How does my crush look?

[Horseflesh]

I just got a Kegco 3 roller mill and I’m trying to get my crush set up. Not sure I can trust the numbers etched on the case.

This is a sample with the gap set to about .040, judged by sticking the plastic ruler pictured into the rollers. (Per calipers, it is .040”, but using it as a guide gives me a smaller gap according to the numbers on the mill.)

My goal is to get into the .035-.040 range for a first brew but I could use a sanity check based on the appearance.

My system is e-brew-in-a-basket, with a 1000 micron mesh... so, much more coarse than a bag. I can’t go too fine.

Any thoughts?

 

[day_trippr]

For BIAB you could go a lot tighter...

Cheers!

 

[Horseflesh]

I’m worried about a stuck mash, heh. And I recirculate which will limit me.

Here’s my mesh bottom.

 

[day_trippr]

Ah, missed the "basket", assumed "bag". My bad.
Yeah, you might want to brew a batch with that setting and see how it goes.
Calculate the extract efficiency and weigh that against any troubles recirculating...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

If that ruler is correct, your mesh (openings) are a bit wider than 1000 microns which equals 1.0 mm. At least 1.1 mm, I'd say.

I would give it a run with that grist from your example. It's not too fine, and you have good size husk bits in there, keeping it lush and permeable.
It's a recirculation mash, right, so it can't be too fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

Now, small kernel grain (wheat, rye, etc.) may need a bit finer crush gap than barley. Do some separate milling tests with those, you definitely want to crack them.

 

[bracconiere]

damn looks like you did it with a rolling pin...crush till you're scared man! mine looks like mostly flour and i get away with it with a bazooka tube.....

 

[kh54s10]

damn looks like you did it with a rolling pin...crush till you're scared man! mine looks like mostly flour and i get away with it with a bazooka tube.....

Look at the in between posts.. His basket is not fine in the openings and he is recirculating. Flour in this case would pass through the basket and probably compact hindering re-circulation.

I would go with that and check gravities and efficiencies. The if there is room for improvement, tighten it up a bit until you get circulation problems the back up a bit.

 

[bracconiere]

Look at the in between posts.

i will in the morning, thanks....but in my drubken(SP?, lol) state now, still think that looks like a really coarse crush.....damn i hope all the foreigners and ****, on the opposite side of the planet wish me good nights sleep

 

[Horseflesh]

Thanks guys. I will make a note of this setting and give it a shot.

I need to find some feeler gauges that will reach the gap in this mill so I can really map out what the dial says versus what reality is.

@IslandLizard, good point on other grains. In fact one reason I got a mill is that I like to do wheat beers and efficiency always has suffered with them, presumably due to the inadequate LHBS crush. I will definitely have to figure out a good setting.

Been a while since I had to mess with any of the fundamentals, but it was definitely time to get a mill.

I appreciate your well-lubricated input @bracconiere, heh.

 

[IslandLizard]

A regular credit card is around 0.034". That's what I use on my MM-2 in a converted cooler mash tun, no recirc. Smaller kernels get crushed at 0.026". But your 3-roller mills may give a better, more uniform crush overall in the right speed range.

My LHBS has a 3-roller mill, their crush is very coarse, factory standard 0.045" I reckon. Still, many brewers, including BIAB and Grainfather users, seem to fare well by it, they never look back. Their efficiency probably sucks but nothing an extra pound won't cure.
One couple brewed a wheat beer that did not taste like wheat at all (I thought the wheat part was a "test"). Yup, they had used that mill, and when they milled grain for another batch of wheat, there were a lot of uncrushed wheat kernels in that bag...

 

[bracconiere]

I appreciate your well-lubricated input @bracconiere, heh.

, and a

 

[blizz81]

If that ruler is correct, your mesh (openings) are a bit wider than 1000 microns which equals 1.0 mm. At least 1.1 mm, I'd say.

I would give it a run with that grist from your example. It's not too fine, and you have good size husk bits in there, keeping it lush and permeable.
It's a recirculation mash, right, so it can't be too fine.

That and if the basket needs some lautering help, you could condition the grain.

 

[dwhite60]

Can always condition your grain by spraying it with water before crushing. You just want it damp, use a spray bottle, then let it sit for fifteen minutes or so. Your husks will hold together better allowing you a finer crush but better filtration and flow.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[brewbama]

Can always condition your grain by spraying it with water before crushing. You just want it damp, use a spray bottle, then let it sit for fifteen minutes or so. Your husks will hold together better allowing you a finer crush but better filtration and flow.

All the Best,
D. White

This was my first thought when I saw your crush. Shredding the husks like that aren’t giving to any help with recirculating or lautering. The husks should look nearly whole. Only the kernel should be broken. This way the husks form a filter medium to help you.

As a recommendation: use about 3-4 oz of water on ~10 lb grain: spray it, turn it with your hand, spray it, turn it, etc, etc until you’re out of water. Do this before anything else on brewday and let it sit. Then, when strike water is at correct temp, minerals weighed, pump is primed and ready to fill the MLT, ...literally everything is ready for grain — then crush your grain and add it to your MLT and add strike liquor. I like to hold back half a pound dry grain to run thru after the damp grain to clean the rollers.

Other than that, I think your crush looks fine. Since you recirculate you don’t need flour because you don’t want the wort circulating around the bed. You want it circulating thru it. The constantly moving wort will move thru a loose, permeable bed much easier than a fine, flour bed.

I like to use 1.75/1 water to grist ratio and an easy ~ .7 gpm flow. I believe too fast a flow coupled with too thick a mash (and too fine a crush) will compact the bed. Do whatever else you can to keep your mash beds loose and even (don’t over stir!).

 

[Horseflesh]

Shredding the husks like that aren’t giving to any help with recirculating or lautering.

Is that a gap or a speed issue? I did sample this by hand cranking and if I had to guess, the two cranks it took were maybe 100 RPM.

(For the next brew at least I am hand cranking this baby, it will be a little bit before I find time to figure out the drill situation. Hopefully there's a Harbor Freight sale around Thanksgiving.)

I will look in to conditioning, but I am hoping to find a happy place without extra steps. My first goal is just to get a few more points than I get with the LHBS crush, especially when using wheat.

 

[IslandLizard]

before I find time to figure out the drill situation. Hopefully there's a Harbor Freight sale around Thanksgiving.)

This is the drill you're looking for:
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-Heavy-Duty-Spade-Handle-Drill-63112.html

Sign up for their e-flyers, or check periodically for specials and offers. Super Sale coupons usually stack on specials, IIRC.

 

[IslandLizard]

the two cranks it took were maybe 100 RPM

100 rpm is definitely not too fast. 12-15 inch per second linear milling speed seems to be the (soft) target for most kind of home brew mills. That comes down to ~150 rpm with 1.5" diameter rollers.

Here's a link to a recent post/thread for some ideas on speed, drills, motors, stands, etc.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/questions-for-monster-mill-owners.671710/#post-8710410

 

[bracconiere]

This is the drill you're looking for:
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-Heavy-Duty-Spade-Handle-Drill-63112.html

Sign up for their e-flyers, or check periodically for specials and offers. Super Sale coupons usually stack on specials, IIRC.

i don't think that's the exact model....i got the one with a adjustable speed locking trigger......so i can adjust the speed and mount it....just let it run while i get the strike water going....

 

[IslandLizard]

i don't think that's the exact model....i got the one with a adjustable speed locking trigger......so i can adjust the speed and mount it....just let it run while i get the strike water going....

You're right, it's not. I linked to the currently available model with the same specs. It's the only one with the same low speed range as ours.

Sadly they don't seem to make the adjustable speed locking trigger anymore. I bought mine in 2013.

It may still lock at the set speed. If it doesn't, a zip tie should.
Just plug in and unplug, that's what I do, I don't need to touch the trigger once it's preset.

 

[bracconiere]

You're right, it's not. I linked to the currently available model with the same specs. It's the only one with the same low speed range as ours.

Sadly they don't seem to make the adjustable speed locking trigger anymore. I bought mine in 2013.

damn, i couldn't find it either.....think i might have gotten the last one at the local store too....Jan 2018...

 

[bracconiere]

did see this though....

https://www.amazon.com/TACKLIFE-Ele...65&hvtargid=aud-801738734305:pla-834228195119

or this slower RPM one.....

https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-D10V...peed+trigger+drill&qid=1573604980&s=hi&sr=1-1


(i'm going to have nightmares tonight about hand cranking 21lb's of grain...lol)

 

[IslandLizard]

did see this though....

It has the dial on the trigger, but the specs don't compare.

For our milling purpose it needs to have a low speed/high torque motor design or have a geared speed reducing/torque increasing transfer case.

Ours is of the latter type. 0-550 rpm, which is still a tad fast, but very workable at a bit less than a 1/3 of the max speed under load. You know how it chews through the grain.

 

[bracconiere]

i used to run my old drill held with my hand at low speeds...and that second link says 700RPM and high torque.....?? gotta find a replacement for the 'budget friendly' HF one.....

 

[IslandLizard]

i used to run my old drill held with my hand at low speeds...and that second link says 700RPM and high torque.....?? gotta find a replacement for the 'budget friendly' HF one.....

The 2nd link says: ... 7.0 Amp, 0-2,700 RPM.
3/8" chuck, though.
The newer version (under the Metabo brand now, which has been around in Europe for over 35 years) is a bit cheaper, and comes with free shipping.

What do you need a replacement for? Did it burn out?

 

[IslandLizard]

Here's the hands-off rig I built with the older Low Speed/High Torque model:

 

[bracconiere]

The 2nd link says: ... 7.0 Amp, 0-2,700 RPM.
3/8" chuck, though.
The newer version (under the Metabo brand now, which has been around in Europe for over 35 years) is a bit cheaper, and comes with free shipping.

What do you need a replacement for? Did it burn out?

must have been looking at european money too much, didn't notice the comma as a comma....and no my set-up is still working great, just don't want to go to bed thinking a poor sap is hand cranking grain.....(it takes 5-10 minutes with my drill, and i'm an empathetic person, most of the time)

 

[Iseneye]

If you wanted to crush finer you can line your mash tun with a bag.

 

[Dog House Brew]

You're right, it's not. I linked to the currently available model with the same specs. It's the only one with the same low speed range as ours.

Sadly they don't seem to make the adjustable speed locking trigger anymore. I bought mine in 2013.

It may still lock at the set speed. If it doesn't, a zip tie should.
Just plug in and unplug, that's what I do, I don't need to touch the trigger once it's preset.

My drill wasn’t variable speed. I bout a router speed controller at HF. Plug the drill in and use the rheostat to dial the speed. Works great

 

[WeHeavy]

Looks good to me. What I like is how the husk is still intact and not torn up, that's how you avoid a stuck run-off and the rest looks right.