How to get these qualities in an IPA?

[eon]

I came up with a recipe for an IPA. I just want to get some opinions before I buy the ingredients. I'm not trying to clone anything but here are my favorite hoppy beers:

Three floyd's Dreadnaught
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/three-floyds-dreadnaught-imperial-ipa/8933/

Two Brother's Hop Juice
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/two-brothers-hop-juice/44597/

Founders Harvest Ale
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/founders-harvest-ale/40277/

Founders Double Trouble (a bit dry but I still enjoy it)
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/founders-double-trouble-ipa/67360/

Three Floyds Broodoo
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/three-floyds-broodoo/55239/

DFH 60 minute IPA
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dogfish-head-60-minute-ipa/7431/

DFH 90 minute IPA
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dogfish-head-90-minute-imperial-ipa/10569/

Southern Tier Unearthly
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/southern-tier-unearthly/56403/

Bells Hopslam
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/bells-hopslam/35488/

Victory Hop wallop
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/victory-hop-wallop/29211/

Ska Brewing Modus Hoperandi
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/ska-modus-hoperandi-ipa/99487/

Here are some IPAs I DON'T really care for:

Bear Republic Racer 5
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/bear-republic-racer-5/1608/

Dark Horse Crooked Tree IPA (YUCK! so, thin, dry, and crisp)
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dark-horse-crooked-tree-ipa/10327/

There are more that I cannot think of!

Like I said I'm not looking for a clone but I guess I would like a little sweet malty goodness in my IPAs. That being said, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the grapefruit, citrus, juicy fruit explosion that you get from awesome IPAs.

Well, here is the recipe I came up with. Will it turn out balanced? My base of DME and Crystal came from Yoopers DFH 60 minute clone. I chose the hops and yeast myself.

Here's the recipe (Done in Beer Calculus so I'm sure the numbers are all wrong!)

EON IPA
----------------------
OG 1.079
FG 1.020

12* SRM

67.0 IBU

BU:GU 0.85

7.9% ABV

3 gallon boil
-----------------------

8 lbs. 8 oz. Light DME
1 lbs. Crystal 40L

1.25 oz. Summit @ 60 minutes
1.00 oz. Centennial @ 15 minutes
1.00 oz. Citra @ 15 minutes
1.00 oz. Cascade @ 5 minutes
1.00 oz. Riwaka @ 5 minutes
1.50 oz. Citra @ 1 minute
1.50 oz. Centennial @ 1 minute
1.00 oz. Centennial (DRY HOP) 7 days in Primary
1.00 oz. Simcoe (DRY HOP) 7 days in Primary
0.50 oz. Cascade (DRY HOP) 7 days in Primary
0.50 oz. Amarillo (DRY HOP) 7 days in Primary

1 tsp. Irish Moss @ 15 minutes

1 packet of Safale us-05 Dry Yeast (Pitch yeast around 70 Degrees)???

Steep the crystal in a grain bag in 2.5 gallons of water at 150-155 degrees for 20 minutes. Remove the grains, and discard them. Stir in
4 lbs. 4 oz. of the DME. Bring water to a boil, add Summit hops, and start my timer. Add all other hops at appropriate times. Add the other 4 lbs. 4 oz. of DME at Flameout.

 

[Yooper]

If you want a more "malt" taste (I'm not sure what it is you like about all the beers you listed- some I've never had), you could try something like using some Munich malt or aromatic malt in with the crystal. Maybe 8-12 ounces of either would give you a stronger hint of a malt backbone.

Since both Munich and aromatic have to be mashed, you can still do it by adding the crystal and Munich to the grain bag, and mash them in 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. You can simply "steep" (which is really a mash) at 150-155 for 45 minutes, then pull up the grain bag and sparge by pouring a gallon of 170 degree water over. You can add water to get to your boil volume, if needed, and proceed. I think that might be what you're looking for in the grain bill.

About the hopping- I've never used riwaka so I don't know what it'll bring to the beer. I like the other hops, but I'm more of a "simple" kind of person with my hopping. I usually stick to three varieties at most. Some go well together, but some may give you just a mish-mash of flavors. Centennial/amarillo/simcoe is a great combo. So is cascade/centennial. If you really want to try all those different hops, that might be a great experiment, but I'd probably be a little more conservative on my first try.

 

[eon]

Thanks Yooper. In the past when I had to mash, people on here told me to add 1 lbs. of 2-row in the mix. So in this case I would put the Crystal 40, Munich, and 2-row in one grain bag and try to keep my temp stable for 45 minutes. Is that correct? Do I need the 2-row? You didn't mention it so now I'm sort of confused. I thought I need the 2-row for conversion.

Thanks for the advice on the hops. As much as I trust your opinion, I wanna see this one through. I read a lot of info on those hops and chose all of them for a reason. Hopefully, I don't waste any money but that's ok! I guess I wanna learn the hard way on this brew

I will ask you this though: How does my choice of hops for dry hopping look? I want to keep all the other hops as is, but do you think if I dry hop with only one variety, it will be less of a mish mash? Thanks for all your help!

 

[eon]

Yooper which beers haven't you heard of? Does Three Floyd's make it up your way? What are some of your favorite Hoppy beers/IPAs?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Yooper. In the past when I had to mash, people on here told me to add 1 lbs. of 2-row in the mix. So in this case I would put the Crystal 40, Munich, and 2-row in one grain bag and try to keep my temp stable for 45 minutes. Is that correct? Do I need the 2-row? You didn't mention it so now I'm sort of confused. I thought I need the 2-row for conversion.

Thanks for the advice on the hops. As much as I trust your opinion, I wanna see this one through. I read a lot of info on those hops and chose all of them for a reason. Hopefully, I don't waste any money but that's ok! I guess I wanna learn the hard way on this brew

I will ask you this though: How does my choice of hops for dry hopping look? I want to keep all the other hops as is, but do you think if I dry hop with only one variety, it will be less of a mish mash? Thanks for all your help!

Well, that's true about PM. Except that Munich malt IS a base malt, so you don't need the 2-row. Unless you want to add it, of course. But it's not necessary- Munich malt can convert itself no problem.

I love the dryhopping- I just did an IPA that used cascade, chinook, and simcoe together for the dryhopping and it was awesome.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper which beers haven't you heard of? Does Three Floyd's make it up your way? What are some of your favorite Hoppy beers/IPAs?

No, no 3 Floyd's here but a friend gave me some to try. I haven't cracked it open yet, but he gave me an IPA and a mild.

My two favorite IPAs are Lakefront's IPA, and Surly Furious. Both are hard to get (well, not the Lakefront for me) because Surly is only distributed around the Twin Cities area in Minnesota. and Lakefront is in Milwaukee. I'm working on a clone of Furious. I made a Lakefront-esque IPA that I loved, and I'll do that one again.

I really like Pliny, Stone Ruination, Bell's, Sierra Nevada's Torpedo, and DFH. I've had some other great ones from the Pacific NW that HBT friends have sent me, but the names escape me right now.

I have only had a few IPAs I haven't liked. Southern Tier's Unearthly was one- it was foul. Maybe a bad bottle? But I didn't like it one bit.

 

[Yooper]

By the way, the Surly I mentioned is something you'd probably really like. It's an "odd" American IPA in that it's pretty malty and uses UK malt and yeast to retain more of the "malt" flavor. It's also got some Munich malt in it, as far as I can tell.

Here's the hopping schedule I'm going to use for my clone:

1.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
1.00 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 57.3 IBU

0.50 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] (20 min) Hops 8.2 IBU
0.50 oz Ahtanum [6.00 %] (20 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (20 min) Hops 11.8 IBU

0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (10 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
0.50 oz Ahtanum [6.00 %] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] (10 min)

2.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops

 

[eon]

Thanks Yooper! I'll be sure to try the surly soon!

 

[jmo88]

67 IBU's seems a little low to me with an OG of 1.079. I'd try to shoot for a BU:GU ratio <1 in an IPA. That's bittering units to gravity units. For instance, I'd hop a 1.079 IIPA to at least 79 IBU's or simply lower the gravity below 1.067.

 

[eon]

WOW! just checked out the surly on ratebeer and I WANT ONE NOW!!! Seems awesome! Thanks for the recommendation Yooper! Hopefully I can get one here in Chicago.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/surly-furious/55798/

 

[eon]

Thanks jm088! somebody else ran my recipe through Beersmith and came out with like 109 IBUs. I use Beer Calculus which doesnt seem to be very accurate. Can another experienced brewer double check for me so I can fix this. Would greatly appreciate it!

 

[eon]

Also, jm088, I just want to mention that my recipe is based off of Yoopers DFH 60 minute clone. I believe hers is around 67 IBUs. I enjoy the real DFH 60 minute so I thought this would be ok. Plus, I think I have more hops in my recipe compared to Yoopers so I thought this might make a difference. Not sure though. I'm still a beginner. Thanks for your input. All information welcome!

 

[jmo88]

Using Tinseth, I got 88 IBU's for this recipe in your original post. Of course that depends on the alpha acid of the hops.

 

[Yooper]

WOW! just checked out the surly on ratebeer and I WANT ONE NOW!!! Seems awesome! Thanks for the recommendation Yooper! Hopefully I can get one here in Chicago.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/surly-furious/55798/

Sorry, no. It's only in the Twin Cities and maybe Duluth. That's why I'm attempting a clone!

I went to the NHC in June, and one of the pre-conference events was a brewery tour/tasting at Surly. I fell in love with their tap room, their brewery, the owners, and their beers. Each beer they make (and they make lots!) is wonderful. They make everything from a great IIPA (Abrasive) to a great mild. They have a coffee stout (Bender, I believe) that is phenomenal.

I went back to Minneapolis in July with Bob, and introduced him to Furious on tap. He became a fan, too. But we have to go back to the Twin Cities to get more! (it's about a 7 hour drive each way, so it's not likely to happen any time soon)

 

[BendBrewer]

For what it is worth, I like to add those final hops after flame out when the wort is 190ish instead of boiling them for a minute.

 

[eon]

Thanks bend, I'll take your advice. usually when my timer goes off, I have my ice bath set up and ready to go. So, When my boil is done, I put my brew pot in the ice bath. WAit until I reach 190 and then dump the hops in? is that that you mean?

 

[eon]

Jm088, here are the AA numbers from rebel brewer where I'll be buying them. I don't know if they will be much help. They are just ranges.

Summit 17-19% AA
Centennial 9.5-11.5% AA
Citra 12-16% AA
Cascade 4.5-7% AA
Riwaka 5-7% AA
Amarillo 8-11% AA

 

[humann_brewing]

just curious, why do you not like Racer 5?

 

[eon]

Hmmmm...Maybe I need to try Racer 5 again. I had it on tap at a local bar here. I just thought it was mostly bitter and not enough flavor. It was quite awhile back. I'll definitely give it another shot. I remember people talked about it all the time and I just wasn't impressed when I tried it.

Sorry I'm so vague. I haven't had it in awhile. I'll try another one (bottle this time) and let you know!

 

[BendBrewer]

Thanks bend, I'll take your advice. usually when my timer goes off, I have my ice bath set up and ready to go. So, When my boil is done, I put my brew pot in the ice bath. WAit until I reach 190 and then dump the hops in? is that that you mean?

Yeah and no need to take a temp reading. I turn the flame off, stick my immersion chiller in it and turn the water on (like you putting it in an ice bath) I give it a minute and dump in my final hops. Then use the IC to 'stir'.

Can't remember who suggested that to me but I really like the results. You might not find the need to dry hop but that is up to the brewer.