how to add on brewery to existing restaurant

[mandoman]

All of the environmental/water stuff goes through the ttb. Given that we're a 1 bbl system and recycling most of the yeast I don't think our impact is going to be that great. But that's not for me to decide and I'm not sure who actually decides - only the ttb ask for the info, the state does not. I heard about several breweries whose yeast dump was their biggest environmental impact of concern. According to 5 star, pbw and star san are completely safe for municipalities - it's the septic tanks that can be affected. 5star has impact statements for all of their products on their website.

Plus, I assume you could just kill the yeast before flushing to avoid metabolic contamination or oxygen depletion or whatever the problem may be.

I'm sure this issue will come up and I'll post.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Congrats! I travel through VA at least once a year. I'm not sure if I come close to your area, but the next time I'm down that way, I'll be sure to make your brewery a stop on my itinerary.

 

[Sean]

On a good note, our giant blichmann kettles came yesterday and they are indeed sweet.

pics? if you have time..

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Another vote of confidence! You are doing awesome!!!!!!

 

[Sean]

You mentioned a cooler for mashing, what will you use for fermenting?

 

[sethful]

hey man.. I just found this thread in my 'new posts.'

Good to hear that you have made the next step with your hobby!!

It'd be awesome to see some pics of your setup if you have some time

Keep up the good work

 

[mandoman]

awesome to see some more posts here! We just finished coating the floor in the brewery and will be moving stuff in this week. Once we have it set up I'll take some pics and post.

We'll be fermenting in 44 gallon brute containers for now. they're cheap, available at home depot, and food grade. Next choice, but twice as expensive, are 110 gallon plastic conicals so i can double batch to fermenter and dump yeast rather than siphon. We're sticking with the uber frugal approach for now. Quality control/sanitation is an issue but when isn't it? I will be pumping from boil/chill to fermenters, pumping to second brutes for dry hopping (or not depending on recipe) and then pumping from fermenter to keg. The brewery is keeping temp. at 65 so I can't cold condition but will have good fermentation temps for our yeasts (primarily wlp001 for now).

Tomorrow I'm supposed to schedule my personal interview with ttb.

 

[magnj]

Sounds awesome, so jealous. Will you have help brewing or will it be a one man show?

 

[mandoman]

We made it through the ttb and are now waiting on the virginia abc to process our license.

In the meantime we're testing the equipment at the brewery. To summarize: 275 sq ft building (16X18 inside). Sink, hot water heater, cement floor (no drain). Window and door. First pic is outside shot (nice awning, eh?). Second is shot of our first addition - the hotel/motel hvac unit that keeps the brewery at 65F in the 90 heat. Third shot shows the brewhouse. 30 G blichmann HLT, 41 gallon cooler MLT, 55 gal boil kettle. March pump and therminator. Fermenting in the 44 gal BRUTE rubbish bins.

 

[mandoman]

Some more pics showing the actual brew. First is milled grains using barley crusher and power drill. Not bad, really. 84 lb grist for india brown ale. Second is another of the brewhouse. Third shows heating of strike water. Took about 1 hr to heat 30 gallons from 100 to 170 using an sq14 (will be replaced by natural gas ring soon). Fourth shows vourlafing.

 

[mandoman]

Forgot a pic of doughing in (w/mash hop - why not?). CLose to boil and boil over. Hey, I needed to break in the blichmann. Last brew was an easy no boil over with spray bottle.

Did second brew today, our flagship american pale ale. Went well. This time I didn't use hop bags and got a great hop cone (pellets) after a whirlpool (manual).

I also am taking off all the q/ds from the pump system - they slow it down too much.

More to come. Questions?

Chris

 

[carnevoodoo]

Cost vs. return on this?

 

[KYB]

Awesome. Good luck with it.

 

[Edcculus]

Freaking awesome! Congrats on the project.

I only have 4 words. The obligatory "you suck" and "foam control". Good luck!

 

[mandoman]

carnevoodoo - if you have to ask you'll never know. I have a lot of hard work invested in the biz plan, market research, etc.

Let's just say this is our experiment. My projections show our investment returned within six months. The glass ceiling will actually support my salary and a small return for the investors but the idea is to test the waters and then expand.

 

[mandoman]

edcculus - thanks for the post - you've been a big help to me on hbt.

Haven't made the leap to fermcap yet but I may, indeed. It's pretty intimidating to watch 40 come gallons start to come at you.

 

[carnevoodoo]

carnevoodoo - if you have to ask you'll never know. I have a lot of hard work invested in the biz plan, market research, etc.

Let's just say this is our experiment. My projections show our investment returned within six months. The glass ceiling will actually support my salary and a small return for the investors but the idea is to test the waters and then expand.

Actually, if I feel like asking it is because I am interested in knowing. I haven't done the research at that level, but it is a concept that I want to know more about. So really, I would like to know.

It is good that you have it all worked out though. Good luck.

 

[LakeErieBrew]

Awesome Chris! Thanks for the pics.

Do you plan to keg and self-distribute?

 

[mandoman]

carne - my bad, there are a lot of naysayers out there who will tell you that you can't do this for less than 250K and I've had a lot of discouragement. I can see that side, too. I'm happy to share with y'all hbt'ers what I've learned. It's really been like doing my dissertation all over again. Shoot me a PM or post on this thread. Like I said earlier, it keeps me going when it gets frustrating. I mean, hey, we're homebrewers.

Erie - keg only for now. We can't self-distribute in virginia, so basically we have to pay a 25% markup to an intermediate distributor/wholesaler who is allowed to sell directly to the retailers (restaurants, grocery stores). We have an extra license (or will have) that allows us to fill growlers at the brewery and sell/rent kegs but only to individuals, not to businesses. Craft beer kegs retail around here for around $65 (the restaurant pays the wholesaler) so that means I only get around $50 for it from the wholesaler. The nice thing is I don't have to spend $$ on gas, vehicle, employee, whatever. Bad part is the lost $$. This is also why more sane people do brewPUBS, cuz you're making $4 a pint or closer to $200 for a 5 gallon keg.

Chris

 

[ClaudiusB]

Chris awesome.
Good luck with it your brewery.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Let's just say this is our experiment. My projections show our investment returned within six months. The glass ceiling will actually support my salary and a small return for the investors but the idea is to test the waters and then expand.

Great thread and thank you for sharing the journey with us. I'm impressed and I truly wish you the best. The next couple of years is going to be very tough and if you can make it through, you know you can get through anything.

 

[Edcculus]

edcculus - thanks for the post - you've been a big help to me on hbt.

Haven't made the leap to fermcap yet but I may, indeed. It's pretty intimidating to watch 40 come gallons start to come at you.

You won't regret it. It might help you to cram a little more into the fermenters too. I don't know how much you are putting in vs. head space. With fermcap, you might be able to produce a little bit more each batch and not worry about blowoff in the fermenter.

 

[LakeErieBrew]

Erie - keg only for now. We can't self-distribute in virginia, so basically we have to pay a 25% markup to an intermediate distributor/wholesaler who is allowed to sell directly to the retailers (restaurants, grocery stores). We have an extra license (or will have) that allows us to fill growlers at the brewery and sell/rent kegs but only to individuals, not to businesses. Craft beer kegs retail around here for around $65 (the restaurant pays the wholesaler) so that means I only get around $50 for it from the wholesaler. The nice thing is I don't have to spend $$ on gas, vehicle, employee, whatever. Bad part is the lost $$. This is also why more sane people do brewPUBS, cuz you're making $4 a pint or closer to $200 for a 5 gallon keg.

Chris

This confirms what I've calculated on my pro-formas. In order to achieve the desired return (for me) at my estimated production level, I would need to sell the majority at retail. In order to achieve the required return at wholesale prices, I would need a HUGE increase in production level. This means larger upfront capital expense, more space required, etc.

There's alot of planning involved with doing something like this. I imagine it has been a lot of work. It looks like you're doing a great job so far.

 

[mandoman]

First 3 test/experimental batches through the system. My water needed calcs were off, I didn't lose near what I would expect. No biggie and easy fix. One of the three batches smells a bit off in the fermenter and I was anticipating the open tops on the brute bins might invite too many outsiders. Also, my yeast pitch was a day late in the mail and the wort sat in the fermenter for about a day before I pitched. And, of course, it could be too early in the process. I racked the first beer to dry hops in a secondary and it smelled/tasted great and finished right at 1.012. Brewing big batches (relative to my usual ten gallons) is so freakin' awesome I want to do it every day. Of course, ask me in six months if I'm sick of it yet.

 

[sethful]

Good job!!
what kind of brews did you make?

 

[zac]

Mando,
If you needed cali ale, I could have provided!

I fianally found this thread, I knew it had to be here somewhere...

Congrats. Holler if I can help in any way.

Check out the Harvest Table in Meadowview. http://www.meadowviewfarmersguild.com/

VERY good pizza, VERY good cheese plate, VERY good tomato salad, decent selection of local brews, always room for more brews!

 

[mandoman]

just updating to see if anyone is still interested.

We got our state brewery license this week, a huge milestone and we're almost a 'real' brewery (albeit the smallest in Virginia - our abc agent actually said he'd never seen anything like this before). Next up we need approval for our retail state license which will allow us to sell/fill growlers straight from the brewery and sell kegs to individuals. No biggie.

We also need to get 'labels' for our kegs which are keg collars with the gov't warnings, volume, our brewery name and address on them. These have to be approved by ttb which will take several weeks. Since we're not bottling these labels are just to appease the ttb so not much planning.

We're upping our productivity to a little over 2 bbls a week from here on out so we can maintain a minimum line for 3 or 4 local restaurants. We'll add more as we see what the demand is and increase our production.

Crazy

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Sounds like things are moving forward. Keep up the good work.

 

[skiingimpy]

I'm insanely jealous. I hope to get to where you are one day. I'm also upset that I had to go and graduate (tech '09) and move back home to colorado before you opened up. The next time I get back to the area I'll definitely have to come down and check you out.

Good Luck

 

[bdnoona]

Glad to hear the progress. Please continue with the updates. Some of us dream of something like this some day.