How much extra would you pay to support a LHBS

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I live 30 minutes from 3 locally owned shops. One has the best prices but the only employee that knows anything about brewing is the owner and he is not always there. My favorite shop is a little more expensive but he is an experienced brewer. When I have questions he always offers me multiple options as potential solutions. He has a very small store but the service is great. I can email a recipe and he has everything ready when I show up.
 
OpenSights said:
Do they ship to you Tom? My old LHBS would ship, but they were 3 minutes away, 5 with traffic or if you had to stop at the light.

Other than deals on Craigslist I bought everything from them unless they didn’t carry it. They were open for 23 years. About two or three years ago we had 4 LHBS. The competition between them and the internet closed all but one. So I’m hell bent on keeping them open!

Our club now meets at the remaining one, along with another club, just different night. The owner is a great guy and anytime I stop in I always buy something even if I don’t really need it anytime soon. Honestly, I’ve only bought 1 55# bag of 2 row and 15# DME online only because they were insane deals.

I don’t shop there as much as my old store simply because of distance, not that it’s that far, 20-25 minutes.
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They do ship. But I try to plan ahead and get enough for several beers. I’ve only had them ship 1 small box USPS flat rate.
Great service at Arctic Brewing.
 
Briess 2 row is about $31 plus freight from most distributors.

I'd consider 35 dollars for a 50lb bag giving it away
40 dollars is an excellent price
45 dollars is a good price
50 dollars. I'll buy it without complaining
63 dollars, which is what I was quoted yesterday is asinine. Oh, dont forget the 200 dollars for 50lbs DME
 
I forgot to mention, my store that closed was also a hangout spot for a lot of us. They had a table and chairs, pretzels, 7 tap keezer filled with their store made extract kits, kegs of wine and tasting glasses. It was like our own little Cheers! We’d sit around talk beer, personal lives, good times!

I miss that place!
 
Define local. If there was one in my town, and they carried a good stock I’d buy most supplies there. Equipment might depend on price and lead time but since most prices on name brands are fixed probably just the latter.

But my localish options are 30-60 minutes and none are places I’m consistently near. If I make a special trip it involves time, gas, and probably dinner out so I’m a lot more inclined to buy online.
 
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mine has decent prices.
I'll but 50lb bags of grain for $50-$55 from them.
I but hops and yeast also for one-offs.

but every once in a while i'll find a deal where if I buy so much grain it's free shipping and I can get multiple types in 10lb bags.
So yeah I buy that but i'm talking wheat, pils, and two-row.
I still go to them for other grains.

I also buy hops in bulk when on sale.

their equipment prices are actually just a few $$ more than amazon so i buy buckets and consumables and DME from them also.

I like the owner.
He is smarter than me.
on a few occasions I placed orders on the internet and told him he can just throw it all in one bag.
He insists on separate bags.

Saved me twice because I somehow looked at my order in black and white and still ordered the wrong stuff. LOL!

were it all in one bag, i'm not sure what I would of ended up with.
 
Still Brewn said:
No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.
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100% is pretty average. It seems some businesses have forgotten the goal is profit, not sales.

But back on topic. If I had a LHBS I'd probably do most of my shopping with them. Between 10-20% probably is reasonable. Anymore though, local prices are pretty competitive with online stores.
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
These quotes are high (IMO ridiculous). 2 row from Briess is what? $30 to 35?

I know folks have to put food on their tables, but it's my choice if I help them or not. Businesses are in business to take our money, it's our job to keep our money. This is why I participate in group grain purchases.

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

Please, no flames, evil looks, etc as I realize and acknowledge the costs of doing business. However, there are better methods than stiffing people.
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It is unreasonable to compare a business run out of your house, doing whatever it was you did, and a business that rents a storefront, has employees and has to maintain inventory of products on the shelves.

Consider as well that a five percent markup on a $30 sack of grain is $1.50. Kinda hard to just pay expenses on $1.50 unless the store sells at a high volume which is generally not the case for most local shops.
 
For me the answer is = it depends.... I used to have a LHBS that was pretty close, great service, and decent prices. I moved.

My close by local, now, is more wine with beer as a sideline. So they get my wine business. The first time I went there was before moving here. They had grain bins and it was self service. But they gave you a cart with a scale and plastic bags. They wanted you to measure out exactly in one pound increments. I didn't catch on and had things like 1.1 pound and 2.25 pounds. The owner griped but rounded to the pound. Also I opened a couple of bins and got a face full of moths flying out of the container. They now have all the grains in bags. 50 lb, 10 lb and 1 lb.

The better LHBS is about 30 miles away so I don't get there often.

As to how much more I would spend, again it depends. Is it needed now for a brew day? How much more. 10 - 15% seems reasonable. But many times it is less expensive at the LHBS. Like 50 pound sacks. I know you can order five 10 pound bags (Morebeer?) with free shipping. But?? Haven't tried or compared prices. Anywhere else shipping is a killer.

To the guy that thinks 5% is a good markup over wholesale, what world are you living in? You tried that out of your house. No employee wage fees, little if any overhead figured into that. Probably no credit card fees. No taxes. No store or warehouse maintenance....

In a brick and mortar store or even online only you wouldn't last long....

My first job in 1971, the standard mark up was 30%
 
I like my LHBS. Grain by the ounce/pound and she stocks basically everything. Hops are around $2/ounce, up to $3+ for the usual suspects. Base malts are $1.76/pound and specialty malts run $1.94 to $2.30/pound, but you buy and pay for what you need. I buy all my grain there on principal, and she's active and supports my local club as well. At the end of the day, a 5g batch runs $20 to $30. I'm also in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, so those prices are going to be on the high end, because rent, etc. tend to be pricey here. It's all of 5 miles from my house and my job, so the convenience factor is huge, as is the ability to buy 2 ounces of chocolate malt.
 
Since I am a weirdo who uses organics instead of sprayed grain, hops and DME, I am forced to order online and pick it up off my front porch at a considerable savings.
I know there is the overhead of a store but there is also a wholesale price to that store and also a shipping discount they enjoy.
For example for me to buy a 5 gallon bucket is more online due to shipping then for a store. Yet that store gets a volume discount, shipping discount and is asking the same price but I have to drive to get it, wait in line while the clerk B.S's with friends. OR order online, in seconds, and go out to my porch and bring it in.
 
mirthfuldragon said:
I like my LHBS. Grain by the ounce/pound and she stocks basically everything. Hops are around $2/ounce, up to $3+ for the usual suspects. Base malts are $1.76/pound and specialty malts run $1.94 to $2.30/pound, but you buy and pay for what you need. I buy all my grain there on principal, and she's active and supports my local club as well. At the end of the day, a 5g batch runs $20 to $30. I'm also in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, so those prices are going to be on the high end, because rent, etc. tend to be pricey here. It's all of 5 miles from my house and my job, so the convenience factor is huge, as is the ability to buy 2 ounces of chocolate malt.
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Can I ask where you shop at? Sounds like a place I want to go to.
 
Bubbles2 said:
Since I am a weirdo who uses organics instead of sprayed grain, hops and DME, I am forced to order online and pick it up off my front porch at a considerable savings.
I know there is the overhead of a store but there is also a wholesale price to that store and also a shipping discount they enjoy.
For example for me to buy a 5 gallon bucket is more online due to shipping then for a store. Yet that store gets a volume discount, shipping discount and is asking the same price but I have to drive to get it, wait in line while the clerk B.S's with friends. OR order online, in seconds, and go out to my porch and bring it in.
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I’m going to share a quote from a good friend of mine. Basically the the the thread was about what what kids today will not and cannot experience what we did as kids. Mostly summertime activities. Roaming the town unsupervised, stupid stuff with our bikes... pranks... anyhow here’s a post by my buddy quoting me.

If this is considered off topic, mod’s please delete.

Point of this post is primarily to illustrate online vs. brick and mortar and what we are loosing as a society. Enjoy, hopefully....

“Originally Posted by OpenSights
Isn’t that sad that our society is isolating itself? Generally speaking I think it’s because of political correctness. In today’s society you don’t want to offend your neighbor by whatever and cause a possible continuous feud and than no one’s happy.

What we lack is the ability to accept other people’s views and opinions, well, at least some don’t. I don’t want to have to move this to the P&R section, so I’ll stop here.

Point of my post is the community I live in now. I know most of my neighbors and have good relationships with all that I know. My family has hung out with many of them, even hosted a brew day. My newest neighbors seem friendly, had a brief conversation Friday.”

SRDH:
“I believe it is just 1 part of a much grander scheme the government is trying to pull...technology has let us make contact with each other by staying away...texting has taken away social skills and the ability to interact on a face to face basis, and its only going to get worse...
you dont have to leave your house ever...if you work at home online, you can order all your food online and delivered as well as any product you need, you do all your mailing and business through..online...we have become prisoners by our own hand...can or will we learn from that?? that is the important question..”

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f13/i-m-so-old-when-i-kid-84666/
 
OpenSights said:
I’m going to share a quote from a good friend of mine. Basically the the the thread was about what what kids today will not and cannot experience what we did as kids. Mostly summertime activities. Roaming the town unsupervised, stupid stuff with our bikes... pranks... anyhow here’s a post by my buddy quoting me.

If this is considered off topic, mod’s please delete.

Point of this post is primarily to illustrate online vs. brick and mortar and what we are loosing as a society. Enjoy, hopefully....

“Originally Posted by OpenSights
Isn’t that sad that our society is isolating itself? Generally speaking I think it’s because of political correctness. In today’s society you don’t want to offend your neighbor by whatever and cause a possible continuous feud and than no one’s happy.

What we lack is the ability to accept other people’s views and opinions, well, at least some don’t. I don’t want to have to move this to the P&R section, so I’ll stop here.

Point of my post is the community I live in now. I know most of my neighbors and have good relationships with all that I know. My family has hung out with many of them, even hosted a brew day. My newest neighbors seem friendly, had a brief conversation Friday.”

SRDH:
“I believe it is just 1 part of a much grander scheme the government is trying to pull...technology has let us make contact with each other by staying away...texting has taken away social skills and the ability to interact on a face to face basis, and its only going to get worse...
you dont have to leave your house ever...if you work at home online, you can order all your food online and delivered as well as any product you need, you do all your mailing and business through..online...we have become prisoners by our own hand...can or will we learn from that?? that is the important question..”

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f13/i-m-so-old-when-i-kid-84666/
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Irony~
 
OpenSights said:
Yep. Society has degraded. Once it was FTF and a handshake. Now we hardly communicate other than text, email and voicemail, oh and pm. Society has little social skill anymore.
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When I pick my kids up at their mom's and they are around the corner with neighborhood kids I don't mind waiting one bit at all.

I agree with you. the shop owner near me does everything right but he's stiff around people.
looks to be early 30's.
his dad is late 50's and very personable and will talk your ear off and is knowledgeable.
He did an internship at a local brewery and always asks what I got going on beer wise.

it's one of the reasons I go.
 
Fwiw....
I have found that my little lhbs about 10 mins away has a small selection of liquid yeast... but very fresh yeast. Like 30 days or less fresh. I will happily pay them a good markup (10-25% or more!) to know the date before i buy. Plus factor in shipping and cool packs and it's sometimes a better deal! I did use them for "emergency" grain (bought their 2-row so i could mill it their) when i was getting my mill set up but it was very costly.

Now i will digress....

My favorite lhbs (before i moved) started way back in a guy's shed, behind his house. They promised fresh when all others sold stale. They expanded. They started welding their own kettles, conicals, and the like. They expanded again. They helped launch the careers of some home-brewers turned pro. They made kits with these people. They got the actual recipies from these brewers to provide exact home brew clones. They hired friendly people and gave great service. They started a catalouge and started shipping. They built a website with all kinds of free resources. They expanded again. They added a warehouse on the East coast to help get people fresh ingredients faster. All from some dudes who started a little lhbs in a shed in the backyard. Walk in their original showroom and it does not feel like a national company.

-Amazon is putting WalMart out of buisness
-walmart put Kmart out of buisness
-kmart put sears out of buisness
-sears, roebuck, and co mail order put the main st. general store out buisness
(I am sure i missed a few in between but you get the point).

I cannot wait to see what WILL put Amazon out of buisness. It WILL happen. 20 years, maybe a litrle more, maybe a little less.
God Bless Sam Walton, Sears and Roebuck, and even, yes, Bezos... for although each of these buisnesses shut down those before it (who, in turn, had shut down thoose before that), they all innovated a better mousetrap. Or a better way to sell the mousetraps at least.

Walmart employees a lot of people. So does Amazon. So too did Kmart and sears. So too will the next big craze. Distribution center workers, truck drivers, general managers, district managers, logostic coordinators, marketing, hr, legal... lots and lots and lots and lots of people get jobs from these companies.

As mentioned before in this thread, service will trump almost always. If a lhbs provides great service then it will win. (If you are ever up in NorCal Redding walk into NorCal Brewing and try not to talk to Jay!). Service is what made Morebeer so big. Service is what made NorthernBrewer so big.
When a company does something great, one of two things happens. It starts to scale, and eventually becomes a mega player- and all that comes with it too. Or it stays small and hyper focused on what it does very well. I do not see any issues with either choice.
Sometimes, often, the ones trying to scale fail. Sometimes the specialty ones fail too.
In the small town where i grew up my favorite local lumber yard/ hardware store closed a few years after home depot opened. Because the owner got divorced. He had to sell. (Oh, and this "local" guy had put the other, smaller, true value store under a few years before that).

I love shopping local whenever i can. I also work. Often i cant make it in by 6. If a local shop is open later, i go. Sometimes it seems like they do not want my buisness.

That's all. Soapbox put away.
Happy brewing all!!
 
I will gladly pay a little extra at my local shop. The staff are very knowledgeable and willing to take time and answer customer questions. The advice and service were very helpful to me when I was just starting out. I had no experience and nobody to teach me.
They have an excellent supply of everything needed for beer and wine. Ingredients and equipment. They have a grain room where I can weigh and grind my own grain of they will do it for their customers if they are not comfortable doing it themselves.
Yes, I will pay more for the level of customer service I get when I walk into their shop. Something that is seriously lacking in most retail businesses today.
 
The LHBS I use typically is $0.20/lb cheaper on base malts; i.e. 2 row, M.O., Vienna but $0.20/lb higher on the specialty grains. Yeast and hops prices are similar.
 
it is 30 miles to the nearest LHBS going south, and 45 miles going north. I would love to shop at either location, but the cost of gas in a F250 just makes it cost prohibitive a lot of times. I have to co-ordinate my trips to the LHBS with other trips in those areas....so I shop on line a lot.

The LHBS south is a attached to a smokehouse/pub, so it is a great place to go....
 
I've been supporting the "local" LHBS that is 30 miles away. I usually time my purchase with work trips into the city. Or I place an order online with them and ask my wife to pick it up on her way home. For grains, I'm paying somewhere between 20-40% more per pound before shipping charges are applied from online stores. Yeast and other hardgoods are on par or 5-10% cheaper. It's hard to compare with shipping charges with online retailers offering flat rate or free shipping on larger orders. I don't always want to wait to build up an order large enough to get free shipping. The service at the LHBS store is great. I do have to plan ahead and let them know in advance if I'm looking for non-stock liquid yeast. In the last 6 years, we've had 3 stores open and 2 close. I'm willing to pay more for the convenience, to keep them open for myself & regional homebrewing community.
 
I went to buy grains last night on a east coast website, $21 in grains, $16 to ship. No thanks. Theres 4 LHBS in my county alone, and another half dozen across the Bay at least. I question the freshness of some products at some of them and knowledge at others, but overall its better than ordering online for me
 
lump42 said:
I've been supporting the "local" LHBS that is 30 miles away. I usually time my purchase with work trips into the city. Or I place an order online with them and ask my wife to pick it up on her way home. For grains, I'm paying somewhere between 20-40% more per pound before shipping charges are applied from online stores. Yeast and other hardgoods are on par or 5-10% cheaper. It's hard to compare with shipping charges with online retailers offering flat rate or free shipping on larger orders. I don't always want to wait to build up an order large enough to get free shipping. The service at the LHBS store is great. I do have to plan ahead and let them know in advance if I'm looking for non-stock liquid yeast. In the last 6 years, we've had 3 stores open and 2 close. I'm willing to pay more for the convenience, to keep them open for myself & regional homebrewing community.
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Your post got me thinking... how many times have i loaded up my cart to qualify for "free" shipping when a trip to lhbs may have saved me money? Good point!
 
Nate R said:
Your post got me thinking... how many times have i loaded up my cart to qualify for "free" shipping when a trip to lhbs may have saved me money? Good point!
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Yeah if it's just ingredients for a batch or two, doesn't qualify for free shipping, and I'm paying actual or flat rate shipping, it's usually same price or cheaper to go to the LHBS.
 
For me it is 34 miles to my preferred LHBS. So 68 miles round trip. My car gets 28 on a trip like that so I would use 2.43 gallons of gas. $2.29/gal today - very low.. That is about $5.56 for gas, normal would be over $6. That doesn't include wear and tear on the car. That is not to far from most flat rate shipping charges.. It also doesn't cover the 3 hours that I could be doing something more fun... Like brewing... For me it is a toss up.
 
Generally speaking I am always willing to pay more to support local business. I don't do Amazon or Walmart for ethical reasons. I am fortunate to live in a large metropolitan area with a wide variety of small/local businesses that I can support. I don't know how things would change for me if I didn't.
 
I have 2 in my area. I used to go to one of them until every grain cost $3 a lb which is just too expensive when there's so many options to pay much less. Now, my club is hosted at a brewery and we can get bulk buys easily for much less. The other shop was just run into the ground by owners that wanted to pursue other avenues within the beer industry.

I'll go to the lhbs if I need fresh yeast, or a little specialty grain for a recipe I'm brewing that day. I like the owners of the one I go to still but the prices are too rich for my blood.... Again, $3 a lb for base malt and everything else.

There used to be a shop, back when I first got into homebrewing, that was an 'over the river-through the woods' kind of trek to the place. At the time it felt right to have that kind of a drive to a homebrew shop but then they moved to a strip mall. They're still there but I have moved and now it makes no sense to go that far.

I get rent just keeps going up but shops do have to complete with online stores which I don't think is really doable; at least in my area. I love a good brick and mortar shop though. It's just hard to support it with a house, wife, and kids.
 
brewbama said:
Well, I just gave $6.50 to the local for a pack of 34/70.
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That's actually a good price, same as MoreBeer. Fermentis varieties are all priced differently starting from ~$2.50, and W34/70 is their most expensive. Currently $6.99 and $7.79 at the two shops around here. That's liquid yeast money.
 
Robert65 said:
That's actually a good price, same as MoreBeer. Fermentis varieties are all priced differently starting from ~$2.50, and W34/70 is their most expensive. Currently $6.99 and $7.79 at the two shops around here. That's liquid yeast money.
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S-189 is actually the most expensive but 34/70 is a close second. Given the compact storage size and long shelf life, I only take a dollar on dry yeast. 34/70 is $4.89. That is a good price.
 
I rarely care about the price. The difference is a few bucks and at my burn rate with kids, colleges, cars, house, that doesn't even move the needle.

I buy all perishables at my local, and equipment online. But if my local disappears, I'm not too concerned. Online works too. It's actually more convenient for me to buy everything online, but I just have to plan ahead to do that.
 
If we had a local shop I'd easily pay 10% above online costs, maybe even 15-20% more with great customer service. Unfortunately, our "local" shop is an hour away for me so I end up doing 98% of my shopping online. I do still go there for CO2 swaps just to chat and check out the new gear, and we usually go to the nearby mall or stop somewhere nice to eat. I could easily swap CO2 right in town but the guys at the local welding shops are jerks and I refuse to deal with them.
 

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