How much extra would you pay to support a LHBS

[OpenSights]

My lhbs is 150 miles away. I buy all my ingredients there. Shipping is a killer to Alaska.

Do they ship to you Tom? My old LHBS would ship, but they were 3 minutes away, 5 with traffic or if you had to stop at the light.

Other than deals on Craigslist I bought everything from them unless they didn’t carry it. They were open for 23 years. About two or three years ago we had 4 LHBS. The competition between them and the internet closed all but one. So I’m hell bent on keeping them open!

Our club now meets at the remaining one, along with another club, just different night. The owner is a great guy and anytime I stop in I always buy something even if I don’t really need it anytime soon. Honestly, I’ve only bought 1 55# bag of 2 row and 15# DME online only because they were insane deals.

I don’t shop there as much as my old store simply because of distance, not that it’s that far, 20-25 minutes.

 

[shoengine]

I also pay between 10-15% more to shop local for most things. I do not buy hops at my LHBS because of the insane discounted bulk prices from places like YVH or HopsDirect. My freezer is FULL.

I do purchase both base and specialty grains at my LHBS, and when I’ve used my yeast cultures too many generations, I get fresh from there too. The markup on hardware and tubing is a bit much, but I’m usually too lazy to try to find the right thing online so I give preference to what’s right in front of me in my hands.

Also, to the customer service quality point of view - that would be a big factor also. Since my LHBS is comprised of employees who are in our brew club and most of whom are my friends, I like going there. Sometimes I just go to have a beer on a Friday - even when I don’t need anything. Tomorrow they’re hosting a Bottle Share!

I have pretty much the same exact experience as this, down to the employees being in the homebrew club. Pretty much the only thing I don't buy there is bulk hops. They just don't have the selection in bulk I need, and I usually buy pounds when they go on sale.

I came in with a couple corny caps that needed replacement PRVs a few days ago. One of them was an easy replacement, the other had a threaded bung that neither of the PRVs on the shelf would fit. The owner ran into the back and brought out a used corny cap with a good PRV and gave it to me.

 

[OpenSights]

I forgot to mention, our old store would a 10% off coupon if you attended a meeting and for every $750 spent you got a $50 gift certificate.

Our new store gives 10% every purchase for our club members.

 

[Still Brewn]

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.

 

[bracconiere]

for a while i was trying to support the LHBS, buying my crystals from them....still bought bulk base grains from morebeer. Then i started malting my own, now i just support the local feed store and YVH....

(the LHBS shut down a couple years ago)

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.

I hear you brother.

I know this is off topic, but I refuse to take my auto to the local dealer from whom I purchased it. Why? More than once I caught them lying about needed service as in "Your brakes are shot! You really shouldn't be driving this vehicle unless the brakes are fixed!". This was 3 months after having a complete brake job at a service garage. I refuse the dealers offer, take my auto to another service garage (not the place that did the brake job) and have them check the breaks. Outcome? Brakes are fine.

I've realized a while ago we should be given cars for free. Why? On going maintenance is where the real money is made.

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. Shipping to rural Maine may not be quite as bad as Alaska and Hawaii, but it's no cheapo. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.

 

[Bobby_M]

These quotes are high (IMO ridiculous). 2 row from Briess is what? $30 to 35?

I know folks have to put food on their tables, but it's my choice if I help them or not. Businesses are in business to take our money, it's our job to keep our money. This is why I participate in group grain purchases.

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

Please, no flames, evil looks, etc as I realize and acknowledge the costs of doing business. However, there are better methods than stiffing people.

Sorry for the flames but making 5% profit out of your house is not running a business. It's more like a hobby.

Briess 2 row is about $31 plus freight from most distributors. It has to be received, checked in, broken down and put away. When someone buys it, it has to be handled again, checked out, credit card processing fees, POS sytem fees. That's just the direct cost of that transaction. There's also rent, air conditioning, lighting and product loss. How many dollars of profit is fair for the business owner?

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. Shipping to rural Maine may not be quite as bad as Alaska and Hawaii, but it's no cheapo. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.
Sorry about the practically duplicate post. Tries to edit, but computer acting a little wonky tonight. Thunderstorms in the area.

 

[WestMichiganSteelheader]

I live 30 minutes from 3 locally owned shops. One has the best prices but the only employee that knows anything about brewing is the owner and he is not always there. My favorite shop is a little more expensive but he is an experienced brewer. When I have questions he always offers me multiple options as potential solutions. He has a very small store but the service is great. I can email a recipe and he has everything ready when I show up.

 

[AkTom]

Do they ship to you Tom? My old LHBS would ship, but they were 3 minutes away, 5 with traffic or if you had to stop at the light.

Other than deals on Craigslist I bought everything from them unless they didn’t carry it. They were open for 23 years. About two or three years ago we had 4 LHBS. The competition between them and the internet closed all but one. So I’m hell bent on keeping them open!

Our club now meets at the remaining one, along with another club, just different night. The owner is a great guy and anytime I stop in I always buy something even if I don’t really need it anytime soon. Honestly, I’ve only bought 1 55# bag of 2 row and 15# DME online only because they were insane deals.

I don’t shop there as much as my old store simply because of distance, not that it’s that far, 20-25 minutes.

They do ship. But I try to plan ahead and get enough for several beers. I’ve only had them ship 1 small box USPS flat rate.
Great service at Arctic Brewing.

 

[Jtvann]

Briess 2 row is about $31 plus freight from most distributors.

I'd consider 35 dollars for a 50lb bag giving it away
40 dollars is an excellent price
45 dollars is a good price
50 dollars. I'll buy it without complaining
63 dollars, which is what I was quoted yesterday is asinine. Oh, dont forget the 200 dollars for 50lbs DME

 

[OpenSights]

I forgot to mention, my store that closed was also a hangout spot for a lot of us. They had a table and chairs, pretzels, 7 tap keezer filled with their store made extract kits, kegs of wine and tasting glasses. It was like our own little Cheers! We’d sit around talk beer, personal lives, good times!

I miss that place!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

LHBS housecall delivery?? thats awesome service !!

Well, not everybody gets that level of service, but I'm an excellent customer and I've become friends with the manager and invite him to my annual Oktoberfest party every year.

 

[matt_m]

Define local. If there was one in my town, and they carried a good stock I’d buy most supplies there. Equipment might depend on price and lead time but since most prices on name brands are fixed probably just the latter.

But my localish options are 30-60 minutes and none are places I’m consistently near. If I make a special trip it involves time, gas, and probably dinner out so I’m a lot more inclined to buy online.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

mine has decent prices.
I'll but 50lb bags of grain for $50-$55 from them.
I but hops and yeast also for one-offs.

but every once in a while i'll find a deal where if I buy so much grain it's free shipping and I can get multiple types in 10lb bags.
So yeah I buy that but i'm talking wheat, pils, and two-row.
I still go to them for other grains.

I also buy hops in bulk when on sale.

their equipment prices are actually just a few $$ more than amazon so i buy buckets and consumables and DME from them also.

I like the owner.
He is smarter than me.
on a few occasions I placed orders on the internet and told him he can just throw it all in one bag.
He insists on separate bags.

Saved me twice because I somehow looked at my order in black and white and still ordered the wrong stuff. LOL!

were it all in one bag, i'm not sure what I would of ended up with.

 

[brewcat]

No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.

100% is pretty average. It seems some businesses have forgotten the goal is profit, not sales.

But back on topic. If I had a LHBS I'd probably do most of my shopping with them. Between 10-20% probably is reasonable. Anymore though, local prices are pretty competitive with online stores.

 

[mashpaddled]

These quotes are high (IMO ridiculous). 2 row from Briess is what? $30 to 35?

I know folks have to put food on their tables, but it's my choice if I help them or not. Businesses are in business to take our money, it's our job to keep our money. This is why I participate in group grain purchases.

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

Please, no flames, evil looks, etc as I realize and acknowledge the costs of doing business. However, there are better methods than stiffing people.

It is unreasonable to compare a business run out of your house, doing whatever it was you did, and a business that rents a storefront, has employees and has to maintain inventory of products on the shelves.

Consider as well that a five percent markup on a $30 sack of grain is $1.50. Kinda hard to just pay expenses on $1.50 unless the store sells at a high volume which is generally not the case for most local shops.

 

[kh54s10]

For me the answer is = it depends.... I used to have a LHBS that was pretty close, great service, and decent prices. I moved.

My close by local, now, is more wine with beer as a sideline. So they get my wine business. The first time I went there was before moving here. They had grain bins and it was self service. But they gave you a cart with a scale and plastic bags. They wanted you to measure out exactly in one pound increments. I didn't catch on and had things like 1.1 pound and 2.25 pounds. The owner griped but rounded to the pound. Also I opened a couple of bins and got a face full of moths flying out of the container. They now have all the grains in bags. 50 lb, 10 lb and 1 lb.

The better LHBS is about 30 miles away so I don't get there often.

As to how much more I would spend, again it depends. Is it needed now for a brew day? How much more. 10 - 15% seems reasonable. But many times it is less expensive at the LHBS. Like 50 pound sacks. I know you can order five 10 pound bags (Morebeer?) with free shipping. But?? Haven't tried or compared prices. Anywhere else shipping is a killer.

To the guy that thinks 5% is a good markup over wholesale, what world are you living in? You tried that out of your house. No employee wage fees, little if any overhead figured into that. Probably no credit card fees. No taxes. No store or warehouse maintenance....

In a brick and mortar store or even online only you wouldn't last long....

My first job in 1971, the standard mark up was 30%

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I like my LHBS. Grain by the ounce/pound and she stocks basically everything. Hops are around $2/ounce, up to $3+ for the usual suspects. Base malts are $1.76/pound and specialty malts run $1.94 to $2.30/pound, but you buy and pay for what you need. I buy all my grain there on principal, and she's active and supports my local club as well. At the end of the day, a 5g batch runs $20 to $30. I'm also in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, so those prices are going to be on the high end, because rent, etc. tend to be pricey here. It's all of 5 miles from my house and my job, so the convenience factor is huge, as is the ability to buy 2 ounces of chocolate malt.

 

[Bubbles2]

Since I am a weirdo who uses organics instead of sprayed grain, hops and DME, I am forced to order online and pick it up off my front porch at a considerable savings.
I know there is the overhead of a store but there is also a wholesale price to that store and also a shipping discount they enjoy.
For example for me to buy a 5 gallon bucket is more online due to shipping then for a store. Yet that store gets a volume discount, shipping discount and is asking the same price but I have to drive to get it, wait in line while the clerk B.S's with friends. OR order online, in seconds, and go out to my porch and bring it in.

 

[CJ-3]

Duplicate post

 

[CJ-3]

I like my LHBS. Grain by the ounce/pound and she stocks basically everything. Hops are around $2/ounce, up to $3+ for the usual suspects. Base malts are $1.76/pound and specialty malts run $1.94 to $2.30/pound, but you buy and pay for what you need. I buy all my grain there on principal, and she's active and supports my local club as well. At the end of the day, a 5g batch runs $20 to $30. I'm also in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, so those prices are going to be on the high end, because rent, etc. tend to be pricey here. It's all of 5 miles from my house and my job, so the convenience factor is huge, as is the ability to buy 2 ounces of chocolate malt.

Can I ask where you shop at? Sounds like a place I want to go to.

 

[OpenSights]

Since I am a weirdo who uses organics instead of sprayed grain, hops and DME, I am forced to order online and pick it up off my front porch at a considerable savings.
I know there is the overhead of a store but there is also a wholesale price to that store and also a shipping discount they enjoy.
For example for me to buy a 5 gallon bucket is more online due to shipping then for a store. Yet that store gets a volume discount, shipping discount and is asking the same price but I have to drive to get it, wait in line while the clerk B.S's with friends. OR order online, in seconds, and go out to my porch and bring it in.

I’m going to share a quote from a good friend of mine. Basically the the the thread was about what what kids today will not and cannot experience what we did as kids. Mostly summertime activities. Roaming the town unsupervised, stupid stuff with our bikes... pranks... anyhow here’s a post by my buddy quoting me.

If this is considered off topic, mod’s please delete.

Point of this post is primarily to illustrate online vs. brick and mortar and what we are loosing as a society. Enjoy, hopefully....

“Originally Posted by OpenSights
Isn’t that sad that our society is isolating itself? Generally speaking I think it’s because of political correctness. In today’s society you don’t want to offend your neighbor by whatever and cause a possible continuous feud and than no one’s happy.

What we lack is the ability to accept other people’s views and opinions, well, at least some don’t. I don’t want to have to move this to the P&R section, so I’ll stop here.

Point of my post is the community I live in now. I know most of my neighbors and have good relationships with all that I know. My family has hung out with many of them, even hosted a brew day. My newest neighbors seem friendly, had a brief conversation Friday.”

SRDH:
“I believe it is just 1 part of a much grander scheme the government is trying to pull...technology has let us make contact with each other by staying away...texting has taken away social skills and the ability to interact on a face to face basis, and its only going to get worse...
you dont have to leave your house ever...if you work at home online, you can order all your food online and delivered as well as any product you need, you do all your mailing and business through..online...we have become prisoners by our own hand...can or will we learn from that?? that is the important question..”

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f13/i-m-so-old-when-i-kid-84666/

 

[OpenSights]

Double tap.

 

[Bubbles2]

I’m going to share a quote from a good friend of mine. Basically the the the thread was about what what kids today will not and cannot experience what we did as kids. Mostly summertime activities. Roaming the town unsupervised, stupid stuff with our bikes... pranks... anyhow here’s a post by my buddy quoting me.

If this is considered off topic, mod’s please delete.

Point of this post is primarily to illustrate online vs. brick and mortar and what we are loosing as a society. Enjoy, hopefully....

“Originally Posted by OpenSights
Isn’t that sad that our society is isolating itself? Generally speaking I think it’s because of political correctness. In today’s society you don’t want to offend your neighbor by whatever and cause a possible continuous feud and than no one’s happy.

What we lack is the ability to accept other people’s views and opinions, well, at least some don’t. I don’t want to have to move this to the P&R section, so I’ll stop here.

Point of my post is the community I live in now. I know most of my neighbors and have good relationships with all that I know. My family has hung out with many of them, even hosted a brew day. My newest neighbors seem friendly, had a brief conversation Friday.”

SRDH:
“I believe it is just 1 part of a much grander scheme the government is trying to pull...technology has let us make contact with each other by staying away...texting has taken away social skills and the ability to interact on a face to face basis, and its only going to get worse...
you dont have to leave your house ever...if you work at home online, you can order all your food online and delivered as well as any product you need, you do all your mailing and business through..online...we have become prisoners by our own hand...can or will we learn from that?? that is the important question..”

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f13/i-m-so-old-when-i-kid-84666/

Irony~

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Can I ask where you shop at? Sounds like a place I want to go to.

What's Brewing in Palatine. Not exactly close to Lombard, but not too bad either.

 

[CJ-3]

What's Brewing in Palatine. Not exactly close to Lombard, but not too bad either.

Thank you! I get to Arlington Heights sometimes when the kids have a game up there. Palatine is close enough that I can swing by next time I'm in the area

 

[OpenSights]

Irony~

Yep. Society has degraded. Once it was FTF and a handshake. Now we hardly communicate other than text, email and voicemail, oh and pm. Society has little social skill anymore.