How long can a starter last

[McMullan]

Something has been on my mind about all the sanitary talk with yeast but then mixing unsanitary air into it. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Like boiling isn’t enough it has to be in a pressure cooker etc. but then we put on a stir plate or shake it to get air into it. So what gives?

Yeast are pretty tough microbes and outcompete most things microbial that get dispersed in air. One of their secret weapons is ethanol. When we culture them up at high density and pitch at such high rates there's a kind of safety in numbers, too. Good sanitary practices - including personal hygiene - aren't necessarily about minimising airborne microbes. Most infections - beer spoilage microbes - probably result from 'biofilms' establishing on surfaces, nooks and crannies containing organic residues. Cleaning said surfaces, nooks and crannies is probably >99% of good sanitary technique.

 

[redrocker652002]

You definitely need to insulate a brew kettle that's used as a mash/BIAB tun, even if you brewed in Death Valley in mid Summer.
Put some insulation, such as folded up towels or a sleeping bag on the lid too. That only leaves the bottom exposed to ambient temps and any breeze.

Just don't fire the burner while there's any flammable insulation around the kettle.


It should help keeping the mash warmer. If outdoors, you may still want to wrap a sleeping bag around it, especially when it's cold or breezy. And put something on top too, the lid has no insulation in it.

Make a mental note, in a cooler mash tun, it's easier to drop the mash 3-5 degrees (by longer stirring or simply adding a small amount of cold water) than it is to raise it by the same amount, even when adding boiling water.

Batch sparging is easy, and awesome!
Good stirring is key for all mashes and (batch) sparges.

Yep,, I am going to wrap it up as best as I can to try and keep the temp in check for the hour mash. I have a 5 gallon pot that I put on the stove for my sparge water. Last time I dipped the grain back into it, but it made a bit of a mess, so I am not sure what my plan is this time. LOL

I brew in the garage and crack open the door just to keep the flame exhaust to a minimum. It has worked out pretty well so far but I think the cooler will be a big addition and all i I think it will cost me less then 50 bucks to get it going. Good info on the water temp, I will make a note of it. It will be a learning process, but it has been so far.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a 5 gallon pot that I put on the stove for my sparge water. Last time I dipped the grain back into it, but it made a bit of a mess, so I am not sure what my plan is this time. LOL

You'd need a bigger vessel to sparge...
"Dunk sparging" is probably the most common procedure for sparging BIAB bags. I'm not sure what kind of vessels brewers use. A larger sparge kettle? Larger, 8-10 gallon bucket, if they exist? A large tub?

Once you start using your new mash tun, (batch) sparging becomes so easy, and virtually mess free.

A few hints:
For 5 gallon, 1.060-1.066 OG batches I mash 12-13 pounds of grist at a thickness of around 1.5 quarts per pound. That mash thickness has been working best for me, any thicker and I get mixing/conversion/temp drop issues. That comes out at around 5 gallons of strike water for the mash, for that target OG.

I then split the remainder of the water into 2 equal volumes, around 2.2 gallons per sparge, doing 2 consecutive sparges. The exact volume used for each batch sparge cycle is not super critical, but you want them to be close for best efficiency.
I do regular vorlaufing to get reasonably clear wort without grain bits. Then fully drain the tun each time, before adding the next volume of water. Good stirring after adding each water addition is needed to "knock" the sugars out of the grain bits, and into solution.

My mash tun is a converted rectangular 54 quart (13.5 gallon) Coleman Extreme cooler, which drains completely due to the drain opening being recessed in the bottom. I chose for making a manifold (shown upside down in the pictures, for illustration). But a bazooka tube or stainless braid would work just as fine too.

Although it's not all that critical, as long as it's not a huge volume, you may need to tilt your round tun toward the exit valve at the end of the lauter to more completely drain it. It depends on how the high the spigot hole is on the inside and how well you can keep the siphon going while draining.

Instead of pouring the grist into the preheated strike water, I fill the (dry) mash tun with (milled) grist. Then underlet it with preheated (and mineral treated) strike water from the boil kettle.*
Underletting the grist is an effort to reduce O2 take-up.
I'm working on building a better "mash cover." Aside from reducing heat loss to the head space, it also helps to reduce the grist's oxygen take-up.

* You'll need to calculate the temp of your strike water, taking the weight and temp of your grist into account, as well as temp losses to the mash tun and air/environment while mashing in. Most programs like BeerSmith, Brewfather, Brewers Friend, etc. can do most of the calcs for you.

For reference , since I'm underletting, and thus can't effectively preheat my mash tun, for ~13 pounds of 68F grist, I end up heating 5 gallons of strike water to a temp of 178F to hit a mash temp of 154F pretty much on the nose. This is after completely stirring/mixing, putting the mash cover and lid on, and letting the mash settle for about 5 minutes. Then the mash proceeds for a total of 60'.

 

[redrocker652002]

You'd need a bigger vessel to sparge...
"Dunk sparging" is probably the most common procedure for sparging BIAB bags. I'm not sure what kind of vessels brewers use. A larger sparge kettle? Larger, 8-10 gallon bucket, if they exist? A large tub?

Once you start using your new mash tun, (batch) sparging becomes so easy, and virtually mess free.

A few hints:
For 5 gallon, 1.060-1.066 OG batches I mash 12-13 pounds of grist at a thickness of around 1.5 quarts per pound. That mash thickness has been working best for me, any thicker and I get mixing/conversion/temp drop issues. That comes out at around 5 gallons of strike water for the mash, for that target OG.

I then split the remainder of the water into 2 equal volumes, around 2.2 gallons per sparge, doing 2 consecutive sparges. The exact volume used for each batch sparge cycle is not super critical, but you want them to be close for best efficiency.
I do regular vorlaufing to get reasonably clear wort without grain bits. Then fully drain the tun each time, before adding the next volume of water. Good stirring after adding each water addition is needed to "knock" the sugars out of the grain bits, and into solution.

My mash tun is a converted rectangular 54 quart (13.5 gallon) Coleman Extreme cooler, which drains completely due to the drain opening being recessed in the bottom. I chose for making a manifold (shown upside down in the pictures, for illustration). But a bazooka tube or stainless braid would work just as fine too.

View attachment 784468
View attachment 784469

Although it's not all that critical, as long as it's not a huge volume, you may need to tilt your round tun toward the exit valve at the end of the lauter to more completely drain it. It depends on how the high the spigot hole is on the inside and how well you can keep the siphon going while draining.

Instead of pouring the grist into the preheated strike water, I fill the (dry) mash tun with (milled) grist. Then underlet it with preheated (and mineral treated) strike water from the boil kettle.*
Underletting the grist is an effort to reduce O2 take-up.
I'm working on building a better "mash cover." Aside from reducing heat loss to the head space, it also helps to reduce the grist's oxygen take-up.

* You'll need to calculate the temp of your strike water, taking the weight and temp of your grist into account, as well as temp losses to the mash tun and air/environment while mashing in. Most programs like BeerSmith, Brewfather, Brewers Friend, etc. can do most of the calcs for you.

For reference , since I'm underletting, and thus can't effectively preheat my mash tun, for ~13 pounds of 68F grist, I end up heating 5 gallons of strike water to a temp of 178F to hit a mash temp of 154F pretty much on the nose. This is after completely stirring/mixing, putting the mash cover and lid on, and letting the mash settle for about 5 minutes. Then the mash proceeds for a total of 60'.

Wow, a lot of info. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this up I am going to print it and put it with my notebook for the next brew. My thought is, with a dedicated Mash tun, my hope is my efficiency gets better, my sparging gets better and in the end, my beer get better. LOL

 

[redrocker652002]

Just a quick note, the starter showed some signs of bubbling on the surface of it when I looked at it this morning. The yeast, or whatever, was caked at the bottom, kinda in clumps. I poured it into my wort, cooled to about 66 degrees shook it a bit to get it mixed in and let it go. I will check it in the morning to see what might be going on. I am not holding much hope, but what the heck, I have some S05 I can add to try and salvage it if the WLP002 is not working. Either way, this was a good brew, a few lessons learned on this one RR

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I am with Hawkwing. Air contains bacteria. I use Vit C and nutrient with dried SO4 yeast. Jar covered with clingfilm. Pitch in 1 to 2 hours.

 

[redrocker652002]

After day 1, all the sanitizer in the airlock is now on the exit side of the airlock, I made sure it was even when I put it in, so maybe there is some hope. I will check on the morning.

 

[redrocker652002]

After day 2, and nothing. Sanitizer has evenly distributed itself in the airlock and no activity. I am going to dump my packet of S05 in it to try and salvage it. I am not sure if the yeast died in my fridge or during the starter process. Either way, I think I am going to use dry yeast from now on. This is my second attempt at liquid and neither worked out well. Thanks to all who gave me input. I appreciate it.

 

[McMullan]

Are you sure it's the yeast? Maybe your hydrometer needs more patience.

 

[redrocker652002]

Are you sure it's the yeast? Maybe your hydrometer needs more patience.

I am just making an assumption, but who knows. You recommend waiting a bit longer? I am off Thursday morning and was thinking of going by my LBS and see what yeast I can use that might be better than S05. I just read dry Lutra is a good one for blonde but my closet in my house only gets in the upper 60's low 70's, so that might now be right.

 

[hawkwing]

Things take longer when cooler. I would suggest making a starter next time and waiting to see life before mashing.