How long to wait out fermentation to avoid gravity readings

[Christoff]

Hey everyone. I am relatively new to brewing (about 20 beers brewed and 6 ciders); this is also my first time posting here. I hate taking gravity readings and I'm always worried about increasing the chances of infecting the beer (or wasting it in a small 1 g batch). I use a combination of 1 gallon carboys, 3 gal plastic wide mouth with a spigot, 7 gal plastic wide mouth carboys and on occasion, the spike conical. When I prime, I pour the sugar solution into the carboy directly, which I know will not evenly distribute sugar, but so far I have not had issues with some over carbonating. All of my carboys are a pain to take gravity readings from in one way or another so I wait until bottling day to take the reading. I also want to cut down on how much starsan I am using (environment and health reasons). Any tips and tricks or advice, that does not require the purchase of more equipment (like a tilt. I want one (or two or three) but this has been a hobby that just keeps on taking from the wallet and I have to call it somewhere), Any ways for a newbie to to be comfortable knowing that your fermentation is done before you are bottling? I generally wait about 3 weeks, even if activity is long done. I don't want bottle bombs and for obvious reasons I want a fully fermented beer. Also, is it an issue with a few gravity points left to ferment out, or is that even cause for concern with bottle bombs?

Ex: I pitched 1 packet of safale-05 into apx 3.2 gal of 1.068 smoked porter on dec 14. It peaked on the 16th, and all activity in airlock was done by the 20th. For the last week there are bubbles moving around and there are some sitting on the surface (krausen is totally dropped). I assume this activity and the current bubbles on the surface is just residual CO2. Am I being overly cautious by letting it ferment longer at this point (I was going to bottle at day 21)? This evening will be 13 days.

Thanks a lot and sorry if I got some of the lingo wrong.

- Chris

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Welcome to HBT!

3 weeks I would say you are safe for sure. Fermentation may be done by day 5 depending on yeast strain, pitch rate, temp, and so on. However there are other things that need to happen after fermentation. The yeast need some time to clean up after themselves. By day 14 at proper temp that should be done, another week to let things settle out and you're at 3 weeks. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be safe.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I always allow two weeks for fermentation, beginning a cold crash on day twelve and rack to kegs after that.

 

[hotbeer]

Before I had a RaptPill to put in my FV, I just waited till the beer cleared up and everything fell out of suspension letting me see to the other side of the trub layer when using clear FV's.

By then, the SG will undoubtedly be the FG. I've often enough waited 5 to 6 weeks for beer to clear. But the norm lately is 2 weeks ± 2 or so days.

Though when I was a noob, reading posts and other stuff made me think a beer had to be bottled as soon as fermentation was over, I've found that my beers I bottled with little time in the FV way more disappointing than the beers I left in the primary FV for long periods.

Patience. Unless you are a commercial brewer where time is money and profit lost.

 

[Christoff]

The only thing lost is the opportunity to brew another beer sooner lol Thanks for the responses. I mostly ferment in the plastic carboys so I don't want them sitting in there too long. I'm a pretty patient brewer now that I have a regular cycle going.

Some questions that have popped up from your responses:

- does the yeast, etc, dropping out of suspension ( "see through the beer") make a huge difference on mouth feel and taste? particularly for darker, higher gravity beers?


- is cold crash necessary (or helpful) for darker beers?

- if I give it the time to drop out fully, but drop the temp in the room below recommended, is this an issue? I presume it's most important while fermentation is at its peak, with a gradual decline in importance as fermentation slows. But can the yeast still kick out off flavours at the end while I wait for it to clear? I have been on a kick of darker beers (I have a imperial stout, porter stout hybrid and the smoked porter all at the tail end) and I want to get my kolsch going to take advantage of the free refrigeration in my unheated garage. If I drop the temp to 60 degrees to ferment the kolsch, is this going to cause issue with the others? they have all fermented for a bit - apx dec 17, dec 14, and dec 9 respectively


Thanks again. This website/community has been super helpful in learning. It's a lot of info to take in and try to remember

 

[hotbeer]

- does the yeast, etc, dropping out of suspension ( "see through the beer") make a huge difference on mouth feel and taste? particularly for darker, higher gravity beers?

Yes. At least for the taste. Yeasty tasting beers really aren't what I care for. Though I'm not certain of the percentage yeast makes up in some of the disgusting murky brews I've been served.

If we were discussing dinner rolls, that might be different.

- is cold crash necessary (or helpful) for darker beers?

I don't think it's ever necessary unless you have to have a beer in the glass by a certain time.

Except for my latest beer, all my brews have been IPAs and other light or pale ales. This last beer is a pretty dark porter and spent 16 days in the FV. It is almost black. But it got very clean in the last few days before bottling. Probably cleared up just 3 days before bottling from a brown looking murky brew that scattered light to clean and almost black where you could see the light shined from behind without it diffusing in the beer. Wish I'd gotten a pic of all that. But it's starting its second week of carbonation today.

- if I give it the time to drop out fully, but drop the temp in the room below recommended, is this an issue?

Temperature is probably most critical during the time the yeast are actually fermenting the beer, which probably for many beers is just the first 3 to 4 days. So try to keep your beer where the ambient temps are pretty stable. I keep mine inside where it's 69-70° 24x7 the entire time it's in the FV. Which is usually >14 days even though FG occurred on the third day. Clearing up takes much more time if you let it happen by itself.

While some like to tightly control the actual temp of the beer, I let mine do what it wants. It's never gone over the ideal temp range of the yeast. And it's never stayed high for long. Usually just a day then it returns close to the ambient temps. Perhaps if I was brewing 5 or more gallons instead of 2.5 gallons or less it'd be more of an issue.

I've not any idea what letting the temps drop lower after fermentation is over will do for tastes other than maybe apply some lagering thoughts that may not really apply since the yeast is different. I just keep them stable for the entire time. After bottling and the carbonation/conditioning period is over I'm less concerned with high or low temps.

Oh... at some point you might get to wondering if that clear beer has enough yeast to bottle carbonate a beer. It most certainly does. Perhaps it may take a little bit longer. But still within the two week window most use for bottle carbonation. So if you have carbonation issues it's probably something else. But if your beer is very high ABV requiring a lot of attenuation, then yeast might be included in the discussion.

 

[Sammy86]

Hey everyone. I am relatively new to brewing (about 20 beers brewed and 6 ciders); this is also my first time posting here. I hate taking gravity readings and I'm always worried about increasing the chances of infecting the beer (or wasting it in a small 1 g batch). I use a combination of 1 gallon carboys, 3 gal plastic wide mouth with a spigot, 7 gal plastic wide mouth carboys and on occasion, the spike conical. When I prime, I pour the sugar solution into the carboy directly, which I know will not evenly distribute sugar, but so far I have not had issues with some over carbonating. All of my carboys are a pain to take gravity readings from in one way or another so I wait until bottling day to take the reading. I also want to cut down on how much starsan I am using (environment and health reasons). Any tips and tricks or advice, that does not require the purchase of more equipment (like a tilt. I want one (or two or three) but this has been a hobby that just keeps on taking from the wallet and I have to call it somewhere), Any ways for a newbie to to be comfortable knowing that your fermentation is done before you are bottling? I generally wait about 3 weeks, even if activity is long done. I don't want bottle bombs and for obvious reasons I want a fully fermented beer. Also, is it an issue with a few gravity points left to ferment out, or is that even cause for concern with bottle bombs?

Ex: I pitched 1 packet of safale-05 into apx 3.2 gal of 1.068 smoked porter on dec 14. It peaked on the 16th, and all activity in airlock was done by the 20th. For the last week there are bubbles moving around and there are some sitting on the surface (krausen is totally dropped). I assume this activity and the current bubbles on the surface is just residual CO2. Am I being overly cautious by letting it ferment longer at this point (I was going to bottle at day 21)? This evening will be 13 days.

Thanks a lot and sorry if I got some of the lingo wrong.

- Chris

I know you said you didn’t want to buy more equipment but getting yourself a refractometer (you can find them on amazon for like 20 bucks) and some pipettes will give you the ability to check gravities without wasting a lot of product. You will need to use an adjustment calculator due to alcohol skewing the reading but you can find plenty of them online. For a small price, you can have clear mind knowing your fermentations are complete.

 

[Christoff]

Sammy.. That's a good idea. How long are the pipettes? it doesn't eliminate all the problems but does some. I hate having to reach into my larger fermentors.

 

[Sammy86]

Sammy.. That's a good idea. How long are the pipettes? it doesn't eliminate all the problems but does some. I hate having to reach into my larger fermentors.

There are a bunch of sizes just from a quick search on Amazon. I don't use them personally, i still use a hydrometer so I can't make any recommendations.

 

[hotbeer]

For not much more money than refractometers you can get a Rapt Pill. Though finding them in the USA is a little difficult. Maybe about to change. Tilts are also a option, but they cost almost double last time I checked.

Maybe not as versatile, but for the other times I want to know SG, I use a real hydrometer which ends all the discussion about whether the correct corrections were used.

I got hold of a Rapt Pill from the Kegland store on AliExpress and it was shipped free to the USA for just 50 - 60 bucks. But they don't seem to have any at the moment. I wonder what's up with that? I've also seen them sold in Canada's online beer supply stores which typically can't or won't ship to the USA. Likely just unfavorable trade agreements for such items.

 

[Christoff]

How does the Rapt Pill compare to a tilt?

 

[hotbeer]

How does the Rapt Pill compare to a tilt?

Can't really compare since I haven't used the Tilt. However I knew about Tilts about 12 months before I ever heard of a Rapt Pill. The thing that stopped me from getting a Tilt when I first heard about them was that it only works with Bluetooth and I'd have to have a bluetooth device nearby to receive the data and store it. That may have changed for newer versions of Tilt's, but I'm not certain.

Rapt Pill is both wifi and bluetooth. So it can connect and work through your home wifi network. Assuming of course that your FV is somewhere that can get a strong enough signal from your wifi appliance or router. It only works with 2.4 ghz, not 5 ghz.

Tilt's apparently transmit a constant stream of data and therefore the battery life is shorter but sufficient for most times in the FV. Rapt Pill lets you set how often the data is polled for and transmitted. The default of 1 hour is said to let the battery last 5 years. I set mine for every 15 minutes which will require a charge or two each year.

Rapt Pill requires you to go through their cloud site to access the data. It works well enough, but it could be better. It looks to me like they provide the API's one could use to program their own interface, but I quit programming almost 20 years ago and haven't wrote a line of code since. Tilt's you have more control from the start about what you do with your data, but essentially you run it into google sheets and/or other stuff to produce the graphs and charts.

Tilt is smaller diameter I think. So that better if you use old style carboys. However the Rapt Pill has two o-ring seals that keep the liquid out prior to it reaching the screw threads and electronics inside. Tilt has only one o-ring seal but it's after the wort has gotten into the screw threads So you are pretty much going to have to open it up, clean and sanitize the threads every time. Unless they've changed that up since. I've not opened my Rapt Pill for the last three beers. I just sanitize it and toss it in the next batch.

I-spindle is another similar device and probably the older of them. It's completely DIY, but there are some kits that have everything you need.

 

[AlexKay]

Can't really compare since I haven't used the Tilt. However I knew about Tilts about 12 months before I ever heard of a Rapt Pill. The thing that stopped me from getting a Tilt when I first heard about them was that it only works with Bluetooth and I'd have to have a bluetooth device nearby to receive the data and store it. That may have changed for newer versions of Tilt's, but I'm not certain.

Rapt Pill is both wifi and bluetooth. So it can connect and work through your home wifi network. Assuming of course that your FV is somewhere that can get a strong enough signal from your wifi appliance or router. It only works with 2.4 ghz, not 5 ghz.

Tilt's apparently transmit a constant stream of data and therefore the battery life is shorter but sufficient for most times in the FV. Rapt Pill lets you set how often the data is polled for and transmitted. The default of 1 hour is said to let the battery last 5 years. I set mine for every 15 minutes which will require a charge or two each year.

Rapt Pill requires you to go through their cloud site to access the data. It works well enough, but it could be better. It looks to me like they provide the API's one could use to program their own interface, but I quit programming almost 20 years ago and haven't wrote a line of code since. Tilt's you have more control from the start about what you do with your data, but essentially you run it into google sheets and/or other stuff to produce the graphs and charts.

Tilt is smaller diameter I think. So that better if you use old style carboys. However the Rapt Pill has two o-ring seals that keep the liquid out prior to it reaching the screw threads and electronics inside. Tilt has only one o-ring seal but it's after the wort has gotten into the screw threads So you are pretty much going to have to open it up, clean and sanitize the threads every time. Unless they've changed that up since. I've not opened my Rapt Pill for the last three beers. I just sanitize it and toss it in the next batch.

I-spindle is another similar device and probably the older of them. It's completely DIY, but there are some kits that have everything you need.

My Tilt battery has a runtime measured in years — not 5, but maybe 1.5-2?

There’s only one seal, and the only sanitation I do is a dunk in StarSan before I put it into the fermenter. Never had any problem.

FWIW, Tilt is an American company and the product protected by a U.S. patent.

 

[hotbeer]

FWIW, Tilt is an American company and the product protected by a U.S. patent.

Not certain what to do with that. But lets not get too political here in this thread. All my malts come from the USA.

And there is more America than just the USA. North, Central and South.

 

[AlexKay]

Some people prefer to do business with US companies, for whatever reason: patriotism, boosting the economy, perceived quality of product and/or customer support, whatever. But that's what the "FWIW" was for -- many don't care. Myself, I don't have strong opinions either way, but I do respect a patent, provided it is valid, specific, nontrivial, and precedes any prior art.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Sammy.. That's a good idea. How long are the pipettes? it doesn't eliminate all the problems but does some. I hate having to reach into my larger fermentors.

My refractometer came with a short plastic pipette (maybe 6 inches long), but I just use a plastic straw with my thumb over the top to hold the sample. Way easier to ensure the straw is clean!

 

[Zambezi Special]

I do exactly the same.
Or any sort of narrow pipe will do, even one of your pvc hoses or racking cane.
Clibrate your rrfractometer with water at the same temp of your hooch to read zero (I think it was @dmtaylor who taught me that).

Adding onto fermentation time?
What do you do with a diastaticus yeast? I wait 4 weeks...

 

[schmurf]

Regarding TILT vs Rapt Pill, I've got both and I prefer the TILT. I'm sure the pill is great but it feels like it's more difficult to get started with.

 

[bike2brew]

Tilt works for me and has been a game changer in my brewing. Well worth the investment.

 

[balrog]

Sammy.. That's a good idea. How long are the pipettes? it doesn't eliminate all the problems but does some. I hate having to reach into my larger fermentors.

To get a drop or two for the refractometer does not really require a pipette; simply snaking small tubing through a bung hole opening or even an airlock gromet, will collect a drop. I have been known to use a 1/4" piece of PVC tubing, cleaned and sanitized of course, snaked in through the airlock grommet, down into the beer, put my finger over the opening and pull it out.

Realize, of course, that by pushing down from the top in this manner obviously means you will be pushing through any yeast rafts and krausen that are on top of the beer, which could impact your readings. But if the krausen has dropped, and the top is fairly clear, and you're not using one of those English yeasts that seem to hang out on the top of your beer as a stiff cloudy cheesy brains layers, you'll do fine. And you will eventually learn that with proper pitch and temperature treatment, there will be an amount of time after which you really don't need to obsessively check SG readings.

 

[Christoff]

thanks everyone. I really appreciate it. I like the idea of the refractometer and smaller tubing through the bung but I'm also now being sold more on a tilt lol perhaps this the joy of brewing.

 

[Sammy86]

...perhaps this the joy of brewing.

Yes, it's the game of what can I add to the brewery today that the SO won't get mad at...

 

[Christoff]

Ha. She actually encourages my purchases. I’m the one causing the restraint lol

 

[jerrylotto]

I'm not sure if anybody is mentioned it but if you do use a refractometer to measure specific gravity at the end of the fermentation, you have to use a wort correctio factor that is unique to each batch to get an accurate reading. If all you're trying to do is tell if fermentation is done, successive reading is over a few days being the same is good enough.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

I can say that the Tilt is totally worth the money! Simple start up, easy to use and maintain. I recently got a refractometer to help reduce the waste of wort/beer for gravity checks. I still use my hydrometers for checking OG and FG though. I have a finishing gravity hydrometer which is super easy to read, but I digress, getting OT. I always run a fermentation 14 days from when I see activity. I have almost never had a brew not complete by day 10. If your recipe estimations are close for your FG, you'll know when it's close.

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

I'd wait 2 weeks after a fresh propper sized pitch of yeast if you don't want to measure. Or don't measure at all if you don't care about the abc number. If it tastes too sweet, give it more time.

 

[Christoff]

I'm not sure if anybody is mentioned it but if you do use a refractometer to measure specific gravity at the end of the fermentation, you have to use a wort correctio factor that is unique to each batch to get an accurate reading. If all you're trying to do is tell if fermentation is done, successive reading is over a few days being the same is good enough.

Thanks! I ended up getting a refractometer, only to cave and buy a tilt a week later. Ill probably use the refractometer in my smaller batches so this is good to know

 

[Christoff]

I can say that the Tilt is totally worth the money! Simple start up, easy to use and maintain. I recently got a refractometer to help reduce the waste of wort/beer for gravity checks. I still use my hydrometers for checking OG and FG though. I have a finishing gravity hydrometer which is super easy to read, but I digress, getting OT. I always run a fermentation 14 days from when I see activity. I have almost never had a brew not complete by day 10. If your recipe estimations are close for your FG, you'll know when it's close.

Everyone has said that about the tilt. I caved and bought one. I need an excuse to brew more beer now.

 

[Christoff]

Everyone has said that about the tilt. I caved and bought one. I need an excuse to brew more beer now.

also, I am still new enough that I definitely don't trust my recipe estimations. I am still trying to figure all of that out to a point I am confident in it

 

[Off Balance Brewing]

You changed from refract to tilt pretty quick unless I didn't read the time stamp right.

If you keg you could keg you beer before it's done and use a sounding valve to see when the pressure stops building...then it's done...or stalled.

I didn't have much luck with a refrac post fermentation being accurate.

 

[Christoff]

You changed from refract to tilt pretty quick unless I didn't read the time stamp right.

If you keg you could keg you beer before it's done and use a sounding valve to see when the pressure stops building...then it's done...or stalled.

I didn't have much luck with a refrac post fermentation being accurate.

Yeah I did. But it was cheaper and I realized it wasn’t going to solve the parts of the issues I wanted to solve. Now I have both. Oops

 

[jerrylotto]

Yeah I did. But it was cheaper and I realized it wasn’t going to solve the parts of the issues I wanted to solve. Now I have both. Oops

Use the refractometer after your boil to get an OG. Use the tilt to confirm OG and monitor the progress of your fermentation. If you need to do so, double check the final gravity with a hydrometer. Every tool has an application and that's how I use them.

 

[Christoff]

Use the refractometer after your boil to get an OG. Use the tilt to confirm OG and monitor the progress of your fermentation. If you need to do so, double check the final gravity with a hydrometer. Every tool has an application and that's how I use them.

Good idea. Though I use the hydrometer away the tail end of the boil

 

[JohnDBrewer]

When I started homebrewing, I use to want to check and follow the specific gravity all the time. These were the days before technology. I would pull a sample after I pitched the yeast. That sample for my hydrometer would never go back into the fermenter, but be put into a beer bottle, covered loosely with foil and kept in the same area as the fermenter. Ideally touching it so it matches the temp of the fermenter. Then I could test the gravity whenever I wanted and not worry about sanitizing everything, contamination or oxygen exposure.

 

[Christoff]

When I started homebrewing, I use to want to check and follow the specific gravity all the time. These were the days before technology. I would pull a sample after I pitched the yeast. That sample for my hydrometer would never go back into the fermenter, but be put into a beer bottle, covered loosely with foil and kept in the same area as the fermenter. Ideally touching it so it matches the temp of the fermenter. Then I could test the gravity whenever I wanted and not worry about sanitizing everything, contamination or oxygen exposure.

That’s a good idea. I hate messing with beer

 

[ncbrewer]

When I started homebrewing, I use to want to check and follow the specific gravity all the time. These were the days before technology. I would pull a sample after I pitched the yeast. That sample for my hydrometer would never go back into the fermenter, but be put into a beer bottle, covered loosely with foil and kept in the same area as the fermenter. Ideally touching it so it matches the temp of the fermenter. Then I could test the gravity whenever I wanted and not worry about sanitizing everything, contamination or oxygen exposure.

I wouldn't trust the sample gravity to match the main batch gravity. Temperature would likely be different in the small sample, which would affect the rate of fermentation.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Actually it tracks quite closely. That's why I said keep the sample touching the fermenter so the temps are more consistent. I will add you should always check the main batches final gravity especially if bottling. How does Tilt do once krausen or yeast attach to them, or do they float below the surface?

 

[KeizerBrewr]

What @JohnDBrewer is talking about is basically a type of forced ferment test. Instead of on a stir plate in the kitchen, its in a beer bottle so he can keep tabs on fermentation.

 

[jerrylotto]

Actually it tracks quite closely. That's why I said keep the sample touching the fermenter so the temps are more consistent. I will add you should always check the main batches final gravity especially if bottling. How does Tilt do once krausen or yeast attach to them, or do they float below the surface?

Even if attached krausen throws it off a little bit, you can always double check your final gravity using a different method and if there are no changes over a series of a few days fermentation is done, regardless of whether it's an accurate reading or not.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Even if attached krausen throws it off a little bit, you can always double check your final gravity using a different method and if there are no changes over a series of a few days fermentation is done, regardless of whether it's an accurate reading or not.

Exactly, the bottle method is the same. It will track close enough to enjoy th process of tracking your fermentation and give you an idea of when it is done.