How much maltodextrin should I add?

[dawn_kiebawls]

A couple months ago I brewed a golden sour, pitched ECY Bugfarm2 and a couple various dregs. I transferred to a secondary today because I needed the fermentor (transfer did not go well at all, so hopefully it's not going to turn to vinegar...) Anyway, it's already at 1.002 so I'm concerned the bugs wont have anything to work on to actually turn it sour. It currently has next to zero Brett character and even less sourness (I know it's still very early, but there is very little food left for anything to nom on). As of now it is a great Saison, but that wasn't the goal...

So, I'd like to add some MD to secondary for the bugs to work on throughout the next 10+ months but I don't know how much I should add. I like really sour beers.

Thanks again for any and all help. cheers!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would suggest you first allow the Brettanomyces flavor to develop, which does not require fermentable sugar.

When it reaches the desirable level of Brett flavor, then you can add MD if needed. 10-20 g/L is appropriate.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

I would suggest you first allow the Brettanomyces flavor to develop, which does not require fermentable sugar.

When it reaches the desirable level of Brett flavor, then you can add MD if needed. 10-20 g/L is appropriate.

Thanks for the help! I completely forgot Brett eats more than just long and short dextrin chains to do what it does. I will definitely let it hang out for another couple months before I start working on the sour part.

I'm brewing a Flanders Red tomorrow or Tuesday so I will take what I learned from this batch and tweak my process a little bit. Thanks again, cheers!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

There's no pedio in that blend, only lacto. There's also Lachancea thermotolerans which I have no idea about. What was your hop schedule?

Edit: I just noticed you also added various dregs. There's probably something in there that can sour, even with hops present.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

There's no pedio in that blend, only lacto. There's also Lachancea thermotolerans which I have no idea about. What was your hop schedule?

Edit: I just noticed you also added various dregs. There's probably something in there that can sour, even with hops present.

This batch is 14 IBUs and I'm glad you mentioned the hop schedule because I just realized I forgot to post the hops in the recipe!

Good catch on the bug blend! I noticed a couple weeks into primary that there wasn't any Pedio (I ordered Bugfarm, Bugfarm2 and BugCountry and got them mixed up on brew day) and as soon as I realized that I added the dregs from a bottle of Boulevards Lovechild and from a bottle of Jester Kings WytchCraft shortly after. So, there should be some hop tolerant bugs to sour as soon as I feed them some extra food. Cheers!

 

[sweetcell]

this brew is only 2 months old? that's not enough time for most bretts to express themselves. give it 6-9 months and then give it a try. as RPh mentioned, brett doesn't need sugars to do its work. brett gonna brett.

Lachancea thermotolerans is a sacch-like yeast that can produce acidity. it creates sourness mostly by fermenting simple sugars, which are consumed early in the fermentation. so if your brew isn't sour yet, then the ship has sailed for lachancea. you'll need to lean on pedio, and possibly a lacto, for sourness. if/when you add MD, i can't hurt to include some simple sugar (like plain ol' white sugar). lacto or lachancea might have a chance to fermenting that before the brett gets to it - depending how active the brett is at that time.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

I'm not quite ready to add any MD quite yet, as it's still only been a little over 3 months and I still haven't pulled a sample (I'll give it another month or two). But I do have another, sort of irrelevant question for @sweetcell and @RPh_Guy - when I transferred this it was at 1.002, then there seemed to be another fermentation after the dregs I pitched so I'm almost positive this thing is sub-zero by now.

Does Brett continue to produce CO2 after all the fermentable foods are gone while it's eating everything else in sight? (forgive me, but I can't think of the other 'things' Brett eats. I just know it's ravenous and noms on everything) There's no real reason I'm asking, I've just been noticing positive pressure and occasional burps from the airlock which got me wondering. My thoughts are: it's still just off-gassing, something is still at work in there producing CO2 (which is where my question came from), there is a very slight temperature change affecting it or a combination of above options...or something I still don't understand.

Thanks again, cheers!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm almost positive this thing is sub-zero by now.

You may be surprised.

Does Brett continue to produce CO2 after all the fermentable foods are gone while it's eating everything else in sight?

Nope. However, it's normal for CO2 release to continue for a long time after fermentation completes.

Cheers

 

[sweetcell]

what RPh said.

i'll add that i'm not familiar with all of brett's metabolic pathways, but i believe that the fermentation of sugars, starches and other carbohydrates is the only way for brett (and sacch) to product CO2 (and ethanol). so your beer is indeed still off-gazing, but not because something is fermenting necessarily - it could just be the beer slowly reaching equilibrium with the outside world. pressure is slightly higher inside your secondary vessel and it's slowly finding its way out.