How long is too long in primary?

[akthor]

Also old brewing books talk about liquid malt extracts like they are horribly bad like yeast many of our other ingredients have gotten better over the years.

Someday my pipeline will be filled up and I will make a big beer like Revvy's and leave it in primary for months as well. Due to parties and such I have had to keg things after only 2 weeks in primary while others have gone a month, same recipes and I can see and taste but most especially see how much clearer the beer is the longer it sits in primary. Also a Nut Brown I kegged after a month in primary had virtually no sediment in the bottom of the keg after we drank it. An Octoberfest ale that was only in primary for 2 weeks then kegged, then after it was carbed I transferred it to a new clean keg, had wayyyy more sediment in the bottom of the keg when it was done. I'm a true believer now

Even if I am just some guy named AKTHOR

 

[LaurieGator]

I had a Porter and a Double Chocolate Stout that I left in the carboy for over a year... On the yeast cake... I added yeast to it when I bottled it and it turned out very yummy. It is in the "Private Reserve" for friends and family

I had written both of these off since they were in the carboy for such a long time. I think a stout is a little happier if it has a little more time in the carboy in my experience. Your mileage may vary...

 

[poolshark021]

I need to empty my only primary to make room for a new brew. The beer in it has only been there 10 days. Does it make sense to stir up the yeast cake before transfering to secondary to bring as much yeast with it as possible?

 

[corwin3083]

As many others have pointed out, the amount of time a beer has spent in primary isn't a good indication of whether fermentation has finished. You need to take gravity readings to determine that.

If you get the same gravity in two readings spaced over three days, then fermentation has finished.

 

[Freddy57]

I have beers that I brew in October every year, I leave them on the yeast until April. I keg them up and they are delicious for the summer. I don't worry about how long a beer sits on the yeast. In my experience, they just get better over time.

 

[poolshark021]

As many others have pointed out, the amount of time a beer has spent in primary isn't a good indication of whether fermentation has finished. You need to take gravity readings to determine that.

If you get the same gravity in two readings spaced over three days, then fermentation has finished.

I should clarify: I won't move the beer until I my readings confirm primary fermentation is complete. I mentioned it had been 10 days just to show it is nowhere close to the 4 weeks or so that is recommended.

After reading this thread it makes me wonder if I am better off bringing as much yeast as possible with the beer into secondary. If I had room I would just leave it in primary.

Time to buy another primary i guess!

 

[corwin3083]

Buckets are cheap; I just got a second one at the LHBS for $15.

 

[NorCalAdam]

So if I am going to go 3-4 weeks in primary and not use a secondary (only for specials) is plastic ok or should I be doing this in glass?

 

[Revvy]

So if I am going to go 3-4 weeks in primary and not use a secondary (only for specials) is plastic ok or should I be doing this in glass?

Plastic is ok....That's one of those questions that is answered in the Jamil thread where I said, ALL the question anyone could have has been answered in.

 

[msa8967]

What about cold crashing and using gelatin to clarify the beer? Can both of these be done successfully in the primary or would it be better to use a secondary for these? I typically leave all of my brews in the primary for 4 weeks before doing anything else to them.

 

[Andy_LV]

havent played with gelatin (kinda fail to see need for it since I bottle and end up with yeast sediment anyway), but successfully cold crashed and later bottled directly from primary - beer was crystal clear until I had to tip fermenter back and forth and roused yeast cake too much (last 4 bottles out of 44 bottle batch). Tho its no biggie, settled down in bottles anyway and those last 4 bottles carbed and conditioned faster - got a decent taste after just 2 weeks in bottles.

 

[faroutadventure]

Autolysis is a big boogeyman of brewing. Don't worry about it. It's old teaching that's been pretty much disproved. I have a saison that's been sitting in primary since August and I just sampled it last night and there's no sign of off flavors from the yeast cake breaking down whatsoever.

What kind of yeast are you using on that saison?

 

[Justibone]

havent played with gelatin (kinda fail to see need for it since I bottle and end up with yeast sediment anyway), but successfully cold crashed and later bottled directly from primary - beer was crystal clear until I had to tip fermenter back and forth and roused yeast cake too much (last 4 bottles out of 44 bottle batch). Tho its no biggie, settled down in bottles anyway and those last 4 bottles carbed and conditioned faster - got a decent taste after just 2 weeks in bottles.

*gently strokes goatee*
*shreds of a wisp of a hint of an idea form in his maleficent brain*

Bwahahahaha!

I feel like Barney from "How I Met Your Mother"... challenge accepted! :rockin:

 

[dkreidler]

I have the worst primary fermenter tale to tell...though its woefully unfinished. Started a homebrew using a VERY OLD Mr. Beer kit we had given my dad, but which he gave back after being bored with the process. I forget, its the 1.5-2 gallon kit? Either way, I took the basic lager/pale ale(?) mix, added in brown sugar and ginger, and set it fermenting. Fermentation was slllllooowwwww, so I moved the fermenter to a few different places, found one that seemed warm enough to kick-start it a bit... and then promptly forgot about it. That was in... May.

It's still in there.

I'm frankly terrified at this point. Whole thing might hit the trash, since I have a full 6 gal, and won't ever be buying supplies for a mini-kit. Still, might be interesting to draw some off and see what happened over THAT long a time-scale. Probably nothing good...

 

[Revvy]

I'm frankly terrified at this point. Whole thing might hit the trash,

Why are you "frankly terrified?"

Since nothing pathogenic can grow in beer, you can't get sick from it. So there is no reason to fear it. And to contemplate tossing it without even considering tasting it is idiotic...you may be tossing away the best beer you ever tasted...Hell it may be the best mr beer beer ever made.

Like I said I just bottled a 5 month old beer that sat in primary, and it tasted amazing.

 

[dkreidler]

Why are you "frankly terrified?"

Since nothing pathogenic can grow in beer, you can't get sick from it.

You make great points. I left out one key point: There was never great evidence of fermentation. Hence, there is no great evidence of alcohol content. Hence, there is no great evidence of the beer not being able to make anyone sick.

Not even worried about that, in all honesty. It's more the **ASSUMED** (i know...) outcome of old, most likely crappy ingredients, left for 5 months in a crappy fermenter (no airlock...the lid just "vents" air... wtf?!).



I promise I'll at least taste it, and report back. If its fine, great! If its ok and sweet, I'll even toss in some fresh yeast and see what happens! If it gives me the trots, out it goes! :cross:

 

[dcHokie]

I left out one key point: There was never great evidence of fermentation. Hence, there is no great evidence of alcohol content. Hence, there is no great evidence of the beer not being able to make anyone sick.

Gravity readings should give you all the evidence you need.

 

[sportscrazed2]

question i'm brewing a beer that the directions say 2 weeks in primary 2 weeks in bottles. will i see any benefit or downside to letting it sit for a week or two longer?

 

[Hang Glider]

question i'm brewing a beer that the directions say 2 weeks in primary 2 weeks in bottles. will i see any benefit or downside to letting it sit for a week or two longer?

after all the posts you've read to get here ???


forget your directions. They were written by people who want to sell you more beer. (well, forget the timing, anyway).

4 weeks would be better, then 3 in the bottle. you WILL CERTAINLY see a benefit to letting it sit longer - cleaner, clearer, better beer!

 

[lamarguy]

you WILL CERTAINLY see a benefit to letting it sit longer - cleaner, clearer, better beer!

Disagree. Once a beer has matured, that's it; more time does NOT necessarily equate to "better" beer.

Some beers mature in a week, others two, and still others six weeks or longer. The key is to provide a proper fermentation (sufficient healthy yeast, temperature control, etc.) and sample the beer periodically.

 

[dcHokie]

4 weeks would be better, then 3 in the bottle. you WILL CERTAINLY see a benefit to letting it sit longer - cleaner, clearer, better beer!

Disagree. Once a beer has matured, that's it; more time does NOT necessarily equate to "better" beer.

Some beers mature in a week, others two, and still others six weeks or longer. The key is to provide a proper fermentation (sufficient healthy yeast, temperature control, etc.) and sample the beer periodically.

I believe the disagreement here is based on different interpretations of ‘mature’ (correct me if I’m wrong guys).

True, some (but not many) beers may reach their desired FG in one week, but I think what many here are saying is that even after reaching FG, additional time in primary allows the yeast to finish more completely. The result is most often a cleaner, clearer, better beer. This is my experience

 

[sportscrazed2]

I think I will give it 3 weeks probably not 4. 2 weeks as per directions and 1 for clarifying. can't hurt anything and will give me more time to drink as many bombers as possible for bottling

 

[mikeysab]

I believe the disagreement here is based on different interpretations of ‘mature’ (correct me if I’m wrong guys).

True, some (but not many) beers may reach their desired FG in one week, but I think what many here are saying is that even after reaching FG, additional time in primary allows the yeast to finish more completely. The result is most often a cleaner, clearer, better beer. This is my experience

I've read about beers going from grain to glass in a little over a week. Maybe a simple cream ale, or a steam beer. Obviously has to be kegged, but those aren't very complex beers. I think a beer that's a little more complex NEEDS time to mature. If you take a beer that just finished fermenting, kegged it, and drank it the next day, most beers would be drinkable, but you'd rather let them mature and be ready. Yeasts are more complex than just eating sugar and making alcohol. They're polite, and clean up after themselves, and turn our wort into glorious beer. They need a chance to do it though. Once fermentation is over, that doesn't mean the whole process is over.

Revvy, please tell me this isn't your dog:

 

[lamarguy]

I believe the disagreement here is based on different interpretations of ‘mature’ (correct me if I’m wrong guys).

The disagreement is about making a blanket statement such as "4 weeks in primary will result in a better beer". Once a beer is mature (i.e., flavor stable), there is no benefit to leaving it on the yeast. Every beer is different.

My point is, you should sample your beer periodically throughout fermentation, especially during maturation. If it's not ready, give it more time or take evasive steps to correct an undesirable flavor/aroma issue (e.g., high FG, diacetyl, etc.).

Fermentation isn't like waiting for paint to dry. It's a biological process that should be monitored.

 

[ChshreCat]

What kind of yeast are you using on that saison?

Wyeast 3711

 

[notjustgc]

I just came across this Q&A with John Palmer that addresses this issue directly. He couldn't be more crystal clear in his response.

Tom from Michigan asks:
I have a few questions about secondary fermentations. I've read both pros and cons for 2nd fermentations and it is driving me crazy what to do. One, are they necessary for lower Gravity beers?
Two, what is the dividing line between low gravity and high gravity beers? Is it 1.060 and higher?
Three, I have an American Brown Ale in the primary right now, a SG of 1.058, Should I secondary ferment this or not?
Your advice is appreciated, thanks for all you do!

Allen from New York asks:
John, please talk about why or why not you would NOT use a secondary fermenter (bright tank?) and why or why not a primary only fermentation is a good idea. In other words, give some clarification or reason why primary only is fine, versus the old theory of primary then secondary normal gravity ale fermentations.

Palmer answers:
These are good questions – When and why would you need to use a secondary fermenter? First some background – I used to recommend racking a beer to a secondary fermenter. My recommendation was based on the premise that (20 years ago) larger (higher gravity) beers took longer to ferment completely, and that getting the beer off the yeast reduced the risk of yeast autolysis (ie., meaty or rubbery off-flavors) and it allowed more time for flocculation and clarification, reducing the amount of yeast and trub carryover to the bottle. Twenty years ago, a homebrewed beer typically had better flavor, or perhaps less risk of off-flavors, if it was racked off the trub and clarified before bottling. Today that is not the case.

The risk inherent to any beer transfer, whether it is fermenter-to-fermenter or fermenter-to-bottles, is oxidation and staling. Any oxygen exposure after fermentation will lead to staling, and the more exposure, and the warmer the storage temperature, the faster the beer will go stale.

Racking to a secondary fermenter used to be recommended because staling was simply a fact of life – like death and taxes. But the risk of autolysis was real and worth avoiding – like cholera. In other words, you know you are going to die eventually, but death by cholera is worth avoiding.

But then modern medicine appeared, or in our case, better yeast and better yeast-handling information. Suddenly, death by autolysis is rare for a beer because of two factors: the freshness and health of the yeast being pitched has drastically improved, and proper pitching rates are better understood. The yeast no longer drop dead and burst like Mr. Creosote from Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life when fermentation is complete – they are able to hibernate and wait for the next fermentation to come around. The beer has time to clarify in the primary fermenter without generating off-flavors. With autolysis no longer a concern, staling becomes the main problem. The shelf life of a beer can be greatly enhanced by avoiding oxygen exposure and storing the beer cold (after it has had time to carbonate).

Therefore I, and Jamil and White Labs and Wyeast Labs, do not recommend racking to a secondary fermenter for ANY ale, except when conducting an actual second fermentation, such as adding fruit or souring. Racking to prevent autolysis is not necessary, and therefore the risk of oxidation is completely avoidable. Even lagers do not require racking to a second fermenter before lagering. With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl. The real purpose of lagering a beer is to use the colder temperatures to encourage the yeast to flocculate and promote the precipitation and sedimentation of microparticles and haze.

So, the new rule of thumb: don’t rack a beer to a secondary, ever, unless you are going to conduct a secondary fermentation.

 

[Revvy]

I just came across this Q&A with John Palmer that addresses this issue directly. He couldn't be more crystal clear in his response.

Thanks for finding this and posting this!!!! It's his most direct answer yet!!!! Though it seems he's been reading my writing for the last 5 years...he kinda took some of that stuff verbatum from here. LOL.

 

[mikeysab]

Can that single post be made into a sticky? Or can every new member of HBT be made aware of this post? The question is still asked daily on HBT, even though it's all over the place. Instead of a decal, every new member should be sent a poster with that statement on it.

 

[benharper13]

Fat people are hard to kidnap your right mikeysab.

 

[Revvy]

Can that single post be made into a sticky? Or can every new member of HBT be made aware of this post? The question is still asked daily on HBT, even though it's all over the place. Instead of a decal, every new member should be sent a poster with that statement on it.

Yeah I wish...but that's why I posted it in this thread and the uber no-secondary thread, and will probably add it to a "blogpost" with what I've written, I wanted to have it in a form where I could search myself and find it.