How would you price your homebrew? market value.

[edb23]

anybody ever break the speed limit? that's against the law to about the same degree as selling a bottle of homebrew to a legal adult in most states. At least in PA where i live, a buddy of mine who's in law school showed me all the statutes and everything, and IIRC selling a real small amount of homebrew in PA results in a fine that's smaller then the speeding ticket i got last week.

Yeah, you shouldn't break the law. But selling a bottle of homebrew to a friend because he offered you some money is not the same as selling blow to fifteen year olds. Realistically, you would never get caught or arrested for doing it unless you were running an underground bar and beer distributor in your basement, and even if you did that and got caught home brewing would still be legal for everyone else.

I understand that now i'm going to get flamed and what not, but before you do please understand my point. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you're a bad bad man if you've done it before, or that you're asking for jail time. And in a forum populated entirely by adults it's a little ridiculous that any time anyone wants to entertain a hypothetical discussion about the gray areas of the law a million preachers and nay sayers come out of the woodwork to talk about how morally reprehensible even thinking about it is.

Just my .02

 

[samc]

If I planned to sell my beer in a legit commercial operation after acquiring all the needed licenses I'd price it near the top of the local market for craft beers. Prior business experience has shown that I feel most comfortable having fewer customers paying more for better product.

 

[Revvy]

anybody ever break the speed limit? that's against the law to about the same degree as selling a bottle of homebrew to a legal adult in most states. At least in PA where i live, a buddy of mine who's in law school showed me all the statutes and everything, and IIRC selling a real small amount of homebrew in PA results in a fine that's smaller then the speeding ticket i got last week.

*yawn*

Here we go again the same tired argument someone always trots out when this is discussed.....

 

[samc]

Beating a dead horse or showing pictures of that is illegal in most jurisdictions.

 

[Airborneguy]

I understand that now i'm going to get flamed and what not, but before you do please understand my point.

I'm not going to flame you, and I totally understand your point. I 100% agree that the odds of being caught are less than the odds of a nuclear missile hitting me square in the head right now.

The reason I lay out the legalities whenever this comes up though is that this forum is the first result that comes up whenever you search for something homebrew related, so people reading some of these posts might very well be using them as their only source of information. Anyone with a brain knows that they aren't going to get caught or prosecuted for "trading" $5 for a bottle of their homebrew, BUT, they aren't the guy looking for ways to start an illegal business, and our information should reflect the outright illegal nature of these endeavors.

 

[Joker]

anybody ever break the speed limit? that's against the law to about the same degree as selling a bottle of homebrew to a legal adult in most states. At least in PA where i live, a buddy of mine who's in law school showed me all the statutes and everything, and IIRC selling a real small amount of homebrew in PA results in a fine that's smaller then the speeding ticket i got last week.

Yeah, you shouldn't break the law. But selling a bottle of homebrew to a friend because he offered you some money is not the same as selling blow to fifteen year olds. Realistically, you would never get caught or arrested for doing it unless you were running an underground bar and beer distributor in your basement, and even if you did that and got caught home brewing would still be legal for everyone else.

I understand that now i'm going to get flamed and what not, but before you do please understand my point. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you're a bad bad man if you've done it before, or that you're asking for jail time. And in a forum populated entirely by adults it's a little ridiculous that any time anyone wants to entertain a hypothetical discussion about the gray areas of the law a million preachers and nay sayers come out of the woodwork to talk about how morally reprehensible even thinking about it is.

Just my .02

I think you are missing the point of what most here are saying. We aren't implying we are goody goodies that never break the rules we are saying we prefer to give them as gifts to our friends. We aren't giving away 5 gallons at a time, just a bottle or two from the herd.

Does your wife charge when she give cookies, cakes, or pies to friends? See what I'm saying. Sometimes you just give things for the pleasure of seeing someone enjoy it or the feedback you get on the item.

 

[edb23]

Hey i know what most people are getting at. It just frustrates me that often times a person will ask a question like this, which could lead to an interesting discussion, and everyone jumps all over it just saying nope nope illegal illegal.

and of course dismissing an argument that reasonably and logically counters your own as "tired" is another really adult, intelligent, and mature line of discussion to engage in. the fact that people can't have intelligent hypothetical discussions about things as trivial as "if you could legally sell your beer, what would it cost" without people who feel like their smarter then everyone else getting on a soap box and preaching (or acting the reverend if you will) about the importance of obeying minor laws and statutes is absurd. if you have something to add to a discussion then add it, but don't jump in just to tell people how they're questions are stupid or leading towards "sinful thought"

 

[TheBrewinator]

Most people enjoy this hobby, they do it for fun, and they love sharing it with people and drinking it themselves. If my friends wanted some, I'd share it with them. If they wanted even more, I'd make them help brew and pitch in on brew day (which could even include helping pay for the grains).

Pretty sure by making them help and or pay for grains you are receiving goods and services for homebrew so in the strictest moral police sense, this would be illegal as well.

 

[Germelli1]

My friend's dad buys half of the ingredients for a batch and he gets some. It helps me brew more to get my processes down as well as experiment and he likes session beers so it is a quick turn around time. It is never for profit...I usually provide the bulk grains and washed yeast and he will lend me a propane tank and/or buy any specialty hops and grains. He just likes to support the hobby so I can brew more and of greater veriety. It works for me to see someone thoroughly enjoy the product who can give me productive feedback.

 

[Tinga]

The reason I lay out the legalities whenever this comes up though is that this forum is the first result that comes up whenever you search for something homebrew related, so people reading some of these posts might very well be using them as their only source of information.

Hate to burst your bubble on this because I think it's a good point but the reason Home Brew Talk pops up near the top is because google customizes your searches. You've been on this forum a bunch and you use the search function on this site powered by google. Using your own computer to measure google rankings is never a good idea. Just a little heads up.

 

[bernerbrau]

Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

That's the bottom line, folks.

Not trying to be argumentative, but... how are our swaps legal then?

 

[TopherM]

You know, I used to work at a Rock Bottom/Big River brewery as a bartender, and also spent alot of time helping out the regional brewer on various weekend mornings. I was also in charge of inventory, including brewed beer stock, which was a tricky one.

Anyway, we made 7 basic brews, then had one or two rotating seasonals. All of the basic brews cost in the neighborhood of 9-12 cents a PINT to produce. From there, there was a federal tax of about 28 cents per pint sold, and a state tax of about 77 cents per pint sold, including the overhead of ongoing licencing and compliance and sales tax. This was in South Carolina, which I am told has pretty strict beer laws and above average licencing fees.

Anyway, so you have to think that in the real world your beer costs much more in overhead than it will to make, so an average homebrew is probably worth about $1.05 PLUS cost of goods PLUS cost of labor, then marked up about 25-50%.

I bet my average batch at my current costs would demand about $20.00 cost of goods, PLUS $1.05/pint federal/state taxes and overhead ($43.05/batch...this number is probably MUCH lower in a mass-production facility in the three-tier system), PLUS about $60.00 labor PLUS 25% markup= $153.81/batch divided by 55 bottles = $2.79 a bottle or $16.78 a six pack or $3.72 a pint to gross about $32 a batch BEFORE the rest of my overhead (production facility, equipment, etc.).

So, basically, without getting my costs WAYYYYY down, I would be selling $3.75 pints at the local brewpub to make about $0.58 per beer sold before other set costs. Not too bad!

 

[makomachine]

Not trying to be argumentative, but... how are our swaps legal then?

A friend of my second cousin's girlfriend said its fine and she once temped at a law firm in Chicago. No worries!

 

[BrewerinBR]

Never sold any home brew, never will, even if it were legal to sell it I would not. The reason is simple, I cannot put a price on it, because Home Brew is PRICELESS!

 

[Revvy]

Not trying to be argumentative, but... how are our swaps legal then?

I never said they were, or weren't. Like I said in a later post I just did some searching for federal ttb info for swaps or exchanges for "educational purposes" and couldn't find answers yay or nay. SOmeone else posted in response to me that it might be handled on a state by state basis. I mentioned in my response to HIS post that even laws regarding clubs are different state to state. (Ya gotta keep up. )

For all we know exchanges are illegal....I know on here there's reasons why Tex and the mods only want "official" swaps to be done between paying members and I think behind the "google wall."

But probably it has to do with "intent."

 

[asidrane]

Hey i know what most people are getting at. It just frustrates me that often times a person will ask a question like this, which could lead to an interesting discussion, and everyone jumps all over it just saying nope nope illegal illegal.

and of course dismissing an argument that reasonably and logically counters your own as "tired" is another really adult, intelligent, and mature line of discussion to engage in. the fact that people can't have intelligent hypothetical discussions about things as trivial as "if you could legally sell your beer, what would it cost" without people who feel like their smarter then everyone else getting on a soap box and preaching (or acting the reverend if you will) about the importance of obeying minor laws and statutes is absurd. if you have something to add to a discussion then add it, but don't jump in just to tell people how they're questions are stupid or leading towards "sinful thought"

Thank you. There are too many attempts to end intelligent hypothetical discussions on the internet. If you aren't interested in the subject, don't reply.

I would like to sell a 22oz bottle of Hoppicratic Oath for $8.

 

[BelgianKing]

My buddie and I share equipment, which I have the MT, Burner and wort chiller. He uses my stuff and in return he gives me a few brews. To me its just friends being friends. Its nice to have a variety too. He brews a stout, I brew a IPA. We share them. My cousin the other day asked me if he could buy a 6er of my IPA. I told him that I dont sell my beer. If you would like some then come over when I schedule my IPA and help make it. Then come over to help bottle it. Gets them involved to see the awesome process and maybe get them to buy a kit and start making it. This is my hobby and outlet to create. The smiles on peoples faces after they try my beer is the best for me. I am a chef so its the same thing when people eat my food at my restaurant.

If I were to sell it, I would sell it for $5,000 a 12oz. Any takers?

 

[Revvy]

If I were to sell it, I would sell it for $5,000 a 12oz. Any takers?

Only if it were stuffed up a taxidermy squirrel's butt.

 

[hamrd]

If you had to place a market value on your homebrew, how much? If you were to sell it or purchase it, what would the value be, in your best opinion. By the gallon or by the bottle, finished product. Just trying have some input in a debate. Thanks

probably more than anyone would ever pay

 

[Bobby_M]

A business plan involving bottled distribution at the nano-brewery level would never get the investment. The only nano model that works as far as I know is the 100% tasting room and/or mixed with local keg distribution. There's just way too much overhead in packaging and the market retail price is too low. In other words, you can get $4 a pint in a tasting room.

 

[LVBen]

Wow! This EAC thread went bad very quickly!

I don't think the OPs intent was to actually sell homebrew. It is probably just meant to be theoretical.
Money represents value/services/work. There is value in your homebrews, whether you actually sell them or not. I think the OP just wants to know what that value is in our own opinions.

I hope you didn't scare her away after her first post.

 

[LVBen]

I'd sell my APAs at a similar price to SN APA. $6/6 pack.
I'd sell my IPAs at about $4-$5 per bomber.
I'd sell 1-year old barleywines for $7/bomber.

I'd have free domestic shipping on all orders over $75.

 

[Germelli1]

Agreed with LVBen!

With the brews I brew the most, this is probably where I would price them.
Kolsch-$6 per sick pack.
Maibock/Altbier/Marzen/American amber (seasonal rotation)- all for $7-$8 per sixer
Mild brown ale/Ordinary bitter/etc (all session ales) - $5 a sixer

I would be like starr hill and always have some cool beers on tap just in the tasting room for the local like their dry hopped imperial stout, Thomas Jefferson Ale, DIPA, etc etc

 

[Phunhog]

A business plan involving bottled distribution at the nano-brewery level would never get the investment. The only nano model that works as far as I know is the 100% tasting room and/or mixed with local keg distribution. There's just way too much overhead in packaging and the market retail price is too low. In other words, you can get $4 a pint in a tasting room.

I was seriously going the nano route until it was sidelined by my city's zoning laws It probably was a blessing in disguise though. Nano's just don't make enough money, as Bobby said, without a tap room. The profit margin is just too thin selling kegs direct to bars and restaurants. BUT that does not mean you can't recoup costs or even make a little money with your homebrew!! Of course you can't sell your homebrew, that is out of the question. What I did is make an awesome "local" logo and put it on shirts. I sell them at tasting parties and they are a huge hit. People know that I can't sell them beer but they are more than willing to buy a shirt to support the "brewery". Of course I can't "force" them to buy a shirt!! Anyways I have made a couple of hundred dollars. The people get a cool shirt and I cover my beer costs and make a little bit of cash. It's a win/win!!

 

[brewgirl11]

Thanks for all the replies. I don't want to sell it. Trying to come to an agreement on the value. I recently had to forfeit a considerable inventory. I really do need a realistic value. I know it is very difficult to price a labor of love, but in this case, I need to!!

 

[cfonnes]

I made the Rochfort 8 clone recipe that is on this site, except I substituted chocolate malt and carafa for the special B and aromatic. Ran out it last week, right now I would probably give $10 for a 12 oz bottle of that stuff.

Guess what I am brewing next?

For a typical APA that I brew, I would pay $2 - 3 per 12 oz.

 

[BelgianKing]

Only if it were stuffed up a taxidermy squirrel's butt.

That would be worth it then! HAHA!

 

[SimBrew]

I like so much to brew that I already give at least half of every batch to friends and family. My girl friend would never let me brew 15 to 20 batch a year if I didn't share.
Everyone have liked every beer that I gave to now.
Selling it would give peoples the right to tell me it's not good enough and make me give less beer, then brew less and that would make me very sad.

 

[qbst]

Thanks for all the replies. I don't want to sell it. Trying to come to an agreement on the value. I recently had to forfeit a considerable inventory. I really do need a realistic value. I know it is very difficult to price a labor of love, but in this case, I need to!!

Now this is a very different question. Not so much "How much would you sell them for," but "How much would you value them to be." Different questions with different results.

Valuation could be done in any number of ways. Personally, if I were valuing my beer for some reason, I would calculate costs of:

ingredients
bottles (or kegs)
fuel
equipment, including brew software
labor
space

Add those costs together, that's the value of one batch. If you need to divide value into per bottle or per keg, just divide your total batch amount by the number of bottles/kegs, and there you go.

----
Example: Revvy's Squirrel Spew Brew

Ingredients: $42 (grain, hops, yeast, water)
50 bottles, flip top - $4 per bottle, but reused, so $2 per bottle x 50 = $100
fuel: 1/6 propane tank @ $20 per tank = $3.33
equipment: $200 / 4 batches to date = $50
labor: 6 hours @ $15/hr = $90
space: 2 months using 1 sq foot of apartment space @ $1/sq foot per month = $2

Total value: $287.33
per bottle value: $5.75

-----
Note: equip value can be done several ways; labor value is self-determined; bottle value would be different if you used regular bottles; space cost per sq foot would be rent divided by square feet of living space.


I realize my valuation method includes almost everything possible, but really, that's the only way I would feel comfortable valuing the products of a hobby.

 

[BrewThruYou]

My girl friend would never let me brew 15 to 20 batch a year if I didn't share.

You would also be 400 pounds if you brewed all those batches and drank them all yourself.