How old is the stove/burner? The burner could be getting weak, and a new burner may help.
How high temp drives off DMS?
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How old is the stove/burner? The burner could be getting weak, and a new burner may help.
That illustrates it very well. Yowsers!
That's no more than a simmer. How do you manage to cook on that thing at all?
Good point about the age of the elements.
Also, are you sure it's hooked up correctly? As in "2-phase" you guys have there in Europe. Maybe it's only a 1-phase or a 2-phase on a 1-phase circuit?
How's the oven working? Better?
I just watched your video. What's the diameter of the burner? When the pot is sitting on the burner is the bottom of the pot touching any other part of the stove surface? If it is, then the stove could be sinking heat away from the pot.
Not good.
That is 6L in the pot simmering, meaning even a 1 gallon batch (estimated preboil 1.5gallons) can't get up to a rolling boil. I'm all out of suggestions. The stove is not up to the task. No way around that fact it would seem.
OP
OP
i had potatoes boiling, super heavy boil, on one of the other elements at the same time in 4L of water. so it could possibly be that it's losing heat to the sides of the burner.
it very well could be hooked up incorrectly. the oven works just fine. my wife even questioned if we could just boil it in the oven.
Yeah, stop there. Most of Europe (probably all but I hate absolutes) uses 220/230/240, 50 hz, single phase. If the stove works, the electrical is not the issue.
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OP
OP
well i took a new video. doing the long work of splitting this batch into three 6L boils. only sticking with this because i had already bought and crushed the grains, and they were all mixed. but i think i got a good enough boil at 6L now, temps at about 98.5, possibly 99. so hopefully it works. will def report back with the results in a couple weeks.
hanuswalrus
Well-Known Member
When I went AG, I decided to scale down my recipes to 3 gallon. I do ~4.25 pre boil volume and usually boil down to 3.25 gal into the fermenter.
I did run an experiment one time to see if I could split the batch into 2 different kettles to achieve a higher temp (I can get right up to 210-211 on one burner, which is good enough. just wanted to experiment to see if I could get up to 212). I noticed that, even after splitting it into 2 kettles (2.5 galllons into each), my stove will still only get the wort up to 211, no matter how long I boiled for. This led me to believe that that was just the max temp my stove could get me to (for boiling wort, anyways), and in order to get up to 212 or beyond, I would need more BTUs (propane burner)..
I did run an experiment one time to see if I could split the batch into 2 different kettles to achieve a higher temp (I can get right up to 210-211 on one burner, which is good enough. just wanted to experiment to see if I could get up to 212). I noticed that, even after splitting it into 2 kettles (2.5 galllons into each), my stove will still only get the wort up to 211, no matter how long I boiled for. This led me to believe that that was just the max temp my stove could get me to (for boiling wort, anyways), and in order to get up to 212 or beyond, I would need more BTUs (propane burner)..
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I watched the video, that boil looks pretty weak. Probably too weak for brewing beer. I think you need a new stove, but if you can't do anything about that, a smaller diameter pot might help. If you can get a heat stick, that would be an easy solution.
The bubbles are right in the center of the water, so it looks like just a small burner is doing the heating.
The bubbles are right in the center of the water, so it looks like just a small burner is doing the heating.
Boiling temperature is dependent on a number of factors and once a liquid is boiling it won't rise in temperature anymore. All the supplied energy goes into evaporation without temperature rise. Even if you dropped a few hot rods of plutonium the temperature would still not rise beyond boiling temps. It is called latent heat of evaporation. 211f is a solid boil.
It's only 212 with Distilled water at 1atm pressure. Humidity is also in the mix but I'm not sure what the standard value is. Lots of variables will affect it in other words.
Now you're speaking my language!
OP
OP
So I split this batch into 3, all from the same mash (since the grains were all mixed already).
1st one (the second video i took, but i couldn't get it to work to upload onto here), actually got a pretty good boil, and i got up to 98.5C. it kept that boil for 90 mins actually. so that was good.
Then I split the last 2/3 again, and this time just couldn't get a solid enough boil going. by the time i felt like i was burning off to much liquid and not a good enough boil, i got them into 5L pots. such a headache. the one got a really nice rolling boil for the last 30mins. the other one i had to split off actually about 2L into an even smaller pot because it was boiling like crazy.
in the end i got all 3 cooled quickly, waited until i got all 3 into the fermenter and mixed really well. got an og of 1.060 at 10.2L when I was shooting for 1.051 at 12L. So i decided to top of with about 1L which beersmith said should've dropped the og to about 1.055.
The one thing that I'm hopeful about is that I got enough of a boil this time, and never put a lid on any of the boils, so hopefully no DMS. It's an American wheat with lots of late hops. It smells and tastes great so far. Plan on splitting the batch back into 3 for a bit of a secondary, dry hopping one, putting lemon zest in the second, and putting strawberries into the third.
I guess it all means that I need to go the route of splitting it into 5L pots for boiling from here on out, or put a pause on the all-grain until I can get an immersion heater (definitely don't have a way to buy a new stove). It is starting to be summer, so one thought i considered this evening was setting up the charcoal grill and attempting to boil on top of that. but i didn't wanna completely screw over my pot.
1st one (the second video i took, but i couldn't get it to work to upload onto here), actually got a pretty good boil, and i got up to 98.5C. it kept that boil for 90 mins actually. so that was good.
Then I split the last 2/3 again, and this time just couldn't get a solid enough boil going. by the time i felt like i was burning off to much liquid and not a good enough boil, i got them into 5L pots. such a headache. the one got a really nice rolling boil for the last 30mins. the other one i had to split off actually about 2L into an even smaller pot because it was boiling like crazy.
in the end i got all 3 cooled quickly, waited until i got all 3 into the fermenter and mixed really well. got an og of 1.060 at 10.2L when I was shooting for 1.051 at 12L. So i decided to top of with about 1L which beersmith said should've dropped the og to about 1.055.
The one thing that I'm hopeful about is that I got enough of a boil this time, and never put a lid on any of the boils, so hopefully no DMS. It's an American wheat with lots of late hops. It smells and tastes great so far. Plan on splitting the batch back into 3 for a bit of a secondary, dry hopping one, putting lemon zest in the second, and putting strawberries into the third.
I guess it all means that I need to go the route of splitting it into 5L pots for boiling from here on out, or put a pause on the all-grain until I can get an immersion heater (definitely don't have a way to buy a new stove). It is starting to be summer, so one thought i considered this evening was setting up the charcoal grill and attempting to boil on top of that. but i didn't wanna completely screw over my pot.
hanuswalrus
Well-Known Member
This is great info. Thanks a lot, man!
I forget who told me this, but I was told that 210-211 is sometimes not a high enough temp for proper hop isomerization in the boil. Don't know where this person got that info. Thanks for putting that worry to rest.
No worries. Glad to help. I think a lower boiling temperature would only be an issue for hops at very high altitudes where water boils at a much lower temperature. I don't know what altitude that would be however.
very wrong, stoves tend to have a special 2-phase connector in europe as well, or even 3-phase in most nordic countries(for example finland uses 3-phase 380 volt)
Unless his is very old and would border on being illegal.
OP
OP
yeah i'm pretty sure it's 3-phase, and that it's hooked up correctly. although i haven't pulled the socket out of the wall.
got a picture or model nr? (i'm finnish, so we tend to use the same stoves here, i might be able to find out more about the stove)
Interesting and I apologize for spreading incorrect information. Both of my apartments in Germany and Liechtenstein used a separate "hob" and oven and both were single phase, though a 4-wire plug if I remember correctly, and we know this because the breaker box was only a single phase box with all single phase breakers. I assumed that was pretty common.
+1^ @Kharnynb
AFAIK, most conventional (non-electronic) electric stoves use bimetallic thermal controls to switch the current supplied to the coil on and off. Some fancier ones have a thermocouple control in the burner itself. Aside from incorrect hookup (wiring), it is possible the controls are faulty, the coils are malfunctioning, or of the wrong type or rating. More likely they simply don't have enough output.
That's why it's handy to know what the wattage rating of them is. Most coils I've seen in Europe are enclosed in a cast iron disk and integrated into the top. The ones in the US are mostly plug-ins. The wattage rating is stamped into the connector. I have one of those dual portable burners that's 1500W (750W for each plate), and it can barely boil a gallon pot.
AFAIK, most conventional (non-electronic) electric stoves use bimetallic thermal controls to switch the current supplied to the coil on and off. Some fancier ones have a thermocouple control in the burner itself. Aside from incorrect hookup (wiring), it is possible the controls are faulty, the coils are malfunctioning, or of the wrong type or rating. More likely they simply don't have enough output.
That's why it's handy to know what the wattage rating of them is. Most coils I've seen in Europe are enclosed in a cast iron disk and integrated into the top. The ones in the US are mostly plug-ins. The wattage rating is stamped into the connector. I have one of those dual portable burners that's 1500W (750W for each plate), and it can barely boil a gallon pot.
ah, old school german 3 phase perilex, i remember those.
They are being phased out. they are still technically 3 phase, just very weirdly wired.
There is some very rare "travel"style basic plug-in hobs, but they are limited to less than 3000W total.
is most common nowadays
OP
OP
well the good news is that i was wrong. it was just green beer. i'm not sure if there's a difference in all-grain vs. extract green tasting beer, but my gut tells me there must be. i've tasted all of my beers throughout the process since i've started, and they've never tasted this "green." but at least it's not dms and now i know that i'm doing enough to drive it off.
