How to brew All-grain without a separate mash-tun, and without using BIAB

[norwegianBrewer]

I got tired of doing my brewlog by hand. so I thought i make a blog that contained my log, but then I realized that I could also tell a little of how i do my brews. My equipment is somewhat limited, and therefore, I don't do things a little different.

Hope this can help anyone who is doing the leap from partial mash to all grain

http://brewinginbergen.blogspot.no/2014/05/how-to-brew-all-grain-without-separate.html

 

[masskrug]

Have you ever left the bazooka screen on during the boil to see if it would filter out the hop particles and break material? Would it clog?

 

[norwegianBrewer]

I have done that, yes....once!
It clogs up pretty bad, and took me forever to get the wort out. I had to stir the wort constantly, and even then it barely came out...

Without the filter, it's way better. The first pint or so that comes out, will have hops and trub in it, but after that it runs clear.

 

[ph0ngwh0ng]

I love this KISS method! I think that's what I'll do when winter comes (don't have a garage and -20C isn't a user-friendly temp to brew outside).

Can't help but to point out some thingies that bothered me though (hey, you put it out there )

1. 147.7F is a bit low for mash temp. Now your mash tun/kettle is on the stove. Couldn't you turn on the heat (while stirring, you don't want to scorch the mash) to bring mash temp up. And while you're at it, use the stove to maintain the temp?

2. Do you mash-out (raise the temp of the mash to 170F to deactivate enzymes)? Letting your wort sit in your fermenting bucket for that long will make for really high attenuation, and thus, drier beer.

Cheers!

 

[norwegianBrewer]

1. I agree the mash temp is a bit low, but this is what the recipe says (and it comes straight from the brewery that makes this beer commercially). It says 147.2 to be precise!

2. I do a 2-stage batch-sparge. The sparge water has a temperature of 172 F (It drops a little when mixed with the grains).

 

[johnodon]

I am intrigued also (being a BIAB brewer).

One suggestion...

For the mash I would opt ot use a SS mesh water supply line casing (much like you see in traditional cooler mash tuns). I can't see the bazooka tube doing a very good job at filtering the fine grain particulates.

Prior to transferring teh wort back to the kettle, I would just unscrew the mesh and go back to the bazooka tube for the boil. After all, that really is what it is intended for.

Question: How bad is it handling the hot grain bed when you need to empty the kettle? I know it is bad enough dealing with it in BIAB but I imagine this may be even worse. :S

John

 

[norwegianBrewer]

It's not bad at all.
I use some kitchen towels to lift the kettle, and then just tip the contents into an empty 25 kg / 55 lbs malt sack or similar.
It takes no more than 30 seconds. No burns, no spill, no worries

The bazooka filter doesn't filter the fine grain on it's own. I have to vorlauf properly as well so that the grains do some of the filtering.
Not sure if this is fine enough, but the wort looks ok enough to me on the before/after vorlauf picture

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I personally wont touch one of those braided pieces of junk ever again! A good rigid bazooka, in my experience, works miles better and you'll get far fewer stuck sparges with a properly compacted grain bed. Good vorlauf technique is what really turns your bed into a giant filter.

I'm exclusively all grain but this looks like a great method for some quick 2.5 gallon test batches for my purposes... Thanks OP!

 

[johnodon]

It's not bad at all.
I use some kitchen towels to lift the kettle, and then just tip the contents into an empty 25 kg / 55 lbs malt sack or similar.
It takes no more than 30 seconds. No burns, no spill, no worries

The bazooka filter doesn't filter the fine grain on it's own. I have to vorlauf properly as well so that the grains do some of the filtering.
Not sure if this is fine enough, but the wort looks ok enough to me on the before/after vorlauf picture

Looks great!

My thought is that since you go to the trouble to remove the bazooka anyway to clean it, it may be worth it to have a mesh one just to make your runnings that much clearer.

Of course it is an extra cost but problably only $10 or so if memory serves.

John

 

[johnodon]

I personally wont touch one of those braided pieces of junk ever again! A good rigid bazooka, in my experience, works miles better and you'll get far fewer stuck sparges with a properly compacted grain bed. Good vorlauf technique is what really turns your bed into a giant filter.

Fortunately I am one of those who never had this issue with the braids. Not sure why but I didn't question it.

John

 

[johnodon]

Surprised this thread hasn't blown up. I'm interested in hearing more opinions.

 

[wilserbrewer]

While perhaps not an issue, I feel it is not best practice to use your fermentation bucket to hold the fresh wort. Fresh wort is not sanitary as it has not been boiled, while you likely sanitize your fermenter prior to fermenting, IMHO best not to mix containers between the "hot and cold" side of the brewery. In short, you are contaminating and then sanitizing your fermenter with every brew as the fresh wort contains lactobacillus.

 

[norwegianBrewer]

I sanitize the bucket before i put the wort back in, so I don't think that should be any problem.
Never had any infections doing it this way...

 

[johnodon]

Or just dedicate one bucket for transfer only.

 

[norwegianBrewer]

That is of course also an option.
But I have to say - I can't really see the problems with bacteria, as long as they're gone when I put the wort in for fermentation. After all that's what sanitizing is all about!

 

[Yooper]

That is of course also an option.
But I have to say - I can't really see the problems with bacteria, as long as they're gone when I put the wort in for fermentation. After all that's what sanitizing is all about!

Sure, but "sanitizing" isn't "sterilizing" and fresh wort WILL introduce lactobacillus. That's why brewers don't crush grain where they ferment, for example- not because they don't sanitize but because it's an easy way for lactobacillus to take hold.

I would just use something else for holding unboiled wort- it doesn't matter what it is as long as it's food grade.

 

[norwegianBrewer]

Sure, but sanitizing will get rid of most of it. Enough for it not to take control.
In my home environment, keeping everything sterile is impossible. Bacteria will be in the thousands just in the air-particles that will land in the wort while i transfer it.

But of course, keeping a seperate bucket for this is no problem at all. I have 4 buckets, so shouldn't be a problem dedicating one of them for this.
But better yet, will be to make myself a mash-tun, cause then I can transfer it directly back into the boil kettle.

 

[ph0ngwh0ng]

Sure, but sanitizing will get rid of most of it. Enough for it not to take control.
In my home environment, keeping everything sterile is impossible. Bacteria will be in the thousands just in the air-particles that will land in the wort while i transfer it.

But of course, keeping a seperate bucket for this is no problem at all. I have 4 buckets, so shouldn't be a problem dedicating one of them for this.
But better yet, will be to make myself a mash-tun, cause then I can transfer it directly back into the boil kettle.

In french, we call that "tenter le démon", or "tempting the devil", in english.

Let's just say that we'll have earned the right to say "we told you so." if infection does happen. Although I would tend to think that even if lactobacillus is in there, it does not have enough time to reproduce enough before you sanitize the bucket to be a threat.

BTW, I admire the way you're holding the fort, calmly, against criticism about your process. Very RDWHAHB. Like I said, your way is simple, clever, and a very low cost way to do all-grain brewing. No process is perfect. Even if you have all the gear and space available, there will always be some unknown that will spoil your fun one time or another. But, that's part of the fun of (home)brewing.

Cheers! Keep on brewin'!

 

[norwegianBrewer]

I appreciate the warning. So far I have not had any infections, and I've done 14 brews this way.
None of them have had any lactic acid taste to them either. I've had that in some earlier extract brews though.

I accept criticism. Anything that can make me better at what I do, is great!
As you say, there will always be something that can spoil the fun, and it would be best to minimize all those fun-spoiling factors.

 

[Justdrumin]

This is very similar to the method I plan to do in the future when I can finally afford to buy a bigger brew kettle. Great tutorial too!! Deathbrewer has a great method as well in his easy stove top all grain brewing thread. The only difference is he does a dunk sparge, he doesn't vorlauf because he uses a bag, and there is no need to transfer your runnings to a bucket because you dunk sparge in your brew kettle. He says he frequently gets efficiencies in the 70% range using this method. http://https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

What kind of efficiencies are you getting with your method?

 

[norwegianBrewer]

This is very similar to the method I plan to do in the future when I can finally afford to buy a bigger brew kettle. Great tutorial too!! Deathbrewer has a great method as well in his easy stove top all grain brewing thread. The only difference is he does a dunk sparge, he doesn't vorlauf because he uses a bag, and there is no need to transfer your runnings to a bucket because you dunk sparge in your brew kettle. He says he frequently gets efficiencies in the 70% range using this method. http://https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

What kind of efficiencies are you getting with your method?

That method looks interesting. I would need a bigger second kettle though, as the one i have is not close to being 5 gallons

I'm getting around 70% efficiency as well.