How to reduce or eliminate sorghum "twang"

[Labatts]

Believe I've found a way to effectively reduce or eliminate the twang found in sorghum based beers.

I should have posted this in its own thread a long time ago so here is a link to the conversations that have already transpired.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=627515

Please read thru the entire post as many of your questions may have already been answered.

After a lot of research and another poster trying my method I believe we may have a simple solution to having great sorghum based beers without the metallic twang.

I hope others will give Clarity Ferm a try, not to reduce gluten but to reduce or eliminate the sorghum twang and post back with their finds, positive or negative. I am celiac and only have the ability right now to brew gluten free beer from extracts that are 100% gluten free or BIAB method which is cost prohibitive at this time. Just wanted a good beer again and began researching what gives sorghum its "twang" and what enzymes could work at dropping out unnecessary/unwanted proteins.

Anyways 10ml clarity Ferm per 5.0-5.25 gallons of wort is all that should be needed in a sorghum based beer at a rate of 6.6lbs sorghum syrup. Pitch temp has always been right on 70 degrees with great aeration prior to pitching Clarity Ferm and yeast. Fermentation Temperature range of 68-72 degrees, still experimenting with different yeast strains. Another poster noted good results with T58. I was using Danstar British ale yeast but will be trying either S-04 or US-05 next for its better flocculation and lower diacetyl production.

In the near future I will be contacting White Labs who producers Clarity Ferm hopefully for further study. I will keep and post a journal of the conversations with White Labs here as well.

Please feel free to post, comment or ask questions. I'd love to here back from the community especially with their results and opinions.

I will be sharing all of my testing and keeping this journal here from this point forward.

Thank you to BrewGF (Craig) for all his efforts, ideas and comments.

There is merit to this so please give it a try and share your findings.

Hope to hear from all,
Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Just had a gluten free sorghum based homebrew beer. Somewhere between 1 1/2 to 2 months post bottling and no residual "twang" taste what's so ever. Anyone else trying this yet? Would like to hear back from the community with there results. Thanks!

 

[JMath]

Thanks for posting this. I was seriously considering jumping to all-grain, but dreading the equipment purchases. I think I'll try this first instead.

What's the best way to get Clarity Ferm?

 

[z-bob]

Are you using sorghum molasses, or malting and mashing grain sorghum? If the latter, don't you have to worry about producing cyanide from the glycosides? (maybe cyanide is what's making it twangy

 

[brewGF]

My LHBS has clarity ferm for $3.25. About $6 at Amazon.

I believe Labatt is using only Breiss sorghum syrup.

 

[Labatts]

JMath if you have a local home brew supply store near you they can get clarity Ferm from their wholesaler. Ask them to carry it for you and out it in the shelf away from direct sunlight. All wholesale distributors either carry it or can get it. Tell the LHBS how many per year you think you will use. The shelf life if over a year so they shouldn't have any issue bringing it in for you.

Of like brew said, Amazon or any of the big 3, Midwest supply, northern brewer or homebrew supply all carry clarity Ferm.

I was in the exact same boat as you. Not only am I lacking the necessary space but the funds to purchase all grain equipment. I knew there had to be another way and put my brain to work until I came up with a viable option.

Please post back once you give er a try. I would love to hear about your results and opinions.

Thanks,
Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Z-bob,
I live in NY and have not found a raw sorghum source so I am using Briess Sorghum syrup. Been looking for alternatives to reduce cost but aside from purchasing 55-275 gallon drums or totes this is what I'm stuck with for now.

As for producing cyanide, and believe it's hydrogen cyanide yes you are correct but at this stage I'm leaving that to Briess to worry about. A lot of plants, nuts and fruits we consume contain low levels of hydrogen cyanide and yes they can be concentrated in such things as extracts, syrups and malts there are some many things that will kill us, I'm not worried about the cyanide. LOL. As for the twang in sorghum based beers, no I do not believe its from concentrated cyanided levels or minerals especially iron. The twang is from simple amino acids or proteins found in the sorghum syrup and I'm leaning towards the latter with my testing. Once my fancy scientist isolates these proteins or not I will have the answer 100% either way.

So the question was how to remove or reduce these proteins. I knew enzymes would be the answers just which one or ones and how they are breaking the protein chains. Believe I will also be able to reduce the amount of enzymes needed to break the chemical bonds in the protien(s). Time and testing will tell.

Whether the twang is coming from a protein found in the sorghum itself or from cyanide concentration we are breaking the chains causing them to fall out of suspension resulting in a much cleaner tasting beer. Either way the twang is without a doubt 100% from the sorghum itself. Maltodextrine, hops and yeast are not casing the metallic twang.

Thank you for your time and damn good question. This was brought up and discussed but at this time I'm working on isolating other specific proteins. I have no issues tasting most proteins found in beer (gluten free of course)but not too keen on tasting hydrogen cyanide in concentrated levels to find out if it's twangy.

Keep the input coming and we will have our answers soon enough.

Labatts.

 

[z-bob]

I couldn't tell if you were malting your own sorghum, or buying sorghum molasses, or commercial sorghum malt syrup (I didn't know that last one was even a thing) A quarter pound of sorghum sprouts can contain enough cyanide to kill an adult. Drying it does not remove the toxicity. There are cases of it killing cattle; I don't know human cases.

I doubt it would taste or smell like hydrogen cyanide; it's probably bitter and weird sugars or proteins that produce the HCN when they react with your stomach acid. Your subject line caught my eye, and I just thought I should mention it.

Down south, grain sorghum is commonly called "milo", and you should be able to buy sacks of it at a feed store. (do you have feed stores in NY

Edit: I've been reading about traditional sorghum beers in Africa. Perhaps the dhurrin toxin does not survive brewing and fermenting, because it doesn't bother the natives. So... nevermind.

 

[Labatts]

Z-bob

Glad you stopped by. Yes we have feed store like Agway just around the comer from me.

The whole home brewing process fior me cones down to just a few things. 1) being cost. 2). Being I just want a dam good beer I can drink again and 3) availability of ingredients.

Just had a 6'er of sorghum based home brew that had been bottle aging for about 2 months I think ( have to check note) but gosh darn was it good. I haven't drank a 6'er in probably 10 years. Boy am I feeling it whoa! It just was so easy to drink and very enjoyable.

Wanted to go all grain but for me there is no need now. I can produce exactly what I like. Which is something Canadian. It's just like Canadian beer and its gluten free. Thus stuff could be dangerous lol.

Anyways if anything else comes to mind please feel free to share your thoughts.

Labatts .

 

[Labatts]

Craig,
How did your sorghum beer turn out the one with the enzyme? Mine was excellent.

 

[madscientist451]

The Basic Brewing podcast has featured Sorghum a few times:

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=february-20-2017-sorghum-belgian-style-ale

 

[brewGF]

Outstanding ! No unpleasant sorghum finish. I am aching to brew again soon when I can find the time.

 

[Labatts]

Craig,
Wonderful. Hope the move went well for you.

Made my first batch of wine last weekend, a Pinot Noir. Have a few things to do with the wine this weekend so sometime shortly I will be making another sorghum based homebrew. Think I'm going to try D-90 in this batch if my LHBS has more in stock. If not maybe D-45.

Best of luck,
Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Madscientist,
Cool find. Just wish they had made a gluten free beer and not just used the sorghum in place if Belgian candy syrup. Never the less cool find and thank you for introducing me to a neat brewing site.

Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Another update, about 3 months past bottling.

Beer is still fantastic, better than ever. Do to cost savings of this process I will not likely be going full grain anytime soon. I'm producing great beers for a fraction of grain brewing and with sorghum. Before I started thus venture I was very skeptical at best but cannot believe the results I've had. I urge anyone interested in brewing gluten free beer to try this before purchasing all the expensive grain brewing equipment and save the equipment money for ingredients and the best hops.

Pleased post your results as we can only get better from here on out.

Cheers!
Labatts

 

[brewGF]

I brewed up a batch earlier this week using sotghum, clarity ferm, and US05. Will certainly post results to provide more data points...and the recipe if it turns out to be anything special.

 

[Labatts]

BrewGF,
Awesome can't wait to hear back from ya. Good luck. I need to brew another batch myself but just been to busy but Finally had a chance to work on my golf game a bit. Shot my first eagle of the year!!!

 

[Labatts]

BrewGF,
If you bottle the beer try one 3 days post bottling, and another after a week post bottling.

I'll bet after just a few days the beer will be just about crystal clear. After a week it should be as clear as any commercial beer that's if sanitary was good. I can read thru my beers after just 3 days of bottle aging (poured into a pint of course).

I actually like the beer young too, really taste the dry hopping, dry hop usually with 1-2 oz of centennial during secondary fermentation for 5-7 days depending how much lemon head aftertaste I'm in the mood for.

I've even found just throwing a few bottles in the fridge, no cold aging for a couple hours and the beer is just fine.

One of my favorite ways to drink it tho is to pour a warm beer into a wet pint and add 2 ice cubes to the pint. Doesn't water down the beer and when the cubes are melted it's the perfect temp to drink. Will have to say I find myself drinking to many of them this way because it's just too convenient. . .

 

[Labatts]

BrewGF,
It's about a month post brew and curious how ya made out? Hope to hear back from ya soon.

Labatts

 

[brewGF]

Hey Labatt,

My brew turned out just fine. It is very similar to another brew I made, but slightly inferior. I was making a light beer for the Corona drinking crowd and found I didn't like it as much as previous brews. I did use clarity ferm and the beer does not have a noticeable twang. I used US05 yeast, but only one can (3.3lbs) or sorghum syrup. I like using the clarity ferm as I believe it does mitigate the twang, increases shelf-life, and results in a clearer beer !

 

[Labatts]

BrewGf,
What size batch did you brew only using one can of sorghum syrup? What else did you use to increase the OG?

Reason I ask is due to the scaling issues with sorghum in my expirenece. If you made a small batch (2.5 gallons) I have found you will have poor results if you only use 3.3# sorghum. It doesn't scale that easily. I messed around trying to deviate from the 5 gallon batch size with unexpected and unsatisfactory results. I'm curious if you could post your recipe and gravities so we may learn from mistakes possibly made.

On a plus note I'm glad to hear clarity ferm denoted the "twang" and hopefully to your liking.

Hope to hear back soon,
Labatts

 

[brewGF]

There is no reason you can scale up or scale down a recipe - , there is no magic in a 5 gallon batch. Perhaps you used a 5 ga bucket or carboy and it had a lot of empty space where air/oxygen could find its way in?

My beer is 3 weeks bottle conditioned and it is really good. I made it for the Corona drinking crowd more than I made it for myself. I wanted a lighter beer, lower abv, and not a ton of character. Here is the recipe for a 5 gallon batch:

3.3 lbs sorghum syrup
.5 lbs maltodextrin
1 lb d45 candi syrup
5oz honey (mild)
5oz raw, unfiltered buckwheat honey (big flavor and aroma, powerful stuff) late addition at 5 minutes

cascade hops
.5oz 45 minutes
1oz 5minutes
2oz at flameout

US05 yeast
whirlfloc tablet
clarity ferm

OG 1.037
FG 1.009
4% abv

other: I only did a 45 minute boil for this.
Zero twang part probably due to relatively low sorghum use and partly due to clarity ferm.

 

[Labatts]

BrewGF,
That recipe sounds delicious. Never made a brew with OG that low but sounds like a nice light hot summer day drinking beer. The 2 different honeys are making my mouth water. I bet it's as crisp as any beer you will ever find. Great job. Wish I could get buckwheat honey locally. You don't live near NY do you? Lmao!!! I'd love to taste that beer!!!!

As for scaling back I've just not had any luck when using sorghum, candy sugar and Maltodextrine. As for head space maybe just I always make sure my head space is minimal, I use glass marbles to take up any headspace so don't think that was the issue. Probably just being to picky because I like things just the way I like them. Not saying my small batch was a failure just to thin and not as flavorful as the 5 gallon batches.

I strictly use 7.9gallon fast fermenters for all my beer making. Love the ease of use and ability to easily harvest yeast. I made some modifications to mine for dry hopping but leave the carboys for wine.

I'm so happy people are starting to try this method. As the word spreads us gluten free folks will have better and better beers to consume.

Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Just wanted to put a quick disclaimer up.

This info is solely intended for the home brewer and not the commercial Brewers. The intent is to share an idea with people who suffer from illness. This info is not intended for profit. If your intent is to profit from this information please contact me via private message. We are trying to make the world a better place through sharing information and ideas.

 

[brewGF]

Here is a pic of the honey I have been using ...it is very potent and provides a bit of a malty backside.

 

[Labatts]

BrewGF,
Thanks for the pic, found it on amazon. Bit pricey but sounds like a little will go a long way. Added it to my shopping cart for the next time I place an Amazon order.

Thanks again,
Labatts

 

[Labatts]

Been getting great responses from several people using this method. Has anyone tried this method? I would love to hear your feedback good or bad.

Thanks again and love this forum!!!!!
Labatts.

 

[JMath]

I just brewed over the weekend using this method. Nothing fancy, just a standard GF IPA (6.6 lbs sorghum extract, 1 lb D-45, 1 lb buckwheat honey, 0.5 lb maltodextrin, US-05 and 10 mL clarity ferm).

I wanted to keep it simple in order to really get a feel for what the clarity ferm does. One question I had is whether it is necessary to cold crash with the clarity ferm? I imagine it probably does a better job with a cold crash, but wasn't sure.

 

[Labatts]

JMath,

During primary I hold 70F, once I go to secondary I do my best to drop temp to 60-62F however I haven't seen much of a difference except for clearing. Beer clears a bit faster so you can shave off a few days once in secondary/dry hopping.

I prefer to dry hop for the last 3-5 days of secondary just for a nice mild hoppiness. Centennial is my preferred hop here but just my taste. If it's your first time using this method I recommend no dry hopping just so you can taste the difference.

I bottle everything, no keg setup yet . I bottle age minimum 30 days, 60 days is better but have beer aging for 6 months and it came out awesome.

Awesome job JMath and hope to hear back from you once beer has aged. Think your going to be surprised if you had previously brewed a sorghum based beer in the past.

Best of luck,
Labatts

 

[brewGF]

I havent tried a cold crash yet, i just picked up some gelatin so i will give it a go in my next batch with clarity ferm. Is is definitely not necessary.

That's a pretty high Gravity beer you are Brewing. Does one sachet of us 05 get the job done? Or do you need more than one? Do you need to re-yeast at bottling?

 

[JMath]

Thanks. I have the ability to cold crash so I think I might do it anyway, just wanted others' experience. As a side note, I don't plan on transferring to secondary, I will cold crash and dry hop the primary.

brewGF, the starting gravity was 1.067, pretty standard for IPA. The US-05 does fine, but I always rehydrate it and I always use yeast nutrient, plus lots of shaking the fermenter prior to pitching. The recipe is here if you're curious.

 

[brewGF]

Looks like IG's grapefruit IPA recipe. I have made this (w 5 lbs of sorghum syrup only) and it turned out terrific, so I gave your recipe five stars.