How much does yeast strain/type matter?

[ImpatientBrewer]

I realize that I don't yet have a sophisticated palate for cider, but I'm having a hard time telling the difference between my first two batches (aside from dryness, which I cut down on by starting with a higher OG and putting it into secondary before the yeast ate all the sugar).

Aside from how much alcohol a strain can tolerate before it dies, how much does the choice of yeast matter?



PS: Is it still secondary if it's refrigerated?

 

[BrownBottle]

I asked my local brew shop that very question today. I was told that it doesn't play a particularly large role in taste. He stated that beer yeasts such a Nottingham (my yeast of choice) will be pretty neutral. Wine yeast tend to have a sharper taste.

I do not have first hand experience with this so I'm interested if other people have a different perspective.

 

[gregbathurst]

Yeast selection won't turn a cheap juice into a good cider. There are lots of things that influence the final quality, but quality of juice is the main determinate. Yeast selection, cidermaking skill, nutrient management, temperature, ageing, MLF, bottling, all these things and others will influence the final quality. You shouldn't obsess over one single factor, but try to get a balance of factors that will give you the best overall quality. Some people say that adding flavourings to cider will only ever make it worse, others disagree. Personal preference is also a big factor.

 

[ImpatientBrewer]

Yeast selection, cidermaking skill, nutrient management, temperature, ageing, MLF, bottling, all these things and others will influence the final quality.

Can you please elaborate on the temperature and nutrient management? I'm assuming there is more to nutrient management than simply dumping some in at the beginning of the process.

 

[gregbathurst]

Temperature is very important to cider making. The lower the temperature, the slower the fermentation. That means less loss of volatiles and a different balance to some flavour molecules. Faster ferments are safer because there is simply less time for micro-organisms to do their stuff, but you may lose the intensity of some flavours, and even produce some less desirable flavours. Temperatures above 20C are not favourable, and above 25C there will definitely be deterioration of the cider. If you want to do keeving you will need low temperatures, and most European cider is fermented at low temperatures just because the ambient temperature is so low. However in warmer climates apples ripen better so there is usually more flavour in the cider to begin with, the loss of flavour due to warm fermentation is not so important. Rapid temperature changes are bad because they change the way yeasts work, and may favour spoilage organisms.

Nutrient management includes fertiliser applications in the orchards, also keeving and repeated racking. If you want to arrest a slow fermentation to leave residual sweetness you need a low nutrient juice to begin with. If you are doing a warm fast ferment you need adequate nutrients and may want to add some.

 

[Yooper]

There are some other considerations with yeast strain.

I'll give an example.

I tend to use a yeast strain that metabolizes more malic acid, as cider is primarily malic acid. I don't do MLF on my ciders (well, maybe I will start- see my thread about this!) but I like using 71B for that purpose as it reduces some, but not all that much, of that acid.

On this last batch, I didn't want the cider to go completely dry so I used S04 ale yeast. It worked perfectly- it's clear, with a FG of 1.004. But it's very very tart. Not tart as in dry- but tart as in very high in malic acid.

I guess I should have expected that! But now I'm considering doing MLF on this cider to reduce that biting acidity. It wouldn't be an issue if I sweetened my ciders (or wines), but I do not. I think with enough added sweetener, I may be able to balance the cider. But I'm getting off topic here-

My point is that the difference in ciders fermented with S04 and 71B is absolutely remarkable!

 

[podz]

To my taste (and my wife's), the yeast makes a really big difference. I fermented 3 batches with US-05 and we did not like it nearly as much as the batches that I fermented using Kitzinger champagne yeast. With the US-05, the taste was much softer - not preferred at all. With the champagne yeast, the taste is sharp and crisp - the way it should be.

In addition, you can't fill your vessel with juice when using ale yeast. Less cider per batch - that doesn't make me happy at all!