How Many Rhizomes Would You Recomend?
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If I can offer any advice, Id say try to maximize on varieties that you know will do well in your climate...I started with about 8 rhizomes, and have since dedicated myself to four, simply because they grow much better - As for total number...Its really has to do with the space you have available...If its your first year growing it might be worth purchasing several varieties to see what does well, then eventually decide based on that
Just my 2 cents - Cheers
Just my 2 cents - Cheers
Gridlocked
Well-Known Member
Depends on how much time you have in the fall. I have a side business that is very busy in the fall and I can harvest six, second-year plants. I would start with four, wait 2 years and get more if you can handle it. Keep in mind, the volume will multiply by three from year one to year two.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
If you are as bad of a gardener as I am you might want to start with one really easy variety, like cascade, to get your feet wet.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
As of this year, I have (4) 5th year plants and (2) third year. I get way more hops than I need. I'll probably have somewhere in the ballpark of 10 lbs of hops this year. They do require lots of attention at times and frequent watering (especially when it's hot). Get as many as you think you can handle (and or have room for). If you end up with more hops than you need, just harvest your share and then put an add on craigs list. Or just let the rest go.
jester5120
Well-Known Member
get a few plants, something like 4 to 6, of what you use the most. I bought 10 cascade rhizomes off ebay last year for $10. The seller sent me some extras so i ended up with 16 and only 12 of those actually survived. If all 12 of those put out a pound this year (which i guess is common) that's 12 pounds. That's cool but at the same time i don't use cascade that often anymore. So that's why I say get a variety of the ones you use the most and not a ton of 1 variety.
BBL_Brewer and jester5120 your hop harvest sound a bit misleading. You can't be getting 1lb of dried hops per plant. That's just not possible and certainly not in the first year or two. I suspect you are quoting the wet weight of the hops right after you picked them which isn't a measure of hop quantity that homebrewers are familiar working with. Purchased commercially prepared hops, either whole cone or pellet, all come in dried form. What you harvested last year in dried terms is more like 2 - 3 oz per plant at most, as the ratio of fresh picked wet hops to dried hops is in the range of 5-to-1 to 8-to-1 if dried to the same moisture level as commercially prepared hops.
BTW, most of us homebrewers don't really dry them out that far before packing them and putting them in the fridge or freezer. So, even dried, we think we have more than we really do. That may also be a contributing factor to the perceived wide range of bittering value in homegrown hops.
BTW, most of us homebrewers don't really dry them out that far before packing them and putting them in the fridge or freezer. So, even dried, we think we have more than we really do. That may also be a contributing factor to the perceived wide range of bittering value in homegrown hops.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
I fear you didn't read my post in its entirety. I have 5th year and 3rd year plants. I tend them very well and fertilize. And yes, the harvests I reported are accurate, if not a little under the money. My smallest harvest was about a pound and a half, and that was from my first year plants. Nowadays, I get around two pounds per plant for my cascades, about a pound out of my centennials and my CTZ can easily put out 3+ pounds if I prune it right and don't let it get too big. That's dry weight, vacume packed and in the freezer. And the way I dry my hops, the final moisture content is likely lower than commercial. The only problem with bittering is that the Alpha Acid content is hard to measure without sending to a lab for analysis. I have tried the titration method at home and had trouble getting consistent results. I just estimate AAU's now and make adjustments from year to year. Obviously you have never grown hops, or if you have, you haven't taken the time to care for them properly. Don't quote from books and speculate if you have no actual experience with the topic at hand.
jester5120
Well-Known Member
starsailor said:
I didn't say I got that output the first year. I've just heard from people such as professional brewers ,hop farmers, and brewers on this forum that 1-3 pounds dried for a mature plant is very normal. None of them have a good reason to lie to me about plant yield. How much yield do you get from your plants? and what kind of lousy conditions are they in?
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
If I got that much hops in a single year out of my handful of plants I'd never have to buy hops again and I'd probably have to sell most of it off. I'd be happy if I pulled 2-3oz per plant per year. That would still cover most of my hop needs each year.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
If I only got 2-3 oz per plant I'd be sick and just give it up. I've gotten to the point where I kind of dread harvest season. It takes a couple weeks worth of evenings to pick and dry a significant quantity. My basement gets filled with screens where I pre dry my hops while I'm waiting for the dehydrators to free up. The worst part is cleaning the basement floor after all that sticky lupulin drops out under the screens. I have to use rags soaked with alcahol to wipe it up before I mop.
Exactly
Exactly
jester5120
Well-Known Member
If hops plants only put out 2-3 oz it'd be cheaper to just buy the hops. That's what i got off my first year rhizomes. The cost of rhizomes and the time spent picking and drying isn't worth it for that small amount. It'd basically be like planting a whole vegetable garden, tending to it all summer, and picking everything only to get 1 tomato, 1 pepper, and 1 ear of corn. I really hope thats not the case.
I think 2 lbs dried is a good number to assume for a mature crown. Of course, "how dry" you get them will impact your real "dried weight" vs what an equivalent commercial weight.
Last year I used a homemade ghetto-oast and managed to get to roughly 1/5th to 1/6th of wet weight (which is what the commercial growers aim for, although they certainly measure it more accurately with hygrometers) and my more prolific varieties put out close to 2 lbs dry weight.
Even when they produce, it's cheaper to buy pellets, IMO. The use of the space, the trellis costs/maintenance, the water costs, fert costs, getting hops with known AA%, etc.
Not to dissuade anyone from growing them, but it ain't gonna save you money, I assure you.
Haven't been at the boards in a while. My big plants consistently give me two pounds dry. I'm sitting on 100 ounces of dry hops and my hop rocket will arrive this week.
I'm in aurora il, I've got shoots breaking ground, and foresee a great beer year.
I'm in aurora il, I've got shoots breaking ground, and foresee a great beer year.
I agree with Randar (usually do), there is a tipping point for pros where the quantity grown exceeds the investment in- and that's called gain/profit.
The homegrower can't hit that tipping point with out an significant investment in green practices. And the return will take time.
My rain barrels, garden, trellis are all in place- I don't need to pay for those any more. If I could sell my 100 ounces for say $2 an ounce- maybe I'll break even next year? . Never did the math.
I garden and I brew, and I like how they compliment each other, but I wouldn't say they are profitable hobbies.
The homegrower can't hit that tipping point with out an significant investment in green practices. And the return will take time.
My rain barrels, garden, trellis are all in place- I don't need to pay for those any more. If I could sell my 100 ounces for say $2 an ounce- maybe I'll break even next year? . Never did the math.
I garden and I brew, and I like how they compliment each other, but I wouldn't say they are profitable hobbies.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
I'll agree with that. If you buy your hops in bulk from hops direct or something, you're not going to save much if anything. But if you don't brew that much and buy hops by the ounce from the LHBS as you need them it's definitely cheaper. And there is something to be said for being self sufficient. Plus, I am of the opinion that homegrown hops can be superior to commercial in quality and freshness due to a lower amount of processing and sheer speed from bine to freezer. Not to mention most commercial growers don't freeze their hops but rather store them in a walk in cooler so if you don't buy them right after harvest you are not getting peak quality.
jester5120
Well-Known Member
I haven't put a ton of money into building raised beds or a nice trellis system. Just good soil, basic fertilizer, and lots of sun exposure. So while i get excited to watch them grow and also enjoy having my own hops I can experience some savings in growing my own.
I do think there is savings to be found, but when hops are cheap my friends laugh at me. On the other hand I've so many hops I feel free to do what I want. I never complain about the cost of making beer. And my hops are very aromatic, even my Zeus which my friend uses as buttering only.
I love leaf and push other brewers to use them. I guess the focus should be great hops, not do they pay to grow.
I love leaf and push other brewers to use them. I guess the focus should be great hops, not do they pay to grow.
Note that you may recoup some of the initial investment by selling some rhizomes in the spring a few years down the line. This year I harvested enough rhizomes (~130) off three mature plants to give a lot away to friends/family, trade for some new varieties, and sold enough on Craigslist to buy a new mill... 
I still haven't hit the 2-3 pound mark off one plant, though, but I use only compost to fertilize and stick to organic practices. I'd love to see some pictures of those three-pound yielding monsters and hear more about the nutrient inputs as the season progresses. And Retrofit is right to speak to the quality of home grown/processed hops and the intrinsic rewards of brewing beer made solely from them.
I still haven't hit the 2-3 pound mark off one plant, though, but I use only compost to fertilize and stick to organic practices. I'd love to see some pictures of those three-pound yielding monsters and hear more about the nutrient inputs as the season progresses. And Retrofit is right to speak to the quality of home grown/processed hops and the intrinsic rewards of brewing beer made solely from them.
This. If you're doing it to save money, you're going to be greatly disappointed.
I've posted pretty extensively about my low-input methods on this sub-forum. I plant a lot of beneficial insect-attracting plants in the area and use some compost or slow-release nitrogen early in the season up till initial cone formation. Nothing after that as my soil is already rich in potassium the cones require.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
I'm a crappy gardener so getting anything out of it would be a pleasant surprise. Texas gets incredibly hot and dry over the summer so I expect less productivity than some of you in cooler and wetter regions.
I don't brew as much as others and I don't brew a lot of hoppy beers so when I buy a pound of hop pellets it lasts around a year. If I produced a pound of hops in total per year that would satisfy most of my needs. I'm mostly growing so I can keep buying a general hop by the pound for most of my brewing needs but have a little variety and be able to say I grew the hops in my beer.
