's. 1.046 or so iirc. I also got that batch crused at AHS because I was in Austin at the time.

of course, back then I was lautering and sparging WAY too fast, and I figured that was part of my problem.

 

[lithium726]

If you put in 2 gallons, how much do you retrieve?

2 gal. I was right at 6 gal today for my boil volume, and I used 5.25gal to mash, 2gal to sparge... at 1.25gal loss, that's right on.

In the past I've just dumped the sparge water in and let it sit for another 15 mins or so before draining, and come to think of it, the Dos Equis I did a month ago came out with a gravity that was MUCH closer to what it should be than this one, same grain volume, and it was in the mid 1.04's. 1.046 or so iirc. I also got that batch crused at AHS because I was in Austin at the time.

of course, back then I was lautering and sparging WAY too fast, and I figured that was part of my problem.

 

[atgunning]

Never mind.....last post answered my supposition.

 

[scottland]

Ok, I see a couple things.

Your sparge water is WAY too cold. It should be about 200* to raise the temp of your grain bed up to 170*. Also you need to stir like crazy when you first dump the water in. Stirring during the batch sparge is absolutely critical to get the sugars in suspension, and out of the grain.

Also what we talk about with how much wort is left in the mash tun: when you're cleaning out your grains out of the mash tun, how much residual mash liquid is in there with the grains? A cup? A quart? Everyonly has some if it is a quart or two, that could be part of the problem.

 

[motobrewer]

200F sparge water? the grain bed is already near 150. I'd say 165F is too cold but I'm not sure about sparging with 200F?

 

[scottland]

I guess you're right, it depends on the size of the grain bill, and my last 3-4 brews have been 14-16# grain bills, so the 200 number is stuck in my head.

185* is about right for a 10# grain bill, which is still much hotter than 165. Sparging with 165 will bring the grain to about 154-155, not where you want to be sparging at.

 

[Yooper]

200F sparge water? the grain bed is already near 150. I'd say 165F is too cold but I'm not sure about sparging with 200F?

My experience is that it DOES require water over 185 degrees (usually nearly 200 F) to get the grain bed from 153ish to 168 for the first round of batch sparging.

 

[motobrewer]

hm, fair enough. maybe that's the reason for my low-ish eff?

i guess i've never even checked the temp of a sparge....

 

[johnodon]

My experience is that it DOES require water over 185 degrees (usually nearly 200 F) to get the grain bed from 153ish to 168 for the first round of batch sparging.

If you double sparge and get the grain bed to 168* by adding 200* water for the first sparge, how hot should the second sparge be? ~170* since the grain bed is already at 168*?

John

 

[Fletch78]

If you double sparge and get the grain bed to 168* by adding 200* water for the first sparge, how hot should the second sparge be? ~170* since the grain bed is already at 168*?

John

Correct.

 

[RandomSF]

Have you run an iodine test to see if you have complete conversion?

 

[RosewaterFoundation]

I have been getting my grain from this same LHBS, and I have consistently had low efficiency as well. I recently ordered my grain from Austin Homebrew Supply and am curious to see if this solves the problem.

 

[HickoryMike]

I have yet to do a true mash out and my efficiency is around 80%. I'm not sure we're solving the OP's problem by making him worry about that right now.

 

[jkreuze]

Sparge water is 165F. Measuring temps with a floating thermometer, not sure how I can calibrate it since I don't really trust any termometer in this apt.

.

Boil water, does your thermometer read 212F? If so, it is working properly.

(This is assuming you don't live on top of a mountain or inside a decompression chamber.)

 

[kuphish]

Before you start randomly troubleshooting this and that, it would be good to figure out where your losses are. In other words, is your brewhouse efficiency suffering because you are losing out on conversion efficiency or lauter efficiency? In order to determine this, you should brew a batch and fill out this spreadsheet using measurements that are as precise as possible. Then you will know where your losses are and you will have some direction in your troubleshooting. Otherwise you are simply taking shots in the dark and hoping something works.

Good luck!

 

[wyzazz]

I have yet to do a true mash out and my efficiency is around 80%. I'm not sure we're solving the OP's problem by making him worry about that right now.

I'll echo this and add my $.02. I want a picture of the crush you're getting from the LHBS. The crush can play a big role in your efficiency.

 

[shoebag22]

Boil water, does your thermometer read 212F? If so, it is working properly.

(This is assuming you don't live on top of a mountain or inside a decompression chamber.)

just make an ice bath in a glass and drop the thermo in... should read 32F

 

[prosper]

you are doing a sparge, right? As in, running off your mash, THEN adding additional water (stirring, and waiting a bit), and then running off again?

Adding water first and then running everything off in one shot will usually cost you a few points efficiency (but it'll also save you some time).

 

[Bobby_M]

First, stop trying to fly sparge with a stainless braid. It's not going to help you.

Don't assume the LHBS's mill is set to a reasonably fine enough gap. Take a picture of the grain for us.

I see two potential problems with your process, as you've described it so far.

First, I don't think you're stirring your sparge water into the grain. Again, assuming you go with batch sparging which is what I think you should do with your currently setup, drain your first runnings, add the sparge water at about 185F and stir the hell out of it for 3 minutes straight. Vorlauf and drain, no waiting necessary.

Second, calculate your mash thickness so that your runnings volumes (first and second runnings) are closer to the same volume. Take the example of 10.25 pounds. Let's say you mash with 16 quarts or 4 gallons (it works out to 1.56qts/lb but whatever). That grain will keep about .5qts/lb so your first runnings will be just under 3 gallons. That leaves you with a sparge volume of 3 gallons. See how the two runnings are close to the same volume (3 gallons)? That increase efficiency a bit, but not as much as a better crush or actually stirring sparge water in if you're not already.

 

[WildGingerBrewing]

I doubt the grain crush is the issue, only becuase I use the same LHBS also, and have never had this problem. Of course, someone very easily could have adjusted the gap since it is self serve. There is another LHBS here in Dallas, for the record, and that's where I've been going lately. It's called Winemkaers Toystore and it's at Beltline and 35. That being said, I have to agree that it sounds your sparge could be the problem. I do 2 sparges of equal amounts after I collect first runnings. Sparge, vorlauf, collect, sparge, vorlauf, collect. Try that and see what happens.

 

[johnodon]

Sparge, vorlauf, collect, sparge, vorlauf, collect. Try that and see what happens.

It's funny you just wrote that here. I was so concerned that I wasn't sparging correctly that when I finally did get it right in my head, I e-mailed myself to have a permanent record when I got home. Here is the content of my e-mail:

vorlauf
vorlauf
drain
sparge
stir
sit 10
vorlauf
vorlauf
drain
sparge
stir
sit 10
vorlauf
vorlauf
drain
boil​

John