How long do i wait?

[Rob2010SS]

Hey peeps. Brewed a session ale yesterday, about 27-28 hours ago. OG was 1.041 and pitched a packet of danstar bry-97 dry yeast. I did rehydrate the yeast in 100 ml of distilled water heated to 110*F and let it cool. By the time i sprinkled the yeast in the heated water it was about 87*F. I let it rehydrate for 20 min, gently stirred and pitched in carboy. I realized after pitching i didn't shake the carboy first (to aerate) but i did have to pour the wort through a strainer to remove the whole leaf hops i used so i figured that would have aerated enough.

As of right now, there is no sign of fermentation. No movement of particles in liquid, no air lock activity, no krausen, no nothing. My question is how long do i wait before i pitch more yeast? And if nothing starts, is pitching more yeast my solution?

Thanks guys.

 

[doug293cz]

Wait up to 72 hours before repitching. If you are impatient, repitching sooner won't hurt.

Brew on

 

[jrgtr42]

You sprinkled the yeast into 110-degree water? You may well have killed the yeast, or at least a goodly percentage of them. Top temp for brewers yeast is about 100 degrees. Any higher is no good at all for them. Also, if it's distilled water, there's really no reason to heat and then cool back down.
If I'm rehydrating, I do it at approximately pitching temp, no more than 10 degrees higher. This will give them a head start at about fermenting temp.
Honestly, with fry yeast, it's not really required that you rehydrate (it's not a bad habit to get into)
I would probably say to repitch as soon as reasonable. Just sprinkle the yeast on top of the wort at this point.

 

[kh54s10]

You sprinkled the yeast into 110-degree water? You may well have killed the yeast, or at least a goodly percentage of them. Top temp for brewers yeast is about 100 degrees. Any higher is no good at all for them. Also, if it's distilled water, there's really no reason to heat and then cool back down.
If I'm rehydrating, I do it at approximately pitching temp, no more than 10 degrees higher. This will give them a head start at about fermenting temp.
Honestly, with fry yeast, it's not really required that you rehydrate (it's not a bad habit to get into)
I would probably say to repitch as soon as reasonable. Just sprinkle the yeast on top of the wort at this point.

It is not likely that 110 degree water would kill the yeast. One manufacturer of yeast that I have used suggests 109. It would take over 140 to harm the yeast. But the OP said the water was 87 when he added the yeast.

I would wait another day or so before adding yeast.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, from the Lallemond BRY97 tds:

"Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight in clean,
sterilized water at 30-35°C (86-95F)."

fwiw, 87°F would be just one degree higher than the hydration temperature range specified by Fermentis...

Cheers!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I'll give it till tonight then. If i see no activity ill pitch the packet of US05 i have in my fridge.

If i end up having to re pitch, would it harm anything to give the beer a good shake for aeration at this point since i didn't do that originally?

 

[Rob2010SS]

So, Lallemands spec sheet says NOT to use distilled water for rehydrating... I wonder if that's what happened to this yeast as I did use distilled water.

So I'm planning on repitching tonight when I get home. Does anyone see anything wrong with shaking the wort at this point since fermentation hasn't begun?

Thanks.

 

[Miraculix]

Bad news mate, we made an experiment in school once with distilled water and placed a piece of potato in it... The salt content in the potato cells was higher than outside, as distilled water contains zero salt. This results in uncontrollable water inflow into the cells, till they burst... In other words, with pure distilled water you kill the yeast.

 

[jrgtr42]

It is not likely that 110 degree water would kill the yeast. One manufacturer of yeast that I have used suggests 109. It would take over 140 to harm the yeast. But the OP said the water was 87 when he added the yeast.

I would wait another day or so before adding yeast.

I was reading it as he heated to water to 110, added the yeast, then let it cool. It was 87 when he pitched it to the wort.
I've repeatedly read in a lot of different places that much over 100 will kill the yeast, I think the consensus was 105 is the upper limit. They always said to keep rehydration under 100 to be safe.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I did not rehydrate at 110. I waited until the water was at 87*F, sprinkled the yeast on top, and let it sit for 20 min, gently stirred and pitched. So to clarify, the distilled water was at 87*F for rehydration. After reading Miraculix's comment, I think I'm just screwed at this point and need to repitch.

That being said, can someone tell me if I'm ok to shake up the wort at this point for re-pitching?

Thanks.

 

[Baabaad00]

Just a guess here:

Since the yeast are all dead that you pitched (most likely), the wort has settled and oxygen usually diffuses out, like CO2 does out of carbonated soda so if you want to re-oxygenate, then repitch & not use distilled water, theoretically/scientifically that makes sense to me. Having said that, I've not done this myself and my experience is limited.

I believe people oxygenate their no-chill wort cubes after they've sat a while. I can't imagine this would be much different.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Alright, I went home on my lunch break and re-pitched. With the air lock still on, I gave the carboy a good shaking to get some oxygen in the wort, enough to see bubbles on top. I sanitized the yeast pack, the scissors, my hands, then pulled off the airlock, cut the corner of the yeast pack and pitched the new yeast (US-05). Re-sanitized the airlock and installed it. Should be good to go now!

I must say, I took a whiff of the wort prior to re-sealing and boy does it smell fantastic! This was supposed to be a SMASH Session Ale (see hop schedule below) but as I was feeling adventurous, I added a 2oz addition of freshly dried, whole hop cones at the 10 minute left mark. I also plan to add some fresh hop cones to the dry hop schedule, 1 or 2 oz, haven't decided yet. Really loved the smell of this one.

I appreciate all the help on this one guys.

 

[jrgtr42]

I probably would have recommended you test the gravity before repitching, but you haven't hurt anything. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I probably would have recommended you test the gravity before repitching, but you haven't hurt anything. Hope it all works out for you.

Why would you say that? To ensure that the first yeast are actually dead and not active?

 

[Baabaad00]

Because people have fermented in buckets claiming no activity due to no bubbles in their airlocks, but the fermentor actually leaked air due to a bad seal. My mead does this, but beer usually has noticeable krausen whereas mead does not. You may have killed most yeast and enough survived to have a bit of activity and reproduce. Either way, this increases the population and doesn't stress out whatever little bit is in their, but a hydrometer is a definite way to precisely measure yeast activity.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Understood. And i would mostly agree with you. One of the common signs of activity though, from what I've seen, is movement of particles in the liquid. I've seen it in the 3 batches Ive done and the ones my buddy has done. You could literally see suspended particles in the wort just sitting there, not doing anything. This in combination with no krausen or bubbles after almost 3 days told me something was wrong, so i decided to re pitch.

Either way it's going strong now with the new yeast so i think this one will be ok. Thanks again for the help.

 

[jrgtr42]

Why would you say that? To ensure that the first yeast are actually dead and not active?

That's exactly why. As BaabAad said, often times there is fermentation going on with none of the normal indicators. Sounds like things are cooking along in there now, so it's good.