How many BTU's is your Hurricane Natural Gas Burner .......burning

[willynilly]

So your saying a 3000 watt electric element would have done the same thing as his burner?

That is exactly right

So, a 9000W kettle would do it in 1/3 the time, or about 19 minutes.

A 3000W heating element will heat as fast as a 55K BTU burner

 

[passedpawn]

So your saying a 3000 watt electric element would have done the same thing as his burner?

Yes .

 

[passedpawn]

Here is a perfect example. This place claims that 54,000 BTUs/hr will bring 7.5 gallons to a boil in just 9.8 mins. Unless I am mistaken, this would mean that there is only 6% efficiency going on here. They state to be safe to double the heating time. So we are now at 20 minuets to a boil. So this would mean that his burner is only about 25,000 BTUs. I am just learning this stuff so I could very well be wrong.

I copied this from here,
http://www.lalagniappe.com/mall/lobbycookerfaq.htm

I'm sure the burner is what they say, 54,000 BTU. That just means how fast it can blow propane out it's nozzles.

Their numbers are fine. About 9000 BTU to heat 7.5g from 70 to 212. If you assume that all the burner's expended BTUs are going into the pot, it will take 9000/54000 = .16 hr. or 10 minutes. Thing is monti, most of the flame is going around the pot. I can't tell you how much, and neither can they. Factors like your pot design, burner stand, and wind have a big effect. I'd would say that their 50% is probably very optimistic too. Maybe someone can take the formulas I posted earlier and do some real world tests.

I only use electric so I can't add anything further here.

 

[diatonic]

Though the heat transfer with electric is nearly 100% to the liquid, there is still heat lost through the walls of the kettle and into ambient air. I'm looking forward to testing this on my new rig which will heat HLT with either propane or 5500w element.

 

[GreenMonti]

Here you go guys,

Copied from here,
http://www.stanleymotorcarriage.com/Parts/Superheater.htm

The steam that is produced when water is boiled is called saturated steam. Saturated steam is nothing more than steam at the same temperature of the water from which it came. It does not take a lot of heat energy to raise the temperature of water from the freezing point (32° Fahrenheit) to the boiling point (212° Fahrenheit). To accomplish the 180° Fahrenheit temperature change of one pound of water requires about 180 British Thermal Units (BTUs) of heat energy. However to change the water from it's liquid state at 212° F to a gas or vapor (steam) state at 212° F requires an additional 970 BTUs of energy added (latent heat of vaporization) to the water. Simply stated, a total of 1150 BTUs of energy is required to change a pound of water at 32 ° F into saturated steam at 212° F. Thus at atmospheric pressure, like a pot of water on a stove, 84% of the heat consumed by the water in turning it into steam goes solely to convert the liquid water at 212° F into a gas at 212° F

 

[kladue]

Making the assumption that most of the heat is blowing up the sides of the kettle is not too accurate, most of the energy is passing as radiant heat from the flame, with a lower level component of gas heat transfer. While electric systems are nice and clean, the amount of heat delivered is limited by supply system constraints, and overall delivery is usally a fraction of gas burner systems.

 

[GreenMonti]

Making the assumption that most of the heat is blowing up the sides of the kettle is not too accurate, most of the energy is passing as radiant heat from the flame, with a lower level component of gas heat transfer. While electric systems are nice and clean, the amount of heat delivered is limited by supply system constraints, and overall delivery is usally a fraction of gas burner systems.

Kladue,

Am I wrong in the 6% utilization number, based on the 10,000 BTUs needed to boil? Maybe I inverted the numbers? If I am right then it isn't even as good as 6%.

 

[passedpawn]

While electric systems are nice and clean, the amount of heat delivered is limited by supply system constraints, and overall delivery is usally a fraction of gas burner systems.

Disregarding the math, my experience says you are quite wrong. I can heat/boil 14 gallons in my 5500W electrric keggle much faster than my old burner did with 7g.

BTW, 5500W = 18,700 BTU/hr.

I'd like to know what those supply "system constraints" are. Truly, as I want to know the details here.

 

[passedpawn]

OK, I just ran a test! That was sorta fun.

Data

• 10 gallons water in my keggle.
• Start Temp: 70F
• End Temp: 209F
• Elapsed Time: 40 minutes

Total BTU's expended

lbs * delta-T = BTUs
(10*8.34) * (209-70) = 11,593 BTUs
​

Effective Power Rating of my Electric Keggle:

11,593 BTUs / ( 0.67 hrs ) = 17389 BTU's / hr.​

Efficiency of My System

17,389 / 18,700 = 93%​

That efficiency is not 100% because of heat loss through walls of keggle, etc. Also, I have no idea what the power looks like and if I am truly getting 5500W.

Here is the graph from my test (from a digital temp meter with logging). Click the graph to get a big one.

 

[kladue]

The supply system constraints are related to average residential service panels of the 150-200 amp range and a supply voltage of 120/240 Volts. Most are loaded to the point that adding more than 50 amp load is not a good idea. With a 50 amp breaker you are limited to 80% continous load for safe operation and that limits sustained KW to 9.6Kw (32,765 Btu's). The heating to boiling process analogy is filling a bucket with a hose, you have to fill the bucket (970 Btu's / LB) before it overflows (Boiling). The larger the heat source( larger the hose) the faster the bucket fills, then to keep bucket overflowing (boiling) takes much less energy as only the water evaporation and heat loss though sides are the loads.
Electic systems are nice and clean and easy to automate but they will take a bit more time to get to boiling than a properly built gas fired or steam heated system. If electric systems is your thing go for it, it is just another way of getting the job done and making beer, I tend to favor the brute force gas/steam approach to brewing.

 

[willynilly]

This is not really true, as I have used both gas and electric systems. My electric systems have kicked the pants off my gas systems for boiling.

9000W is equal to 30,708 BTUs... BUT it heats 3x faster than my little 55K BTU propane burner.

I dont know how else to design a gas system aside from proper shielding, so that it helps to concentrate the heat at the kettle.

9000W will take 13 gallons from sparge temp. 160F to a boil in 11 minutes. I could never get close to this with my gas burners, I couldn't do it that quickly in a 7 gallon boil in fact. I can also heat 5 gallons of strike water at a rate of 10F per MINUTE. I dont understand the brute force analogy, because this seems like brute force to me.

I know people like to say that electric is slow, but it isnt when you consider that it is about 95% eff (accounting for heat loss) and it has been tested time and time again with gas burners and the numbers are anywhere from 20-30% eff. This means that you need a gas burner that is 3-5x larger than is electric counterpart to heat in the same amount of time.

Even a 5500W BK is equal to a gas burner of about 75K BTUs... it is just much cheaper to operate.

I would put my electric BK against most gas BKs any day.

My garage used to get up to about 90F in the dead of winter when I had a gas BK running. With electric it is still a balmy 45F when the BK is running, because all of that heat is going into the garage, not my boil.

We are wayyyy OT here though and re-hashing the same thing that has always been hashed. Gas users swear electric is slow to heat, and electric users who have used both, know it isnt true, the heating times speak for themselves.

To each their own, but the correct information should be out there

 

[passedpawn]

Kladue is not referring to any system you or I have had. He is referring to something like this. Because there is so much energy available in fossil fuels, they have the potential to be equivalent to electric. It all comes back to the efficiency of getting those BTUs into the wort.

I was really trying not to turn this thread into an electric vs. gas debate. The OP was asking about formulas for determining BTUs, etc. Maybe we should let this go.

 

[willynilly]

Good idea... continue here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/what-boiling-169336/

 

[Bobby_M]

How are you calculating that? This burner is clearly putting out more then 10k btu's.

Are you sure?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/effective-btu-you-might-surprised-159043/

 

[HomeBrewFoSho]

Are you sure?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/effective-btu-you-might-surprised-159043/

Holy off topic. This wasn't supposed to be a thread about how many btu's are getting into keggles or how they're getting there. I was just stating what the btu tables say my burner is putting out period. This was so other people that want to get their orifice sizing right the first time on a hurricane or banjo burner. No one could tell me what their burners were putting out for btu's thats all. So I'm letting people know that the 56000 btu mark seems to be a good one to shoot for. Good flame color and no soot on the keg. My efficiency may go up when I drill the holes around the skirt too.

 

[willynilly]

That is 10,200 BTUs of heat that you are getting into your pot. Where are you getting the 56,000 BTU number?

Yah, sorry, my initial question to you was "how are you calculating your BTUs...." Orifice size and pressure.

Then we got here. Sorry.

 

[HomeBrewFoSho]

Yah, sorry, my initial question to you was "how are you calculating your BTUs...." Orifice size and pressure.

Then we got here. Sorry.

Haha no problem. Let's just hope the people that see this thread make it all the way to the end.

 

[willynilly]

Haha no problem. Let's just hope the people that see this thread make it all the way to the end.

Lets hope they only read the first page

 

[passedpawn]

And for the real question for anyone who may have done this , do you know exactly how many BTU's your running?

I posted the answer on the second page. Here. You need to measure the weight of the tank before and after a burn, multiply by the propane energy content, then divide by hours. That gets you BTU/hr.

 

[Fletch]

Passed, I also liked how you edited your post to include the heat content figure for NG. Of course, with your method and NG, it's pretty hard to "weigh the tank" before and after, so I'm not too sure the additional info was really needed!

 

[passedpawn]

Passed, I also liked how you edited your post to include the heat content figure for NG. Of course, with your method and NG, it's pretty hard to "weigh the tank" before and after, so I'm not too sure the additional info was really needed!

OMG, you're right. I'm so stupid. Sometimes the obvious evades me while the details obscure my view.

 

[Fletch]

No, not stupid, you wanted to provide additional info, which is good. These things happen when we Prost and Post, you know! I've tasted my own show leather more than once on boards like these!

 

[ajwillys]

If you're burners come off easily just see what size drill bit fits in your conversion valve! Thanks

Finally got around to checking this, not sure if you still need it. A 1/8" drill bit kinda fits, 7/64 is too small. It looks like its about drilled all the way out.

 

[HomeBrewFoSho]

Finally got around to checking this, not sure if you still need it. A 1/8" drill bit kinda fits, 7/64 is too small. It looks like its about drilled all the way out.

Okay, so for anyone that's made it this far I think it's safe to say that 1/8" drill bit should work for most people. That's what the "conversion valve" is and that what I ended up at by testing the pressure and testing the flame. For those of you with really strange NG pressure you should shoot for the 56,000 BTU mark on the orifice sizing charts. Also I am using the "Banjo" burner and it is indeed the same as the "Hurricane". Well maybe cheaper but the same. Also to go from the brass orifice to 1/2" NPT I used a brass bushing and brazed the two together even though the threads were not NPT on the orifice itself. It worked out really well this way as I hard piped everything on the stand(I have a pipe threader to male custom length pipes).