How fast fermentation to glass?

[butterpants]

Been experimenting with just how fast I can push a session strength beer out the door with the equipment and techniques avail to me.

Last week I took 10 gallons of1.050 ESB and split it. Pitched about 150 billion cells from am active starter of Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire) and the other got a hydrated 11g packet of S-04. Both aerated 0.5 lpm for 30 seconds and pitched at 60F. Fermentation was held at 70F.

Day 5:

1469 still had a thick mat of kreusen and had not flocculated at all. Smells nicely fruity and toasty. Sample is carbing but it appears done with no faults. Gravity was 1.014

S-04 had dropped almost bright and was also at 1.014.....but diacetyl was very much detectable, didn't even have to force test it.

I'm a sanitation nazi so I doubt it's an infection. The wort stability test after 5 days in an incubator is still clear n microbe free. Gotta be the yeast and a time thing. I was hoping to see both get pushed from grain to glas in a week but it looks as if S-04 can't handle it.

Thoughts? How fast are you going grain to glass in a rush? I realize the normal convention is 3 weeks primary but the point of this was to push the envelope.

 

[Yooper]

Thoughts? How fast are you going grain to glass in a rush? I realize the normal convention is 3 weeks primary but the point of this was to push the envelope.

I don't think that the 'normal convention is three weeks primary'- I think there are a very vocal minority who do those long primaries, but I dislike the flavor imparted by lengthy primaries. My position if the beer is done, and clear (or clearing), it's not going to get 'doner'.

Anyway, I generally do 7-10 days in the fermenter before kegging or bottling, but it depends on the yeast strain and the OG of the beer. A mild, usually an OG of 1.037 with a flocculant yeast strain, can be kegged on day 5 or so. An imperial beer, with an OG of 1.085 might take 5-7 days to ferment out and then I generally leave the beer in the fermenter for 3 days or more once the FG is reached, assuming the beer is fairly clear. If I'm dryhopping that beer, I will add the dryhops for 3-5 days before packaging.

For something fun to consider, take a look at this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/project-10der-mild-10-milds-10-days-month-10-a-77758/

We did a mild swap where we all made a mild, fermented it out, carbed it up, and sent it out the door by day 10. It was fun to do, and it shows that a beer doesn't need forever to be great!

 

[dkevinb]

I typically do 2 weeks in primary and 2 weeks in the bottle. It's always done fermenting after 2 weeks, so I could probably go shorter. It's usually carbonated after 1 week, and I do cheat and drink them early at times. That's for average ales, mostly pale ales and ambers. They're all very drinkable at 3-4 weeks, even bottling. I find they peak at about a month from bottling, then the hops start to fade pretty fast.

 

[Upthewazzu]

My schedule generally is as follows

Primary: 5-7 days
dry hop: 5-7 days
keg: on day 10-14

I tend to do pretty hoppy IPA's, thus I prefer to enjoy them as soon as possible to get that face-punch of hop aroma. Sometimes that schedule doesn't work, such as my Kolsch and Scottish ale. Both needed extended conditioning to be drinkable.

 

[ram5ey]

Most of my regular strength beers are kegged around day 10. I did a scottish 60-/ that was kegged on day 6 and scored a couple 43s so I dont buy the whole 3 week primary thing either. The beer is done when it's done.

 

[nthammer]

If its done fermenting, with no diacetyl, its done. I always get beers kegged by the two week mark. I do notice though that an extra week or two of keg conditioning really helps the beer, as well as clear it out

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Gotta be the yeast and a time thing.

IT was a temp thing S-04 can ferment a 1.040 mild in 3 days at 63 F (and that is wort temp)...be totally done in 5-6 days. If you drop it into the high 50's it takes considerably longer.

S-04 has been reported as "tart" by many but I think most of us agree that the other "off" flavors it is notorious for are due to fermenting too warm for that yeast.

 

[Remmy]

11 days is my best (10 days of fermentation; 1 day carbonating) from grain to glass.

It takes me one day to carb the beer (I keg). And usually have beers fermenting (or done fermenting) without a keg kicking. If I had a free keg, I'd try 8-9 days depending on the beer (has to have an OG in the middle range).

 

[Natdavis777]

Typically my beer is ready to keg after 14 days. If I am dryhopping a beer, I do so in the primary after the krausen has fallen (usually around day 5-7), give it a week of dry hop, and package.

The exception is the IPA I am doing now. I am letting it finish, then I am going to cold crash/gelatin, then warm back up and dryhop for a week, then package. This is an experiment Im doing to compare gelatin effects on hop aroma (Ill post my results in a new thread)

 

[1975brewer]

ON THE 7TH DAY HE RELAXED & DRANK BEER.
That was last winter & the keezer was empty it was 5° so the keg chilled fast & so did I. After standing outside rocking that keg to chill & carb it I needed a beer.

 

[Clonefan94]

I don't think that the 'normal convention is three weeks primary'- I think there are a very vocal minority who do those long primaries, but I dislike the flavor imparted by lengthy primaries. My position if the beer is done, and clear (or clearing), it's not going to get 'doner'.

Anyway, I generally do 7-10 days in the fermenter before kegging or bottling, but it depends on the yeast strain and the OG of the beer. A mild, usually an OG of 1.037 with a flocculant yeast strain, can be kegged on day 5 or so. An imperial beer, with an OG of 1.085 might take 5-7 days to ferment out and then I generally leave the beer in the fermenter for 3 days or more once the FG is reached, assuming the beer is fairly clear. If I'm dryhopping that beer, I will add the dryhops for 3-5 days before packaging.

For something fun to consider, take a look at this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/project-10der-mild-10-milds-10-days-month-10-a-77758/

We did a mild swap where we all made a mild, fermented it out, carbed it up, and sent it out the door by day 10. It was fun to do, and it shows that a beer doesn't need forever to be great!

I'm in the 3 week vocal minority, but it has nothing to do with "Letting the yeast clean things up." For me, it's a pipeline issue. I've gotten to the point where most of my beers sit for about 3 weeks because I'm waiting for a keg to open up. I guess the easy solution would be to buy more kegs, but I have had enough beers I've kegged at 10 days, 2 weeks, etc, that I haven't noticed any discernible difference in the beer. This includes my house Amber I always have on tap that has been kegged in as little as 10 days and as long as a month.

As I said, over-all 3 weeks just seems to be about the time my pipeline works. And on my schedule, I tend to brew when I can, as opposed to brewing because I know a keg will open up in 10 days.

I'm definitely in the camp though that waiting on a beer to "clean up" is not necessary if your brewing methods are proper.

I actually had this discussion with a local pro brewer. They never leave anything in primary for more than 10 days. Then it's right to the serving tanks to carb up for all of their normal gravity beers.

Sorry, went a lot longer than I needed to on this, just wanted to emphasize some of us 3 weekers don't promote it for taste reasons.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Letting the yeast clean up and longer in the primary is beneficial for new folks who aren't aerating properly, aren't pitching enough, and aren't controlling temp. But if you do all those things right, yeah, you can bust them out. Some of my session beers I do 7-10 days in the primary, and then cask them and tap on day 5, making 12-15 days grain to glass. That's naturally carbonated, not kegged though.

 

[butterpants]

Thanks for the info guys! Good timelines to think about.